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Diary of a determined player

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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,156

    @peter27

    Oh my, very well done Peter, chuffed to bits for you.

    The progress continues.
  • mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,966
    peter27 said:

    I just won the £1500 Quickdraw tournament to scoop £320 plus £227.23 in head prizes. I needed that as it had been a while since I cashed in an MTT, although admittedly I have not been playing them particularly regularly of late.

    There was a funny moment during the final four where chicknMelt and devil_tear politely reminded me that I am not in a DYM after folding this hand:

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    devil_tearSmall blind2000.002000.0019220.00
    chicknMeltBig blind4000.006000.0036180.50
    Your hole cards
    • 9
    • A
    longjobFold
    peter27Raise8000.0014000.0036260.00
    devil_tearAll-in19220.0033220.000.00
    chicknMeltFold
    peter27Fold
    devil_tearMuck
    devil_tearWin20000.0020000.00
    devil_tearReturn13220.000.0033220.00
    Is that such an easy call? I mean, chicknMelt suggested I should be calling with any two - and given how good he is, I'm sure he's right. I'm not sure I understand why though. I would have to put 30% of my stack into the pot, with only A9s. I know that four-handed that's a pretty large starting hand, but would devil_tear be shoving anything worse than this after I had already raised? Maybe A2-A8 given that he only has approx. 10 BB's. Would he be shoving Kx+ though? I don't think most players would, despite the small stack.

    Maybe I just need to look at it with fresh eyes later. Or, maybe I have been playing too many DYM's. :|
    Nice win.

    Im a losing MTT player trying to improve so Ill attempt a reply before better players do.

    You have 9bb is it not shove fold time? , youve raised 2bb leaving yourself with 7bb , its only 2.8 bb to call the shove and you have devil_tear covered, if you lose, your still at the table , if you win you've doubled up and eliminated one.

    I hope ive counted the bbs correctly.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    mumsie said:

    peter27 said:

    I just won the £1500 Quickdraw tournament to scoop £320 plus £227.23 in head prizes. I needed that as it had been a while since I cashed in an MTT, although admittedly I have not been playing them particularly regularly of late.

    There was a funny moment during the final four where chicknMelt and devil_tear politely reminded me that I am not in a DYM after folding this hand:

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    devil_tearSmall blind2000.002000.0019220.00
    chicknMeltBig blind4000.006000.0036180.50
    Your hole cards
    • 9
    • A
    longjobFold
    peter27Raise8000.0014000.0036260.00
    devil_tearAll-in19220.0033220.000.00
    chicknMeltFold
    peter27Fold
    devil_tearMuck
    devil_tearWin20000.0020000.00
    devil_tearReturn13220.000.0033220.00
    Is that such an easy call? I mean, chicknMelt suggested I should be calling with any two - and given how good he is, I'm sure he's right. I'm not sure I understand why though. I would have to put 30% of my stack into the pot, with only A9s. I know that four-handed that's a pretty large starting hand, but would devil_tear be shoving anything worse than this after I had already raised? Maybe A2-A8 given that he only has approx. 10 BB's. Would he be shoving Kx+ though? I don't think most players would, despite the small stack.

    Maybe I just need to look at it with fresh eyes later. Or, maybe I have been playing too many DYM's. :|
    Nice win.

    Im a losing MTT player trying to improve so Ill attempt a reply before better players do.

    You have 9bb is it not shove fold time? , youve raised 2bb leaving yourself with 7bb , its only 2.8 bb to call the shove and you have devil_tear covered, if you lose, your still at the table , if you win you've doubled up and eliminated one.

    I hope ive counted the bbs correctly.
    You have counted the BB's correctly.

    The whole "shove at 10BB's" philosophy isn't one I have ever really subscribed to. I'm more than happy to play down to 5BB's - perhaps that's because I play so many TDYM's.

    However, this situation is a little different because while I am at 9BB's, I also have the biggest stack at the table. By that logic, everyone should be either folding or shoving - which I'm not sure I agree with. Happy to be convinced if someone wants to try though.
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    The Quickdraw does play really shallow at the end, so the average stack size by then does kinda skew general tournament tendencies of normal paced comps.

    The A9 is a call, it's not even close. Way too strong a hand to raise fold when its so little extra to call off. Plus the bounty element makes it even more of a call. If you don't want the 'decision' then you might as well just shove pre and put the pressure on. A9s is highly likely to be the best hand facing 2 random hands in the blinds.

