The Labour Party policy seems to be that they will continue to call for no confidence votes, despite the unlikelihood of winning one, the ticking clock, and the overwhelming support of their members, their MPs, and their voters for a second referendum.
Are they going to wait until we leave before the leadership gets behind a second referendum?
I saw an interesting interview on Sky News yesterday, with an SNP MP. The SNP have 35 MPs, and they were one of the first parties to call for a second referendum.
The interviewer suggested that they should tell Labour that they would not support them on any future no confidence votes. This would make it virtually impossible for Labour to win one. If the SNP had voted with The Government yesterday the result would have been 360 against 271.
This would have surely been a discouragement for Labour to continue with this policy, and immediately move them on to the second referendum before it is too late,
It is difficult to see why this plan would not be effective, yet the MP didn't think that they could vote with The Government.
They clearly don't understand politics.
More chance of me winning the nobel prize for literature than that scenario happening .
Nicola Sturgeon ✔ @NicolaSturgeon So everything is not on the table. PM’s offer of talks is a promise to listen, but only if we all agree with her. @theSNP won’t be complicit in more time wasting. Rule out no deal, be prepared to extend Art 50 and agree to at least consider another referendum - then we’ll talk.
The SNP policy on Brexit is to get a second referendum.
Any chance of achieving this will require labour support.
Labour policy is sequenced, no confidence votes to get a General Election, followed by a second referendum.
An effective way of stopping the no confidence votes, would be for The SNP to stop supporting Labour in these votes, as they would then rule out any chance of Labour winning one.
So this would undoubtedly be the most effective way of The SNP achieving their goal.
Really ...you been in private talks with Corbyn ? ....haven't seen anywhere , where he's said it's the intention of the labour party to support a 2nd referendum . The grass roots membership might be in favour of one , but he hasn't clarified Labours stance.
LABOUR CHAOS: Now Corbyn DOES want second Brexit referendum LABOUR has delved further into Brexit chaos after Jeremy Corbyn signalled that the party would hold a second referendum - days after his Brexit secretary ruled out another vote.
Labour will inevitably back second Brexit referendum, says McDonnell
John McDonnell has said Labour will “inevitably” back a second referendum if the party is unable to force a general election, in comments widely regarded as marking a shift in Labour’s position.
The Labour Party policy seems to be that they will continue to call for no confidence votes, despite the unlikelihood of winning one, the ticking clock, and the overwhelming support of their members, their MPs, and their voters for a second referendum.
Are they going to wait until we leave before the leadership gets behind a second referendum?
I saw an interesting interview on Sky News yesterday, with an SNP MP. The SNP have 35 MPs, and they were one of the first parties to call for a second referendum.
The interviewer suggested that they should tell Labour that they would not support them on any future no confidence votes. This would make it virtually impossible for Labour to win one. If the SNP had voted with The Government yesterday the result would have been 360 against 271.
This would have surely been a discouragement for Labour to continue with this policy, and immediately move them on to the second referendum before it is too late,
It is difficult to see why this plan would not be effective, yet the MP didn't think that they could vote with The Government.
They clearly don't understand politics.
More chance of me winning the nobel prize for literature than that scenario happening .
Nicola Sturgeon ✔ @NicolaSturgeon So everything is not on the table. PM’s offer of talks is a promise to listen, but only if we all agree with her. @theSNP won’t be complicit in more time wasting. Rule out no deal, be prepared to extend Art 50 and agree to at least consider another referendum - then we’ll talk.
The SNP policy on Brexit is to get a second referendum.
Any chance of achieving this will require labour support.
Labour policy is sequenced, no confidence votes to get a General Election, followed by a second referendum.
An effective way of stopping the no confidence votes, would be for The SNP to stop supporting Labour in these votes, as they would then rule out any chance of Labour winning one.
So this would undoubtedly be the most effective way of The SNP achieving their goal.
Really ...you been in private talks with Corbyn ? ....haven't seen anywhere , where he's said it's the intention of the labour party to support a 2nd referendum . The grass roots membership might be in favour of one , but he hasn't clarified Labours stance.
LABOUR CHAOS: Now Corbyn DOES want second Brexit referendum LABOUR has delved further into Brexit chaos after Jeremy Corbyn signalled that the party would hold a second referendum - days after his Brexit secretary ruled out another vote.
