Unless you have some super sick reads then JJ is a shove. I am not sure what your thought process is with calling and then shoving. Are we just putting them on AK?
With the AJo hand as HHY said we need to raise LOADS more if we want to thin the field or win the dead money. Generally, limpers want to see a cheap flop so we need to punish them for this. If we don't raise enough then once you get a call you start giving players great odds to call with their small pairs/suited connectors etc that they want to see a flop with. Once the hand goes to the flop with so many players we need to hit pretty hard to put a lot more money in.
With the AJ suited I think it depends on the board, this board hits the bb calling range a lot more than our opening range so I might check flop. Playing draws aggressively gives us two ways to win but we don't always need to play them this way.
This game is so frustrating at times. I'm trying my best to improve, but it's hard to tell if I am or not due to having such a small sample size right now (78 games played). The sharkscope graph is showing a worrying trend though ..
I wouldn't try and see anything in a sample size of 78 games. When you make adjustments to your game and as hard as it is you should ignore results to some extent and try and play every hand to the best of your ability. You wont play every hand perfectly so learn from your mistakes. Look at the hands you win as well as the ones you lose. Sometimes you win a hand but you have made some fundamental errors but got lucky so it is important to recognise this. 1 or 2 results can effect a 78 games sample massively.
Hi Peter. Its good that you are interested in getting better at the game. Everybody has to start somewhere. Currently it feels like your thought process is quite flawed. In the JJ hand you confess to being 'spooked' by the guy who 3x'd it under the gun and justify flatting Jacks because your scared he has a better hand, so you were clearly worried he might have QQ KK or AA. On the 763 flop you proceed to just bet all in into him, when all these hands you were scared of all still beat you. All you have achieved here is letting him realise his equity preflop by not going all in, not allowing him to bluff by betting all your chips before he can act, and get him to call with the same hands that beat you preflop. This is the exact opposite of what you want to achieve. In general you want to do a lot of checking on these boards against the pre-flop raiser as they have a stronger range than you do as the caller, because they can still have all the big pairs whereas you cant as you'd have raised him all in preflop, so they are allowed to bet more often. If you decided you were willing to go with it on the flop you should have checked to him first to give him chance to bluff and then gone all in. FWIW you should have just put the chips in pre.
It is surprising to see another hand history where you put in 100 blinds with AJ on a KKxA board where many people saw a flop (which means people are more likely to have hit a good hand), considering how tightly you played the JJ hand for 15 blinds. It seems to me that maybe you are thinking in terms of chips and not blinds, which a lot of new players make the mistake of doing. and is the exact wrong way to think about poker. How many blinds you have is much more significant in how you should play your cards.
The best players are the ones making the aggressive actions, and it seems like you like to play on the passive side, as the caller. Remember being aggressive gives you two ways to win, you can bet them off the pot or just have the best hand. You don't want uncontrolled random aggression though, you need to learn when to be aggressive and it takes time to understand and master. If you are serious about getting better I recommend doing some research into the game. When I started out i found 'gripsed' video's on youtube which helped me become a winning player. Dan Harrington's books are also good for more beginner players. Some people find trying to improve in this way too much effort, or see it as sucking fun out of the game, and if your ones of those just play poker the way you want at stakes you can afford to play, it's something to do for personal enjoyment after all.
The best players are the ones making the aggressive actions, and it seems like you like to play on the passive side, as the caller. Remember being aggressive gives you two ways to win, you can bet them off the pot or just have the best hand. You don't want uncontrolled random aggression though, you need to learn when to be aggressive and it takes time to understand and master. If you are serious about getting better I recommend doing some research into the game. When I started out i found 'gripsed' video's on youtube which helped me become a winning player. Dan Harrington's books are also good for more beginner players. Some people find trying to improve in this way too much effort, or see it as sucking fun out of the game, and if your ones of those just play poker the way you want at stakes you can afford to play, it's something to do for personal enjoyment after all.
