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Taking our Jobs.

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  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118

    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I thought immigration was one of the main reasons people voted leave.

    I went to google and this was the first listing when asking "what was the biggest reason to vote leave" by the Centre for Social Investigation, Nuffield College, Oxford

    Several different surveys and opinion polls have asked Britons why they voted the way they did in the EU referendum. The two main reasons people voted Leave were ‘immigration’ and ‘sovereignty’, whereas the main reason people voted Remain was ‘the economy’.
    Oh well if surveys are saying that , it must be right then . ;) Big shout out to Nuffield college , the home of surveys .
    With your response and the "many various reasons" response by rainman I don't see any benefit in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

    If you are able to show some evidence that immigration wasn't a major factor when it appears to be the case then some beneficial debate could occur.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    tomgoodun said:

    On this thread we have had people on camera blaming immigrants for taking their jobs
    People filmed being offered the job immigrants do and turning it down
    One must ask, given the choice of Leave or Remain, which way could it be assumed they voted?
    I for one don’t think for one minute they thought “ It’s not the immigrants fault, I’ll vote remain”

    Is it beyond the realms of possibility that this kind of thinking swayed the vote in favour of leave?

    I would have put my mortgage on “ Project Fear” being urttered on this thread btw..

    Cherry picking clips off the internet can prove any argument.
    The majority of people i have spoken to who voted LEAVE did not vote Leave because of immigration.
    haysie mentioned project fear.

    Never heard Haysie , once refer to a conversation he's had with someone outside the internet ...you know like a real person to person conversation . I appreciate that he probably won't have any friends whos conversations he could recall , but you would think he could find someone outside to annoy for a short while. :D Pick your extreme versions of the opposite stance straight off the media and internet and you have a ready to go argument ...obviously no substance to it , but lets not let facts get in the way of rabid remainer hyperbole . It's all very sad to be honest .
    You dont actually know anything about me.
  • rainman215rainman215 Member Posts: 1,186
    Didnt the polls say before the referendum we would re
    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I thought immigration was one of the main reasons people voted leave.

    I went to google and this was the first listing when asking "what was the biggest reason to vote leave" by the Centre for Social Investigation, Nuffield College, Oxford

    Several different surveys and opinion polls have asked Britons why they voted the way they did in the EU referendum. The two main reasons people voted Leave were ‘immigration’ and ‘sovereignty’, whereas the main reason people voted Remain was ‘the economy’.
    Oh well if surveys are saying that , it must be right then . ;) Big shout out to Nuffield college , the home of surveys .
    With your response and the "many various reasons" response by rainman I don't see any benefit in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

    If you are able to show some evidence that immigration wasn't a major factor when it appears to be the case then some beneficial debate could occur.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit
    Would you like me to list reasons.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    tomgoodun said:

    On this thread we have had people on camera blaming immigrants for taking their jobs
    People filmed being offered the job immigrants do and turning it down
    One must ask, given the choice of Leave or Remain, which way could it be assumed they voted?
    I for one don’t think for one minute they thought “ It’s not the immigrants fault, I’ll vote remain”

    Is it beyond the realms of possibility that this kind of thinking swayed the vote in favour of leave?

    I would have put my mortgage on “ Project Fear” being urttered on this thread btw..

    Cherry picking clips off the internet can prove any argument.
    The majority of people i have spoken to who voted LEAVE did not vote Leave because of immigration.
    haysie mentioned project fear.




    Immigration is key issue with EU referendum voters, according ...
    www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/15/eu...
    “It’s the economy, stupid.” Actually, in the EU referendum debate the long-held political truism doesn’t appear to ring true. Google has been analysing the internet searches people have

    Immigration is the Brexiteers' comfort blanket. It isn't ...
    www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/immigration...
    Immigration and the economy dominate the debate for the EU referendum, which is unsurprising given how regularly they top lists of what concern the public most.

    EU referendum: The immigration question - BBC News
    www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum...
    Immigration's being talked about much more than usual in the run-up to the referendum, but I could see how concerned people were to come across in a balanced way.