Yea , if in the eventuality that labours brexit proposals were blocked and they can't force a GE...At least he is prepared to move stance in order to try and resolve this mess , that the tories have created . Where exactly is the movement from May? ...and why would she not just simply rule out a no deal brexit option? , which can't be beneficial to either the UK or the EU . Don't see any chaos , just a leader trying his best to come up with a solution .
The Labour Party policy seems to be that they will continue to call for no confidence votes, despite the unlikelihood of winning one, the ticking clock, and the overwhelming support of their members, their MPs, and their voters for a second referendum.
Are they going to wait until we leave before the leadership gets behind a second referendum?
I saw an interesting interview on Sky News yesterday, with an SNP MP. The SNP have 35 MPs, and they were one of the first parties to call for a second referendum.
The interviewer suggested that they should tell Labour that they would not support them on any future no confidence votes. This would make it virtually impossible for Labour to win one. If the SNP had voted with The Government yesterday the result would have been 360 against 271.
This would have surely been a discouragement for Labour to continue with this policy, and immediately move them on to the second referendum before it is too late,
It is difficult to see why this plan would not be effective, yet the MP didn't think that they could vote with The Government.
They clearly don't understand politics.
More chance of me winning the nobel prize for literature than that scenario happening .
Nicola Sturgeon ✔ @NicolaSturgeon So everything is not on the table. PM’s offer of talks is a promise to listen, but only if we all agree with her. @theSNP won’t be complicit in more time wasting. Rule out no deal, be prepared to extend Art 50 and agree to at least consider another referendum - then we’ll talk.
The SNP policy on Brexit is to get a second referendum.
Any chance of achieving this will require labour support.
Labour policy is sequenced, no confidence votes to get a General Election, followed by a second referendum.
An effective way of stopping the no confidence votes, would be for The SNP to stop supporting Labour in these votes, as they would then rule out any chance of Labour winning one.
So this would undoubtedly be the most effective way of The SNP achieving their goal.
Really ...you been in private talks with Corbyn ? ....haven't seen anywhere , where he's said it's the intention of the labour party to support a 2nd referendum . The grass roots membership might be in favour of one , but he hasn't clarified Labours stance.
LABOUR CHAOS: Now Corbyn DOES want second Brexit referendum LABOUR has delved further into Brexit chaos after Jeremy Corbyn signalled that the party would hold a second referendum - days after his Brexit secretary ruled out another vote.
Yea , if in the eventuality that labours brexit proposals were blocked and they can't force a GE...At least he is prepared to move stance in order to try and resolve this mess , that the tories have created . Where exactly is the movement from May? ...and why would she simply rule out a no deal brexit option? , which can't be beneficial to either the UK or the EU . Don't see any chaos , just a leader trying his best to come up with a solution .
Firstly the Labour Party plan on Brexit is a complete fantasy.
As the no confidence vote this week showed, they are unlikely to win one.
99.9% of the time no confidence votes go along party lines.
The DUP voted against The Government in The Meaningful Vote, because they will never support The Backstop, but a day later, supported The Government in the no confidence vote.
The Labour policy which has been stated many times is to pursue their preference of a General Election, followed by a second referendum.
Many of their supporters were under the impression that after a no confidence vote, that they would support the second referendum.
They have created much disappointment by deciding to continue to pursue no confidence votes, despite the fact that they are unlikely to win one, rather than switching to supporting a second referendum.
Close to 90% of their members are in favour of remaining, and over 70% in favour of a second referendum.
In the spirit of democracy they handed over their policy decisions to their membership. Yet the leader has contrary views, which he is pursuing.
Keir Starmer received a standing ovation at their Conference, when he changed his speech, subsequent to Corbyn approval, calling for a second referendum, with remain on the ballot.
The Tory negotiations have been a disgrace, and her wish to consult other parties is absolutely pointless unless she is prepared to alter her position, which currently seems unlikely.
The Tories have only been allowed to get us into the current mess, through a lack of a competent Labour opposition.
They are one as bad as the other.
I think the current situation is summarised by the fact that even though The Tory Government have shown themselves to be completely incompetent throughout the Brexit negotiations, culminating with them losing The Meaningful Vote by the biggest margin in history, they are still 6 points clear of Labour in the polls.