I took this advice on board, and much to my surprise, playing aggressively felt much more natural to me. In fact, it allowed me to get my first "big" result. 2nd out of 45 players in a £150 freezeout. Very happy with that. Only a sample size of one, but nevertheless - a nice confidence boost. I actually already have Dan Harrington's books, they're gathering dust! I'll dig them out.
What I consider the key hand of that tournament was this lay down. Thoughts? I had no real reads on the opponent, however this was unusual play. He hadn't been aggressive at all up to this point. The way it's played, I had him on AK, with the check on the flop for deception. I seem to be finding that it's quite common people at the low stakes don't seem to c-bet when they have hit an ace on the flop.
Another hand from that tournament; I would be interested to know what range of hands you would put the player on down all streets.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
Smasholot
Small blind
40.00
40.00
1520.00
bigchef718
Big blind
80.00
120.00
3141.25
Your hole cards
Q
Q
hector45
Fold
sinjam
Call
80.00
200.00
2332.50
Bunski
Fold
peter27
Raise
320.00
520.00
3882.50
Smasholot
Fold
bigchef718
Call
240.00
760.00
2901.25
sinjam
Fold
Flop
5
2
3
bigchef718
Bet
240.00
1000.00
2661.25
peter27
Call
240.00
1240.00
3642.50
Turn
6
bigchef718
Bet
400.00
1640.00
2261.25
peter27
Call
400.00
2040.00
3242.50
River
8
bigchef718
Bet
800.00
2840.00
1461.25
peter27
Call
800.00
3640.00
2442.50
bigchef718
Show
8
K
peter27
Show
Q
Q
peter27
Win
Pair of Queens
3640.00
6082.50
I feel like my pre-flop play was good, but on the flop I think I made a mistake by just calling. Clearly I was worried about the straight (A4) and wanted to get to the river as cheaply as possible. What was the correct play on the flop?
The Ace Jack hand is a spot where in theory we should never be folding, we have called his raise to make the kind of hand we have and we have also checked the flop making it look like we don't have the ace ourselves. Ace Jack is also perhaps the strongest ace we have, if ace queen+ you move in with pre. However we also need to think about what hands he could take this line with as a bluff. The types of hands he is representing preflop that we beat, tens jacks and queens, would be consistent with a flop check but are very unlikely to bet like this on the turn, so we need to beat some very specific hands that he bluffed with preflop like QT, QJ, that didn't bet flop, which are unlikely. The only problem is he could potentially be betting Ace Ten and Ace Jack for value himself. Maybe he even believes a hand like KQ is good so bets big with it, it is difficult to know what other people are thinking, but a mistake people often make is assuming players play hands like they would. It is quite a tough spot. I would probably lean to calling down, make a note of what he had and maybe start making some tight folds against him in the future if he shows you the goods. I think our hand is slightly too good, even if it isn't a situation that we love. A lot of it depends on if he bets worse hands for value. If you think the player is aggressive enough you could also consider going all in preflop too, we have a very strong hand to be raising on the button.
The second hand is less interesting, and is just a simple raise get it in. People donk out with all sorts. He can easily have a 5 or pocket pair higher than 5s that he bets and goes with when you raise. People also like to slow play when they make strong hands like sets and straights which make them less likely, if he has you beat here then its your time to get knocked out. QQ is a little too vulnerable to not raise get it in with, but I would like to flat AA exactly as there are really no scary runouts for it, and we can keep all his random bluffs in.
Thanks for your post, it was very helpful. However, I am extremely surprised to hear you say that (above). There are situations where I would agree, but on the whole, that seems loose to me. AA, AK, KK yes, but AQ? Maybe if it's suited. Or, maybe I'm just too tight.
Over the last week or so I've made a few small changes to my game, but they seem to be making a significant difference. I feel like I'm playing well for the most part, albeit with a few silly mistakes.
Today was a very good day. I came 3rd out of 156 in the bronze £1,000 turbo bounty hunter, and I also won a £100 freezeout tournament.