    Your comment about being happy to fold down to 5bb seems a bit linear. Granted, there are occasions where we just can't get a hand or a spot to get our short stack in, but it wouldn't be advisable to fold down to a micro stack so regularly in an MTT. Even more so due to many comps on Sky being bounty hunters and you lose all fold equity. It's ok in a DYM, but that is when you need to be adaptable and not be playing an MTT with a DYM mindset.

    Well played last night.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634

    The Quickdraw does play really shallow at the end, so the average stack size by then does kinda skew general tournament tendencies of normal paced comps.

    The A9 is a call, it's not even close. Way too strong a hand to raise fold when its so little extra to call off. Plus the bounty element makes it even more of a call. If you don't want the 'decision' then you might as well just shove pre and put the pressure on. A9s is highly likely to be the best hand facing 2 random hands in the blinds.

    Your comment about being happy to fold down to 5bb seems a bit linear. Granted, there are occasions where we just can't get a hand or a spot to get our short stack in, but it wouldn't be advisable to fold down to a micro stack so regularly in an MTT. Even more so due to many comps on Sky being bounty hunters and you lose all fold equity. It's ok in a DYM, but that is when you need to be adaptable and not be playing an MTT with a DYM mindset.

    Well played last night.

    Point taken about shoving pre being an option. However, my logic was that I was being beat by more hands than I am beating. The way I saw it, AT+ in addition to any pocket pair has me beat (so 17 hands). What am I beating? A2-A8? So 7 hands? Maybe 11 hands if you include K9-KQ. I'm sure you're right, but where's the flaw in my thought process?

    I'll try to take your advice on board about being adaptable with my shoving stack size. Although, it's worth reading my next post :p
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    The good run continues as I just won a £500 bounty hunter for £145 + £99.20 in head prizes. This one is particularly special because during level two I was literally down to 10 chips. :o

    This was an interesting hand (the one that put me down to 10 chips).
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    neenioSmall blind15.0015.003145.00
    milne1991Big blind30.0045.005924.37
    Your hole cards
    • 10
    • 10
    resdesFold
    GordymRaise120.00165.002570.00
    peter27Raise360.00525.002340.00
    bar4004Fold
    neenioFold
    milne1991Fold
    GordymAll-in2570.003095.000.00
    peter27Call2330.005425.0010.00
    GordymShow
    • K
    • K
    peter27Show
    • 10
    • 10
    Flop
    • 9
    • Q
    • J
    Turn
    • 3
    River
    • 5
    GordymWinPair of Kings5425.005425.00
    With a shove after my re-raise, I basically put him on AA, KK, QQ or AK. I knew the chances are I was behind - but I just could not find the fold button. Pretty disappointed at my call there :(
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    Maybe you had the confidence to call despite knowing you're highly likely beat, because you knew you could come back from a less than small blind stack.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634

    Maybe you had the confidence to call despite knowing you're highly likely beat, because you knew you could come back from a less than small blind stack.

    That's the best comment on my diary so far! :D:D:D
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited March 2019
    peter27 said:

    The Quickdraw does play really shallow at the end, so the average stack size by then does kinda skew general tournament tendencies of normal paced comps.

    The A9 is a call, it's not even close. Way too strong a hand to raise fold when its so little extra to call off. Plus the bounty element makes it even more of a call. If you don't want the 'decision' then you might as well just shove pre and put the pressure on. A9s is highly likely to be the best hand facing 2 random hands in the blinds.

    Your comment about being happy to fold down to 5bb seems a bit linear. Granted, there are occasions where we just can't get a hand or a spot to get our short stack in, but it wouldn't be advisable to fold down to a micro stack so regularly in an MTT. Even more so due to many comps on Sky being bounty hunters and you lose all fold equity. It's ok in a DYM, but that is when you need to be adaptable and not be playing an MTT with a DYM mindset.

    Well played last night.

    Point taken about shoving pre being an option. However, my logic was that I was being beat by more hands than I am beating. The way I saw it, AT+ in addition to any pocket pair has me beat (so 17 hands). What am I beating? A2-A8? So 7 hands? Maybe 11 hands if you include K9-KQ. I'm sure you're right, but where's the flaw in my thought process?

    I'll try to take your advice on board about being adaptable with my shoving stack size. Although, it's worth reading my next post :p
    Someone who knows way more than me and can explain it much better than me will be along shortly probably, but it comes down to maths and equity.

    Look at ranges and the figures more than clumps of specific hands. You have to call 11k to win 44k, so you only need a certain amount of equity to make it a profitable call. As an associate happily informed me, even if you know the villain had KK it's still a call with A9s, and that's one of the more extreme examples.

