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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .


    These network pictures clearly show the centrality of the UK in EU negotiations. Germany and France are also close to the centre, but UK officials appear to be the best connected of all the member states’ officials.
    In other words, when it comes to negotiations behind the scenes, before votes take place and before laws are adopted, the data suggest that the UK government is right at the heart of EU policy-making, and certainly at the top table, alongside Germany and France. The data also suggest that the Eurozone crisis has not had any noticeable effect on the centrality of the UK in EU bargaining.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/11/16/uk-influence-in-europe-series-is-the-uk-at-the-top-table-in-eu-negotiations/


    Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
    In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

    One of the most important issues raised during the current Brexit debate is whether the UK is isolated in EU policy-making and, consequently, whether UK can properly influence legislation coming from Brussels. Drawing on a dataset of recorded votes in the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union, the latest VoteWatch Europe’s report provides an answer to those questions.
    The analysis looked at the role played by the UK’s Government and its MEPs in shaping the EU policy over the past 12 years. How often was the UK on the winning side in the EU Council and European Parliament?
    According to our data on voting behaviour in the EU Council, the UK is the most outvoted Member State. However, it has supported the great majority of the EU laws adopted over the last 12 years (more than 97%).

    https://esharp.eu/debates/the-uk-and-europe/analysing-the-uks-influence-in-eu-policy-making
    All very interesting and well researched . Now I look forward to a new chapter , where we don't have to vote for or against policy and fight against the rest of the member nations , but forge our own policies ....you know like we used to , when the Great was still in Great Britain . Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the Brexit party ....embrace change , it can be liberating !
    :)
    We were on the winning side of EU votes 95% of the time.
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354



    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.

    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .

    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.

    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )

    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.


    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .



    These network pictures clearly show the centrality of the UK in EU negotiations. Germany and France are also close to the centre, but UK officials appear to be the best connected of all the member states’ officials.
    In other words, when it comes to negotiations behind the scenes, before votes take place and before laws are adopted, the data suggest that the UK government is right at the heart of EU policy-making, and certainly at the top table, alongside Germany and France. The data also suggest that the Eurozone crisis has not had any noticeable effect on the centrality of the UK in EU bargaining.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/11/16/uk-influence-in-europe-series-is-the-uk-at-the-top-table-in-eu-negotiations/


    Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
    In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

    One of the most important issues raised during the current Brexit debate is whether the UK is isolated in EU policy-making and, consequently, whether UK can properly influence legislation coming from Brussels. Drawing on a dataset of recorded votes in the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union, the latest VoteWatch Europe’s report provides an answer to those questions.
    The analysis looked at the role played by the UK’s Government and its MEPs in shaping the EU policy over the past 12 years. How often was the UK on the winning side in the EU Council and European Parliament?
    According to our data on voting behaviour in the EU Council, the UK is the most outvoted Member State. However, it has supported the great majority of the EU laws adopted over the last 12 years (more than 97%).

    https://esharp.eu/debates/the-uk-and-europe/analysing-the-uks-influence-in-eu-policy-making

    All very interesting and well researched . Now I look forward to a new chapter , where we don't have to vote for or against policy and fight against the rest of the member nations , but forge our own policies ....you know like we used to , when the Great was still in Great Britain . Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the Brexit party ....embrace change , it can be liberating !
    :)

    Great..in Great Britain...sound like some Victorian, Empirical standpoint where we enslaved the world becoming great..

    Now the leave campaign don't 'like' the fact that our colonial approach has come full circle and our Commonwealth citizens and European neighbours and allies are not welcomed

    For the record, most of my family(Northerners) are staunch labour supporters and in favour of a work union and voted leave...when I ask them to consider the European union as not much different to being in their union: collective strength/bargaining power/protection etc etc... I am yet to get one of them to have an answer.. oh yes they want Britain to be GREAT again..they want to go back to the good old days...what decade in recent times was good-ok I'll give you the 60's but..
    20's depression
    30's pre war tensions
    40's war and rationing
    50's continued rationing and unemployment
    70's riots, food and electricity shortages
    80's Union strikes
    90's economic depression

    Great

    No answer was the reply...oh apart from your usual tactic of a personal insult
    @haysie I applaud Haysie for the way he responds(with facts/references) to your diatribe of deflections
  • Options
    MISTY4MEMISTY4ME Member Posts: 6,218
    edited April 2019
    HAYSIE for Prime Minister I say........... or at least Corbyn's job :)

    certainly couldn't do any worse !

    EDIT:.... or how about the 'A' Team of HAYSIE and TiKay (aka TEEKSTER the TWEEKSTER'). I'm sure they could get things sorted....... TiKay always seems to.