After 122 games I am showing -£6.47. However, my "ability" rating on Sharkscope is up to 60, which is as high as it has ever been since the start of this diary. I'm not sure how accurate that is exactly, but it's at least showing progression.
What percentage of the time do the top players cash in MTT's exactly?
Anyways, this is a hand from Thursday's £1,500 UKOPS rewards freeroll. Did I make a mistake here, or is that just one of those times when a loss of chips can't be helped?
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
SQILLA
Small blind
75.00
75.00
4640.00
apoptosis8
Big blind
150.00
225.00
8490.00
Your hole cards
A
10
The_Laird
Fold
TopMan12
Fold
peter27
Raise
330.00
555.00
1495.00
denty765
Fold
SQILLA
Fold
apoptosis8
Call
180.00
735.00
8310.00
Flop
J
3
2
apoptosis8
Check
peter27
Bet
400.00
1135.00
1095.00
apoptosis8
All-in
8310.00
9445.00
0.00
peter27
Fold
apoptosis8
Muck
apoptosis8
Win
1535.00
1535.00
apoptosis8
Return
7910.00
0.00
9445.00
Meanwhile, I had the privilege of being on the table with this guy earlier today. Based on the things he was saying in chat, he's a considerably better player than everyone else and he's not afraid to let everyone know that. His advice was effectively that some of us are so bad there's no point in us playing at all. Funny how he only seemed to moan after he got beaten in a hand, but I'm sure he knows best. What a delightful character.
Thanks for your post, it was very helpful. However, I am extremely surprised to hear you say that (above). There are situations where I would agree, but on the whole, that seems loose to me. AA, AK, KK yes, but AQ? Maybe if it's suited. Or, maybe I'm just too tight.
I don't think there is a 'maybe' about it!
That's 2 examples now (JJ and an in theory AQ) where it would be absolutely standard to move all in pre but for some reason you think it to be ''too loose''. Yet in other hands, you stack off when it is rather obvious you are beat (The AJ on the KKx board example). So backwards
I also really wouldn't pay too much attention to your scope ability, or to your profit/loss over such a small sample of 122 games. I'd just concentrate on making the best in game decisions with the information available.
Before you say I'm too loose, AT is an easy jam above.
Thanks for your post, it was very helpful. However, I am extremely surprised to hear you say that (above). There are situations where I would agree, but on the whole, that seems loose to me. AA, AK, KK yes, but AQ? Maybe if it's suited. Or, maybe I'm just too tight.
I don't think there is a 'maybe' about it!
That's 2 examples now (JJ and an in theory AQ) where it would be absolutely standard to move all in pre but for some reason you think it to be ''too loose''. Yet in other hands, you stack off when it is rather obvious you are beat (The AJ on the KKx board example). So backwards
I also really wouldn't pay too much attention to your scope ability, or to your profit/loss over such a small sample of 122 games. I'd just concentrate on making the best in game decisions with the information available.
Before you say I'm too loose, AT is an easy jam above.
I can see the argument for AT above being an easy jam because of my stack size at the time. But, let's say that I had an average stack. That wouldn't then be a spot to jam, right? Just trying to get my head around the thought process.
I am focussing on making the correct decisions of course, but it's hard not to look at sharkscope too. The problem with this game is that there is no feedback loop. I'm achieving good results in MTT's over the last couple of days, and while I feel like I am playing well for the most part, there's still some doubt in my mind about whether or not I'm just getting lucky. It's difficult to pinpoint just how well I'm doing.
Nevertheless, it is going very well tonight. I finished 7th in a bronze £500 freezeout, and just won a £150 turbo freezeout. For those wondering, 90% of the time I'm one tabling only. I did try two tabling briefly, but I struggled to keep up with the play. That'll come with more experience though I imagine.
Hey Peter. Just had a read through this, very good read and nice to see your results improving and you're taking the good advice you are getting from the better players on board.