    Understanding the role of the mass media in the EU Referendum ...
    www.referendumanalysis.eu/eu-referendum-analysis-2016/...
    In this way immigration can act as a lightening rod catching discontent on a range of issues and then transferring these to perceptions of issues that are linked like the EU. Therefore in understanding how the media influenced the referendum result it is important to recognise that before the campaign even began the large parts of the public had been primed by the media to be Eurosceptic

    Brexit: The Role of Migration in the Upcoming EU Referendum
    www.migrationpolicy.org › Migration Information Source
    MPI analysts explore how the migration politics and policies of the UK government influenced the decision to hold the "Brexit" referendum, how public attitudes towards immigration might influence the result, and how the outcome might impact migration policy in the United Kingdom and European Union more broadly.

    EU referendum: Immigration and Brexit - what lies have been ...
    www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics
    Leading figures in Vote Leave, the official Brexit campaign used to say that they would not need to focus on immigration to win the EU referendum debate.

    Immigration is now the top issue for voters in the EU referendum
    www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/immigration-now...
    More than half (52%) of those likely to vote to leave in the referendum mention immigration as an issue compared with 14% of those likely to vote to remain while two in five (41%) Remain voters say the economy is an important issue compared with 18% of Leave voters. Other issues mentioned by voters include Britain’s ability to make its own laws (12%), the impact on public services/housing …

    EU referendum: Concern over immigration delivers a ...
    www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/concern-over...
    P ublic concern over immigration has delivered a "significant" boost to the Leave campaign amid growing concern about Britain's ability to control its borders, a new poll suggests

    EU Referendum: New poll shows one in three think immigration ...
    www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics
    An exclusive poll for The Independent has shown one in three voters believe immigration is a bigger issue in the EU Referendum than the economy.

    THE TWO POLES OF THE REFERENDUM DEBATE: IMMIGRATION AND THE ...
    whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/...
    THE TW PLE F THE REFERENU EBTE IIRTIN N THE ENY 3 The two sets of voters also hold very different views on what leaving the EU would mean for immigration.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I don't want to portray them as anything.

    They portray themselves.

    I have said many times that people who voted leave did so for many different reasons.

    The people who claim to know what all leave voters, voted for, are other leave voters, and politicians. They claim to know exactly why everyone voted to leave, and exactly what a leave vote meant to everyone.

    This is something I think is impossible to know.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I don't want to portray them as anything.

    They portray themselves.

    I have said many times that people who voted leave did so for many different reasons.

    The people who claim to know what all leave voters, voted for, are other leave voters, and politicians. They claim to know exactly why everyone voted to leave, and exactly what a leave vote meant to everyone.

    This is something I think is impossible to know.
    Nope your portraying them by cherry picking silly documentaries which use people with extremist ( or non populus ) viewpoints .
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited February 2019
    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I thought immigration was one of the main reasons people voted leave.

    I went to google and this was the first listing when asking "what was the biggest reason to vote leave" by the Centre for Social Investigation, Nuffield College, Oxford

    Several different surveys and opinion polls have asked Britons why they voted the way they did in the EU referendum. The two main reasons people voted Leave were ‘immigration’ and ‘sovereignty’, whereas the main reason people voted Remain was ‘the economy’.
    Oh well if surveys are saying that , it must be right then . ;) Big shout out to Nuffield college , the home of surveys .
    With your response and the "many various reasons" response by rainman I don't see any benefit in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

    If you are able to show some evidence that immigration wasn't a major factor when it appears to be the case then some beneficial debate could occur.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit
    Quite happy to have a sensible debate ...but you can't use wikipedia in the equation , if you want to be taken seriously . View Tony kendals wiki page for example and then tell me you can actually with faith use that site as a good referencing tool .
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    HAYSIE said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I don't want to portray them as anything.

    They portray themselves.

    I have said many times that people who voted leave did so for many different reasons.