    In this exact spot I'm not sure there are any hands you should be raise folding vs that sb stack size.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634

    peter27 said:

    The Quickdraw does play really shallow at the end, so the average stack size by then does kinda skew general tournament tendencies of normal paced comps.

    The A9 is a call, it's not even close. Way too strong a hand to raise fold when its so little extra to call off. Plus the bounty element makes it even more of a call. If you don't want the 'decision' then you might as well just shove pre and put the pressure on. A9s is highly likely to be the best hand facing 2 random hands in the blinds.

    Your comment about being happy to fold down to 5bb seems a bit linear. Granted, there are occasions where we just can't get a hand or a spot to get our short stack in, but it wouldn't be advisable to fold down to a micro stack so regularly in an MTT. Even more so due to many comps on Sky being bounty hunters and you lose all fold equity. It's ok in a DYM, but that is when you need to be adaptable and not be playing an MTT with a DYM mindset.

    Well played last night.

    Point taken about shoving pre being an option. However, my logic was that I was being beat by more hands than I am beating. The way I saw it, AT+ in addition to any pocket pair has me beat (so 17 hands). What am I beating? A2-A8? So 7 hands? Maybe 11 hands if you include K9-KQ. I'm sure you're right, but where's the flaw in my thought process?

    I'll try to take your advice on board about being adaptable with my shoving stack size. Although, it's worth reading my next post :p
    Someone who knows way more than me and can explain it much better than me will be along shortly probably, but it comes down to maths and equity.

    Look at ranges and the figures more than clumps of specific hands. You have to call 11k to win 44k, so you only need a certain amount of equity to make it a profitable call. As an associate happily informed me, even if you know the villain had KK it's still a call with A9s, and that's one of the more extreme examples.

    In this exact spot I'm not sure there are any hands you should be raise folding vs that sb stack size.
    I'm still struggling with this one, but I am trying to get my head around it.

    The opposition is playing under 5BB's, so I suppose they are looking to shove any two. I would need to call 11k to win 44k, so in theory, I need a minimum of 25% equity to make this a calling spot.

    They are looking to shove "any two", but they shoved after my raise which can't be ignored. Am I >25% equity here? I really can't see how I could be.

    I also don't know why it would be a call if I knew the villain had KK.

    This one has me stumped. But, I know you're right .. I just don't know why.

    Point taken about raise folding though, I do agree with that. I should have recognised the stack size of the player behind.

    @chicknMelt
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    I just won a £400 Bounty Hunter for £92.50 + £50.00 head prizes.

    There was a very interesting spot (below) where I shoved to isolate the bounty on offer, and clock123 chastised me in the chat stating it was a terrible play. His suggestion was that anything calling my stack size would have me beat, and that I should have raised around 6k instead.

    What're your thoughts?



    Note: couldn't copy the hand like normal, so posting as an image. I did lose the hand to nogin109, who hit his ace.


  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,737
    Shoving/raising both fine.
    Last bit hasn't been true since about 2006...
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    oh oh OH! The plot thinens.

    So, although I can see clock123's logic above, the way he said it to me was not exactly polite. What you need to know is that we ended heads up, he shoved with Ax, I called with Qx, hit the queen and won the tournament.

    We just got seated on a table together again .. and he started moaning about me getting lucky.



    Is it poker etiquette to apologise for getting lucky? If so, I still stand by what I said to be honest. It doesn't make sense. By the way, the word I used in the chat rhymes with mollocks. :D
  • DozzaDozza Member Posts: 301
    I only apologise for hitting sick runner runner outers on the turn and river after being miles behind on the flop - that's providing all the chips have already gone in the middle. I don't apologise for hitting sets against bigger pairs or cracking these hands with other holdings.

    The very worst you can be with Qx is 30% to win the hand and that's against AK. In some cases you will be close to 45% to win the hand against smaller aces so definitely not worth an apology in my humble opinion.
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    Clock moaning in chat....I am shocked!
  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    Clock is lovely
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,156

    I believe its a French name, the 'l' is silent.

    A+
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,444
    Tikay10 said:

    I believe its a French name, the 'l' is silent.

    A+
    Up early, TK?

    Also this must apply to @pompeynic as when we - @MISTY4ME @HANSON @SidV79 -play against him we are always typing CLOCK!
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,156
    madprof said:

    Tikay10 said:

    I believe its a French name, the 'l' is silent.

    A+
    Up early, TK?

    Also this must apply to @pompeynic as when we - @MISTY4ME @HANSON @SidV79 -play against him we are always typing CLOCK!
    Yup, I got up at 0430 to watch the F1 GP from Australia.
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