For the AT hand, as a rule of thumb with 10 big blinds we don't want to be messing about with min raises, keep it simple and shove or fold, you could try and be sneaky with AA though . Might be worth taking a look at an app called 'SnapShove' that showes different ranges for shoving / folding with different table positions and stack sizes.
With regards to cashing I would expect a good player to be cashing 1 in 5 at a guess, although you want to be aiming for the top 3 as that is where the big money is. Min-cashing 1 in 5 isn't a lot of good.
Hey Peter. Just had a read through this, very good read and nice to see your results improving and you're taking the good advice you are getting from the better players on board.
For the AT hand, as a rule of thumb with 10 big blinds we don't want to be messing about with min raises, keep it simple and shove or fold, you could try and be sneaky with AA though . Might be worth taking a look at an app called 'SnapShove' that showes different ranges for shoving / folding with different table positions and stack sizes.
With regards to cashing I would expect a good player to be cashing 1 in 5 at a guess, although you want to be aiming for the top 3 as that is where the big money is. Min-cashing 1 in 5 isn't a lot of good.
Cheers Greg.
I'll check SnapShove out, cheers.
I actually took last week "off" from poker due to work. Came back yesterday/today and really struggling to get my head back in the game. Playing dreadfully right now. Will keep trying.
So I mentioned that my play was fairly poor this weekend, it also started quite badly today too. However, I managed to focus towards the end of tonight and finished 3rd out of 66 in a Bronze £500 Freezeout for £60. It does concern me that I apparently have no consistency whatsoever though ..
It's my target this week to be in the top ten on the bronze leaderboard, but let's see how that plays out. I'll be missing tomorrow's tournaments also which makes things a bit more challenging.
An interesting dynamic is arising between myself and one of the forum regulars. The person in question (I'm sure they'll read this) was continually 2x'ing me from the SB when I was BB. What are you supposed to do in this situation?
Okay, the two options are to either tighten up, or re-raise a few times so they back off, right? The problem is that this was happening constantly through the middle-to-late stages of the tournament. If I tighten up and simply fold, the player will continue to raise me, which is significant when the BB is 1k and you've only got 20BB's. However, if I re-raise a few times (which is what I ended up doing, reluctantly - and he did back off) and he actually has a hand .. then you're stack gets heavily depleted.
I'm no expert (as others will agree!) but surely you have to re-raise the flop and/or put a big bet in on the turn? You've let them both hit their flushes (and one of them hit their straight) without too much effort when a big bet could have at least gave them a decision to make if not made them fold before the turn/river; as played you can't do anything other than fold the river; the spade on the river saved you going bust, any non-spade which didn't give you a full house would almost certainly have finished you.
I'm no expert (as others will agree!) but surely you have to re-raise the flop and/or put a big bet in on the turn? You've let them both hit their flushes (and one of them hit their straight) without too much effort when a big bet could have at least gave them a decision to make if not made them fold before the turn/river; as played you can't do anything other than fold the river; the spade on the river saved you going bust, any non-spade which didn't give you a full house would almost certainly have finished you.
I'm no expert either, but even if we won that coup, we only win the minimum, & have not got value for flopping such a huge hand.
Wouldn't put myself in the 'expert' category but we definitely want to re-raise the flop IMO. Firstly it's a pretty dynamic board and whilst we have a really strong hand right now, we want to protect our equity against all of the possible straights and flushes on future streets and not give our opponents a cheap card. Secondly, if the guy raising has a King, a scary card is going to kill our action.
Finally, when you come up against good players you need to have some balance to what you're doing otherwise you become really easy to play against and you'll get run over in the long term.
So on this board, simply put, if we decide to check/raise there aren't too many combinations of value hands we can have (KK and AK we're probably going to raise preflop). If we then decide we're not going to check/raise 33 here, when we actually do decide to check/raise, our range is going to be weighted HUGELY towards bluffs (all of the straight draws and flush draws) rather than made value hands. This means our opponents can make more profitable decisions when playing against us in these kind of spots. Remember we want to be tough to play against, not face-up.