If Labour had a competent leader they would be 20 points in front.
Corbyn has not changed his view, altered his stance, and their policy remains a fantasy.
A no deal Brexit can easily ruled out as it seems to be the only thing that Parliament has a majority in favour of.
One of the pundits on Sky News this morning speculated that a no deal Brexit would command around 50 votes in The House of Commons.
Indicative votes in Parliament on the various options may rule out the impossible, and concentrate their minds on what is possible.
Whilst all options are available it may be impossible to get a majority to vote for any particular plan.
Labour Policy. One of their 6 tests to approve any deal, is that we must have exactly the same benefits as non members that we currently have as members. Any normal person would think that this would be impossible. The EU have said that this is impossible.
They want to be in The Customs Union, but retain the right to sign independent trade deals with other countries. EU rules prohibit this to all members. Why on earth would they allow non members to do something that they don't allow members to do.
In addition to this they are demanding a say on the future trade deals The EU do with other countries. Why would they do that?
One of the commitments that Single Market members have is Freedom of Movement. The Labour Party want Single Market membership, but no Freedom of Movement.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
Corbyn's decision not to meet PM 'is matter of trust' The World at One
BBC Radio 4
Labour MP Tony Lloyd, who is the party's shadow Northern Ireland secretary, responded to criticism of his leader Jeremy Corbyn, who has refused to join Theresa May's discussions.
Mr Lloyd told BBC Radio 4: "In the end this is a matter of trust. The track record of Theresa May is that at every level she's had to be dragged kicking and screaming into dialogue even with her own cabinet, let alone with Parliament and the country.
"The reality at the moment is this - we've got to build trust that the prime minister is negotiating in good faith. The whole of Parliament would vote against a no-deal Brexit, including huge number of Conservative MPs, including members of her cabinet.
"On that basis, ruling out no-deal Brexit actually says that we begin the conversations that this isn't going to be a return to 'it's my deal or no-deal' because that's the dangerous thing for the country".
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
I think that is a must, and as I said in a post earlier it would be good to rule out what cant get through, as a mean to concentrate on what could. All those keen on a no deal would have to then abstain or support a deal.
Corbyn's decision not to meet PM 'is matter of trust' The World at One
BBC Radio 4
Labour MP Tony Lloyd, who is the party's shadow Northern Ireland secretary, responded to criticism of his leader Jeremy Corbyn, who has refused to join Theresa May's discussions.
Mr Lloyd told BBC Radio 4: "In the end this is a matter of trust. The track record of Theresa May is that at every level she's had to be dragged kicking and screaming into dialogue even with her own cabinet, let alone with Parliament and the country.
"The reality at the moment is this - we've got to build trust that the prime minister is negotiating in good faith. The whole of Parliament would vote against a no-deal Brexit, including huge number of Conservative MPs, including members of her cabinet.
"On that basis, ruling out no-deal Brexit actually says that we begin the conversations that this isn't going to be a return to 'it's my deal or no-deal' because that's the dangerous thing for the country".
I think that he will be criticised by many for not talking. Had he gone along and said what he has to say to her face to face, her could have put his point of view, but looked willing, and come out of it in a better light.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
What policy is he refusing to implement ?...grass root opinion is not policy.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
A number of Labour MPs are visiting The Pm against Corbyns specific orders.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
What policy is he refusing to implement ?...grass root opinion is not policy.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
What policy is he refusing to implement ?...grass root opinion is not policy.
He clearly doesn't want a second referendum, which was agreed at their conference.
Is that the best you can come up with ? come on Haysie ..to start with , If you listened and watched the conference earlier you would know full well that he clearly said that was on the cards as an option ....If you are going to make ridiculous accusations that he is not implementing policy , then at least back it up with substance .
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
What policy is he refusing to implement ?...grass root opinion is not policy.
In amidst all of that Labour bashing conservative rhetoric in the posts above ..I'm still waiting for you or any sensible person to tell me , why May wouldn't rule out a no brexit deal and by consequence open up meaningful cross party brexit talk ?
The posts above highlight Labours policy, which Corbyn is refusing to implement.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
A number of Labour MPs are visiting The Pm against Corbyns specific orders.