    The people who claim to know what all leave voters, voted for, are other leave voters, and politicians. They claim to know exactly why everyone voted to leave, and exactly what a leave vote meant to everyone.

    This is something I think is impossible to know.
    Nope your portraying them by cherry picking silly documentaries which use people with extremist ( or non populus ) viewpoints .
    I just posted a number of random videos.
    I don't think that you can dispute the fact that there is a fairly common view that people feel that immigrants take their jobs.
    You obviously have the option of posting stuff that supports your views.
    Some of the videos go back to the 1970s and views don't appear to have changed that much.
    I don't think the views held are that extreme, although all evidence proves that they are untrue.
    I think that if you stood outside a job centre tomorrow asking people to take a job picking vegetables, you would get a similar reaction, from people whose views wouldn't be considered extreme.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    Didnt the polls say before the referendum we would re

    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I thought immigration was one of the main reasons people voted leave.

    I went to google and this was the first listing when asking "what was the biggest reason to vote leave" by the Centre for Social Investigation, Nuffield College, Oxford

    Several different surveys and opinion polls have asked Britons why they voted the way they did in the EU referendum. The two main reasons people voted Leave were ‘immigration’ and ‘sovereignty’, whereas the main reason people voted Remain was ‘the economy’.
    Oh well if surveys are saying that , it must be right then . ;) Big shout out to Nuffield college , the home of surveys .
    With your response and the "many various reasons" response by rainman I don't see any benefit in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

    If you are able to show some evidence that immigration wasn't a major factor when it appears to be the case then some beneficial debate could occur.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit
    Would you like me to list reasons.
    That would be a fairly rare event.
  • rainman215rainman215 Member Posts: 1,186
    random
    adjective UK ​ /ˈræn.dəm/ US ​ /ˈræn.dəm/

    C1 happening, done, or chosen by chance rather than according to a plan:

    random checks/tests/attacks
    :):):)
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    HAYSIE said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I don't want to portray them as anything.

    They portray themselves.

    I have said many times that people who voted leave did so for many different reasons.

    The people who claim to know what all leave voters, voted for, are other leave voters, and politicians. They claim to know exactly why everyone voted to leave, and exactly what a leave vote meant to everyone.

    This is something I think is impossible to know.
    Nope your portraying them by cherry picking silly documentaries which use people with extremist ( or non populus ) viewpoints .
    Every time your little gang turns up on a thread it turns into this.
  • rainman215rainman215 Member Posts: 1,186
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I don't want to portray them as anything.

    They portray themselves.

    I have said many times that people who voted leave did so for many different reasons.

    The people who claim to know what all leave voters, voted for, are other leave voters, and politicians. They claim to know exactly why everyone voted to leave, and exactly what a leave vote meant to everyone.

    This is something I think is impossible to know.
    Nope your portraying them by cherry picking silly documentaries which use people with extremist ( or non populus ) viewpoints .
    Every time your little gang turns up on a thread it turns into this.
    Here we go again chat ban coming up. :)
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,824

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    MattBates said:

    I have spoken to real life people, who voted leave including immigrants who voted leave, they must be racist too.

    What were their reasons for voting leave?
    Haysie and others , want to portray most of the leave voters , voting because of immigration and ignoring anything else . A lot of what could be considered , intelligent , reasoned respectable individuals voted leave ...they don't all have swastika tattoos and go on far right marches .
    I don't want to portray them as anything.

    They portray themselves.

    I have said many times that people who voted leave did so for many different reasons.

    The people who claim to know what all leave voters, voted for, are other leave voters, and politicians. They claim to know exactly why everyone voted to leave, and exactly what a leave vote meant to everyone.

    This is something I think is impossible to know.
    Nope your portraying them by cherry picking silly documentaries which use people with extremist ( or non populus ) viewpoints .
    Every time your little gang turns up on a thread it turns into this.
    Here we go again chat ban coming up. :)
    A definite benefit to the forum.
    I am off bye.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,555

    Thread has not had it's best day, with personal digs, trolling and obfuscation.