Oh, and if we get it in on the flop against a flush draw that's a great result for us long term - don't worry about the actual outcome of the hand
Sorry, tried to simplify it, probably not very well
Comments
With the AJo hand as HHY said we need to raise LOADS more if we want to thin the field or win the dead money. Generally, limpers want to see a cheap flop so we need to punish them for this. If we don't raise enough then once you get a call you start giving players great odds to call with their small pairs/suited connectors etc that they want to see a flop with. Once the hand goes to the flop with so many players we need to hit pretty hard to put a lot more money in.
With the AJ suited I think it depends on the board, this board hits the bb calling range a lot more than our opening range so I might check flop. Playing draws aggressively gives us two ways to win but we don't always need to play them this way.
I wouldn't try and see anything in a sample size of 78 games. When you make adjustments to your game and as hard as it is you should ignore results to some extent and try and play every hand to the best of your ability. You wont play every hand perfectly so learn from your mistakes. Look at the hands you win as well as the ones you lose. Sometimes you win a hand but you have made some fundamental errors but got lucky so it is important to recognise this. 1 or 2 results can effect a 78 games sample massively.
In the JJ hand you confess to being 'spooked' by the guy who 3x'd it under the gun and justify flatting Jacks because your scared he has a better hand, so you were clearly worried he might have QQ KK or AA. On the 763 flop you proceed to just bet all in into him, when all these hands you were scared of all still beat you. All you have achieved here is letting him realise his equity preflop by not going all in, not allowing him to bluff by betting all your chips before he can act, and get him to call with the same hands that beat you preflop. This is the exact opposite of what you want to achieve. In general you want to do a lot of checking on these boards against the pre-flop raiser as they have a stronger range than you do as the caller, because they can still have all the big pairs whereas you cant as you'd have raised him all in preflop, so they are allowed to bet more often. If you decided you were willing to go with it on the flop you should have checked to him first to give him chance to bluff and then gone all in. FWIW you should have just put the chips in pre.
It is surprising to see another hand history where you put in 100 blinds with AJ on a KKxA board where many people saw a flop (which means people are more likely to have hit a good hand), considering how tightly you played the JJ hand for 15 blinds. It seems to me that maybe you are thinking in terms of chips and not blinds, which a lot of new players make the mistake of doing. and is the exact wrong way to think about poker. How many blinds you have is much more significant in how you should play your cards.
The best players are the ones making the aggressive actions, and it seems like you like to play on the passive side, as the caller. Remember being aggressive gives you two ways to win, you can bet them off the pot or just have the best hand. You don't want uncontrolled random aggression though, you need to learn when to be aggressive and it takes time to understand and master. If you are serious about getting better I recommend doing some research into the game. When I started out i found 'gripsed' video's on youtube which helped me become a winning player. Dan Harrington's books are also good for more beginner players. Some people find trying to improve in this way too much effort, or see it as sucking fun out of the game, and if your ones of those just play poker the way you want at stakes you can afford to play, it's something to do for personal enjoyment after all.
^^^^
What a great post by @FeelGroggy
I suppose it's all basic stuff to the Big Boys, but he makes it sound so simple.
Think Groggs should take up poker full-time when he finishes at school.
What I consider the key hand of that tournament was this lay down. Thoughts? I had no real reads on the opponent, however this was unusual play. He hadn't been aggressive at all up to this point. The way it's played, I had him on AK, with the check on the flop for deception. I seem to be finding that it's quite common people at the low stakes don't seem to c-bet when they have hit an ace on the flop.
The second hand is less interesting, and is just a simple raise get it in. People donk out with all sorts. He can easily have a 5 or pocket pair higher than 5s that he bets and goes with when you raise. People also like to slow play when they make strong hands like sets and straights which make them less likely, if he has you beat here then its your time to get knocked out. QQ is a little too vulnerable to not raise get it in with, but I would like to flat AA exactly as there are really no scary runouts for it, and we can keep all his random bluffs in.