    They would certainly get my vote :)
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    MISTY4ME said:

    HAYSIE for Prime Minister I say........... or at least Corbyn's job :)

    certainly couldn't do any worse

    You heard anything about Elaine?
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    MISTY4ME said:

    HAYSIE for Prime Minister I say........... or at least Corbyn's job :)

    certainly couldn't do any worse

    Definitely not applying. Its hard to think anyone could do worse than either of them.
  • Options
    MISTY4MEMISTY4ME Member Posts: 6,218
    HAYSIE said:

    MISTY4ME said:

    HAYSIE for Prime Minister I say........... or at least Corbyn's job :)

    certainly couldn't do any worse

    You heard anything about Elaine?
    No nothing..... What's happened? can you PM me please Tony.
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited April 2019
    No answer was the reply...oh apart from your usual tactic of a personal insult
    @haysie I applaud Haysie for the way he responds(with facts/references) to your diatribe of deflections


    Unlike you @madprof I'm interested in replying to items that interest me , it's not about a trolling mission which you are obv on today .


  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    Jacob Rees-Mogg boils over in live BBC interview after questions over his promotion of far-right German AfD leader



    Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg lost his customary cool during a live BBC interview after being confronted over his promotion of a far-right German leader.
    The anti-EU Conservative had prompted anger after approvingly quoting the leader of the AfD, senior figures from which have called for refugees to be shot.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jacob-rees-mogg-boils-over-in-live-bbc-interview-after-questions-over-his-promotion-of-far-right-german-afd-leader/ar-BBVyVcH?ocid=spartandhp
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg boils over in live BBC interview after questions over his promotion of far-right German AfD leader



    Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg lost his customary cool during a live BBC interview after being confronted over his promotion of a far-right German leader.
    The anti-EU Conservative had prompted anger after approvingly quoting the leader of the AfD, senior figures from which have called for refugees to be shot.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jacob-rees-mogg-boils-over-in-live-bbc-interview-after-questions-over-his-promotion-of-far-right-german-afd-leader/ar-BBVyVcH?ocid=spartandhp

    What has this got to do with Brexit ?.......more mud slinging tactics ...pathetic!
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377



    HAYSIE said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg boils over in live BBC interview after questions over his promotion of far-right German AfD leader



    Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg lost his customary cool during a live BBC interview after being confronted over his promotion of a far-right German leader.
    The anti-EU Conservative had prompted anger after approvingly quoting the leader of the AfD, senior figures from which have called for refugees to be shot.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jacob-rees-mogg-boils-over-in-live-bbc-interview-after-questions-over-his-promotion-of-far-right-german-afd-leader/ar-BBVyVcH?ocid=spartandhp

    What has this got to do with Brexit ?.......more mud slinging tactics ...pathetic!
    Its a fact.
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354
    HAYSIE said:



    HAYSIE said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg boils over in live BBC interview after questions over his promotion of far-right German AfD leader



    Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg lost his customary cool during a live BBC interview after being confronted over his promotion of a far-right German leader.
    The anti-EU Conservative had prompted anger after approvingly quoting the leader of the AfD, senior figures from which have called for refugees to be shot.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jacob-rees-mogg-boils-over-in-live-bbc-interview-after-questions-over-his-promotion-of-far-right-german-afd-leader/ar-BBVyVcH?ocid=spartandhp

    What has this got to do with Brexit ?.......more mud slinging tactics ...pathetic!
    Its a fact.
    When have facts ever got in the way of this 'meaningful 'dialogue??
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377

















    A day after Jeremy Corbyn met Theresa May for talks over Brexit, several papers picture the Labour leader giving the thumbs-up on their front pages.
    "Corbyn in the Brexit driving seat," is the Daily Telegraph's headline, though it adds: "To the fury of Tory backbenchers..."
    The Metro front page suggests "it's good to talk", but other papers aren't so sure.
    According to the Times, there's growing scepticism that the PM and the Labour leader can find a way through Brexit.
    It says sources on both sides are downbeat about the chances of success.
    The Sun says the two leaders remain far apart, while, in the view of the Financial Times, any chance of an agreement is slim.
    Labour's leader has long sought to distance himself from a "Tory Brexit", the paper says, and has little incentive to midwife one now.
    For the Daily Express, Mr Corbyn is expected to revel in his opportunity to lecture the PM about his vision of a socialist Europe.



    The Telegraph says Attorney General Geoffrey Cox has set alarm bells ringing among Tory Eurosceptics by saying in a BBC interview that "a customs union is not some kind of sell-out".
    MPs at a meeting of backbenchers were so angry about this that they discussed holding an "indicative vote" on whether to tell Mrs May to resign, the paper reports.
    The Times says Brexiteers in the cabinet are understood to be waiting until Mrs May makes firm decisions on whether to endorse a softer Brexit before they decide their futures.
    But the Guardian is unimpressed by their reaction.
    "It is fair to question whether such dialogue can be fruitful, or is undertaken in sincerity by either side," its editorial argues.
    "But many Tory MPs have condemned Mrs May for the mere fact of engaging with the Labour leader on the grounds that doing so bolsters his authority in the public eye."