To be honest ....everyone should be more concerned about the complete ineptitude of May and her government in delivering a Brexit deal that the country voted for , rather that trying to pick holes in the opposition .
Comments
LABOUR has delved further into Brexit chaos after Jeremy Corbyn signalled that the party would hold a second referendum - days after his Brexit secretary ruled out another vote.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/887341/labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-news-brexit-referendum-portugal-european-union-socialist
John McDonnell has said Labour will “inevitably” back a second referendum if the party is unable to force a general election, in comments widely regarded as marking a shift in Labour’s position.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/28/labour-seize-second-brexit-vote-option-john-mcdonnell
As the no confidence vote this week showed, they are unlikely to win one.
99.9% of the time no confidence votes go along party lines.
The DUP voted against The Government in The Meaningful Vote, because they will never support The Backstop, but a day later, supported The Government in the no confidence vote.
The Labour policy which has been stated many times is to pursue their preference of a General Election, followed by a second referendum.
Many of their supporters were under the impression that after a no confidence vote, that they would support the second referendum.
They have created much disappointment by deciding to continue to pursue no confidence votes, despite the fact that they are unlikely to win one, rather than switching to supporting a second referendum.
Close to 90% of their members are in favour of remaining, and over 70% in favour of a second referendum.
In the spirit of democracy they handed over their policy decisions to their membership. Yet the leader has contrary views, which he is pursuing.
Keir Starmer received a standing ovation at their Conference, when he changed his speech, subsequent to Corbyn approval, calling for a second referendum, with remain on the ballot.
The Tory negotiations have been a disgrace, and her wish to consult other parties is absolutely pointless unless she is prepared to alter her position, which currently seems unlikely.
The Tories have only been allowed to get us into the current mess, through a lack of a competent Labour opposition.
They are one as bad as the other.
I think the current situation is summarised by the fact that even though The Tory Government have shown themselves to be completely incompetent throughout the Brexit negotiations, culminating with them losing The Meaningful Vote by the biggest margin in history, they are still 6 points clear of Labour in the polls.
If Labour had a competent leader they would be 20 points in front.
Corbyn has not changed his view, altered his stance, and their policy remains a fantasy.
A no deal Brexit can easily ruled out as it seems to be the only thing that Parliament has a majority in favour of.
One of the pundits on Sky News this morning speculated that a no deal Brexit would command around 50 votes in The House of Commons.
Indicative votes in Parliament on the various options may rule out the impossible, and concentrate their minds on what is possible.
Whilst all options are available it may be impossible to get a majority to vote for any particular plan.
One of their 6 tests to approve any deal, is that we must have exactly the same benefits as non members that we currently have as members. Any normal person would think that this would be impossible. The EU have said that this is impossible.
They want to be in The Customs Union, but retain the right to sign independent trade deals with other countries. EU rules prohibit this to all members. Why on earth would they allow non members to do something that they don't allow members to do.
In addition to this they are demanding a say on the future trade deals The EU do with other countries. Why would they do that?
One of the commitments that Single Market members have is Freedom of Movement. The Labour Party want Single Market membership, but no Freedom of Movement.
The World at One
BBC Radio 4
Labour MP Tony Lloyd, who is the party's shadow Northern Ireland secretary, responded to criticism of his leader Jeremy Corbyn, who has refused to join Theresa May's discussions.
Mr Lloyd told BBC Radio 4: "In the end this is a matter of trust. The track record of Theresa May is that at every level she's had to be dragged kicking and screaming into dialogue even with her own cabinet, let alone with Parliament and the country.
"The reality at the moment is this - we've got to build trust that the prime minister is negotiating in good faith. The whole of Parliament would vote against a no-deal Brexit, including huge number of Conservative MPs, including members of her cabinet.
"On that basis, ruling out no-deal Brexit actually says that we begin the conversations that this isn't going to be a return to 'it's my deal or no-deal' because that's the dangerous thing for the country".
All those keen on a no deal would have to then abstain or support a deal.
Had he gone along and said what he has to say to her face to face, her could have put his point of view, but looked willing, and come out of it in a better light.
A party with a majority of pro EU members, voters, and MPs, was likely to have problems being led by a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Maybe the negotiations would have gone better had The Tories chosen a leader who had been a leave voter.
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/