Today was a very good day. I came 3rd out of 156 in the bronze £1,000 turbo bounty hunter, and I also won a £100 freezeout tournament.
After 122 games I am showing -£6.47. However, my "ability" rating on Sharkscope is up to 60, which is as high as it has ever been since the start of this diary. I'm not sure how accurate that is exactly, but it's at least showing progression.
What percentage of the time do the top players cash in MTT's exactly?
Anyways, this is a hand from Thursday's £1,500 UKOPS rewards freeroll. Did I make a mistake here, or is that just one of those times when a loss of chips can't be helped?
That's 2 examples now (JJ and an in theory AQ) where it would be absolutely standard to move all in pre but for some reason you think it to be ''too loose''. Yet in other hands, you stack off when it is rather obvious you are beat (The AJ on the KKx board example). So backwards
I also really wouldn't pay too much attention to your scope ability, or to your profit/loss over such a small sample of 122 games. I'd just concentrate on making the best in game decisions with the information available.
Before you say I'm too loose, AT is an easy jam above.
I am focussing on making the correct decisions of course, but it's hard not to look at sharkscope too. The problem with this game is that there is no feedback loop. I'm achieving good results in MTT's over the last couple of days, and while I feel like I am playing well for the most part, there's still some doubt in my mind about whether or not I'm just getting lucky. It's difficult to pinpoint just how well I'm doing.
Nevertheless, it is going very well tonight. I finished 7th in a bronze £500 freezeout, and just won a £150 turbo freezeout. For those wondering, 90% of the time I'm one tabling only. I did try two tabling briefly, but I struggled to keep up with the play. That'll come with more experience though I imagine.
For the AT hand, as a rule of thumb with 10 big blinds we don't want to be messing about with min raises, keep it simple and shove or fold, you could try and be sneaky with AA though
With regards to cashing I would expect a good player to be cashing 1 in 5 at a guess, although you want to be aiming for the top 3 as that is where the big money is. Min-cashing 1 in 5 isn't a lot of good.
Cheers
Greg.
I actually took last week "off" from poker due to work. Came back yesterday/today and really struggling to get my head back in the game. Playing dreadfully right now. Will keep trying.
It's my target this week to be in the top ten on the bronze leaderboard, but let's see how that plays out. I'll be missing tomorrow's tournaments also which makes things a bit more challenging.
An interesting dynamic is arising between myself and one of the forum regulars. The person in question (I'm sure they'll read this) was continually 2x'ing me from the SB when I was BB. What are you supposed to do in this situation?
Okay, the two options are to either tighten up, or re-raise a few times so they back off, right? The problem is that this was happening constantly through the middle-to-late stages of the tournament. If I tighten up and simply fold, the player will continue to raise me, which is significant when the BB is 1k and you've only got 20BB's. However, if I re-raise a few times (which is what I ended up doing, reluctantly - and he did back off) and he actually has a hand .. then you're stack gets heavily depleted.
Advice in this situation please?
Still, prob best to see what the experts say.
Finally, when you come up against good players you need to have some balance to what you're doing otherwise you become really easy to play against and you'll get run over in the long term.
So on this board, simply put, if we decide to check/raise there aren't too many combinations of value hands we can have (KK and AK we're probably going to raise preflop). If we then decide we're not going to check/raise 33 here, when we actually do decide to check/raise, our range is going to be weighted HUGELY towards bluffs (all of the straight draws and flush draws) rather than made value hands. This means our opponents can make more profitable decisions when playing against us in these kind of spots. Remember we want to be tough to play against, not face-up.
Oh, and if we get it in on the flop against a flush draw that's a great result for us long term - don't worry about the actual outcome of the hand
Sorry, tried to simplify it, probably not very well
Glgl!