    The Guardian also suggests there's a connection between what it calls the temperature of Westminster politics and the video showing British soldiers in Afghanistan using a picture of Jeremy Corbyn's face for target practice.
    For too long, the paper says, there has been too much use of violent rhetoric and gruesome imagery; too much talk of betrayal, sabotage, treason, back-stabbing and blowing things up.
    The Daily Mail says the episode has tarnished the Army's hard-won reputation.
    In these febrile times, the paper adds, when politicians receive death threats, utmost care mist be taken not to legitimise the warped worldview of those who might resort to violence.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47809577
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    TORIES AT WAR: Theresa May faces Tory mutiny over Corbyn alliance – ‘She needs to go now’
    THERESA May was facing a growing Tory mutiny last night after pressing ahead with her attempt to thrash out a soft Brexit compromise with Jeremy Corbyn.





    The Prime Minister met the Labour leader to discuss his demands for the UK to stay in an EU customs union after Brexit. Aides described the talks, which lasted over an hour, as “constructive”. But senior Tories were understood to be braced for a string of resignations by Brexiteer Cabinet ministers if signs of too many concessions to the hard-Left opposition leader emerge while MPs warned that the party’s grassroots were in uproar. Two junior ministers quit the Government in protest at the move towards a softer Brexit and Mrs May was forced to endure open criticism from five Tory MP at Prime Minister’s Questions in the Commons.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1109486/brexit-news-latest-theresa-may-leadership-tories-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-deal-eu
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    Final Say: Hammond says ‘confirmatory referendum’ deserves to be tested in Parliament
    Chancellor describes option of taking Brexit deal to public vote as ‘perfectly credible proposition’





    Philip Hammond has said there is a “perfectly credible” case for giving the British people a Final Say on Brexit.
    The chancellor suggested although he was unsure there was currently a majority in parliament to allow for a second public vote to be facilitated, it “deserved to be tested”.

    Asked on ITV’s Peston programme about negotiations between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn aimed at breaking the Brexit deadlock in Parliament, Mr Hammond refused to be drawn on details of the talks.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/philip-hammond-brexit-second-referendum-final-say-video-interview-support-a8853941.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    Three quarters of Corbyn’s constituents back Final Say on Brexit, poll reveals, with Labour leader under pressure from party to secure new referendum
    Fresh data suggests 58 per cent of British public now want second referendum





    Three quarters of Jeremy Corbyn’s own constituents back a Final Say referendum on Brexit, new polling has revealed, as the Labour leader faces pressure from within his parliamentary party to back a second vote.
    A nationwide survey of 9,500 people conducted by campaign group Right to Vote found 58.1 per cent who expressed a view, now want another public vote on the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union.

    Polling found high levels of support for the idea in London, including in Mr Corbyn’s Islington North seat, where 75 per cent of those polled backed a Final Say.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-brexit-final-say-second-referendum-poll-constituents-survey-islington-north-a8853841.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    Corbyn, we urge him to make a referendum his bottom line in talks with Theresa May
    The only way to guarantee jobs, rights and protections - and Labour’s reputation with its membership and the electorate - is to support a confirmatory public vote on any option which is agreed by parliament


    Clive Lewis
    Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Kate Osamor, Alex Sobel, Marsha de Cordova, Anneliese Dodds, Rosie Duffield, Anna McMorrin, Luke Pollard, Rachael Maskell, Ged Killen, Ruth George




    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-talks-brexit-referendum-labour-mps-public-vote-a8853311.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    Brexit: Labour heading for bust-up as top party figures demand Jeremy Corbyn secure referendum in talks with Theresa May
    Exclusive: Eleven MPs including four frontbenchers have said it is ‘untenable’ that Labour does not make a public vote a fixed demand from the prime minister



    Labour is on the brink of a major bust-up if Jeremy Corbyn fails to demand a second referendum as the price for any Brexit deal struck with Theresa May.
    A string of senior figures – including shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry – believe securing a public vote is an absolute must, while 11 MPs, including four frontbenchers, have written an open letter to Mr Corbyn in The Independent saying “it would be untenable for Labour not to insist” on one.

    As Mr Corbyn was in the prime minister’s office holding the talks, one of his party’s biggest trade union backers also endorsed a motion calling for a confirmatory referendum on any deal.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/may-corbyn-brexit-talks-labour-demand-referendum-a8853466.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    Brexit LIVE: Thornberry DEMANDS another EU referendum as price of Labour working with May
    LABOUR arch Remainer Emily Thornberry has demanded a second EU referendum in exchange for Prime Minister Theresa May teaming up with Jeremy Corbyn over Brexit.




    In an open letter published by New Statesman, she told her Labour comrades that “Any deal must be subject to a public vote”. The letter came an hour after Labour leader Mr Corbyn said talks with Mrs May went “very well” and that he expected to meet with her again for more negotiations on Brexit. The letter adds: I won’t be able to be at the Emergency Shadow Cabinet later. But assuming one of the main topics of discussion will be whether to insist that any proposed compromise deal we agree to support will be subject to a confirmatory public vote, with “Remain” as the other alternative.”

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1109066/brexit-news-latest-no-deal-vote-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-EU-customs-union
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
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