    It's a great thread and yes, folks get passionate, but we are adults and ought to be able to do better.

    Let's get back on track please.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited February 2019
    Tikay10 said:


    Thread has not had it's best day, with personal digs, trolling and obfuscation.

    It's a great thread and yes, folks get passionate, but we are adults and ought to be able to do better.

    Let's get back on track please.

    Whenever anyone seems to have any differing opinions to the main contributor of the rail posts, , we get the same old " gang " stuff appearing, designed at getting people shut down , merely for having an opposing view
    For any of this stuff to be called a debate , there has to be different opinions , otherwise , it quite simply isn't !
    Opposing opinions are being described erroneously as trolling .
    And personal digs and their subsequent warnings work both ways , if you want a fairly dealt forum which treats every contributor equally , not just preferential treatment for a bulk poster
    Never heard any " reprimands" for some of Haysies snidey posts ! .
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    Even if we accept ( im not prepared to ) , that immigration was the main reason for the leave vote ...then we still have a massive social problem . The fact that swathes of our neighbourhoods might view it like this ( rightly or wrongly ) , shows that our politicians should have taken steps to rectify the feeling of unrest , by being honest about figures or on the obverse side admitting there is a problem and outlining what they will do to resolve it .
  • rainman215rainman215 Member Posts: 1,186
    Tikay10 said:


    Thread has not had it's best day, with personal digs, trolling and obfuscation.

    It's a great thread and yes, folks get passionate, but we are adults and ought to be able to do better.

    Let's get back on track please.

    Could you show me which posts i have posted which are personal digs, trolling or obfuscation, so i know where i am going wrong.
  • tomgooduntomgoodun Member Posts: 3,754

    Even if we accept ( im not prepared to ) , that immigration was the main reason for the leave vote ...then we still have a massive social problem . The fact that swathes of our neighbourhoods might view it like this ( rightly or wrongly ) , shows that our politicians should have taken steps to rectify the feeling of unrest , by being honest about figures or on the obverse side admitting there is a problem and outlining what they will do to resolve it .

    I would struggle to see what steps politicians could take to rectify the feeling of unrest, tbh I think the problem needs solving within the family unit, and schools.

    Unfortunately due to lack of funding in education,the schools may find it very difficult to tackle the issue.
    Families on the other hand, well, the children in most cases hear things from their parents from an early age ( not all of course) and blaming others for your problems seems to be the norm .

    There is a deep rooted problem in society today , Austerity has caused the rise in anger, but the focus of the anger somehow has been skewed away from those in power.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    tomgoodun said:

    Even if we accept ( im not prepared to ) , that immigration was the main reason for the leave vote ...then we still have a massive social problem . The fact that swathes of our neighbourhoods might view it like this ( rightly or wrongly ) , shows that our politicians should have taken steps to rectify the feeling of unrest , by being honest about figures or on the obverse side admitting there is a problem and outlining what they will do to resolve it .

    I would struggle to see what steps politicians could take to rectify the feeling of unrest, tbh I think the problem needs solving within the family unit, and schools.

    Unfortunately due to lack of funding in education,the schools may find it very difficult to tackle the issue.
    Families on the other hand, well, the children in most cases hear things from their parents from an early age ( not all of course) and blaming others for your problems seems to be the norm .

    There is a deep rooted problem in society today , Austerity has caused the rise in anger, but the focus of the anger somehow has been skewed away from those in power.
    The problem lies entirely at the hands of politicians and the governments of the day .
    You feed society , the bare minimum in terms of actual fact instead of bareface lies( and conflicting information from different partys) , then you leave them to form their own opinions . You leave large sectors of society feeling that they aren't heard or ever listened to , then this is what happens , this is where we are today . It's all completely down to UK politics . if you blame lack of funding in schools , then ultimately you have to blame the governement for creating that .
  • tomgooduntomgoodun Member Posts: 3,754

    tomgoodun said:

    Even if we accept ( im not prepared to ) , that immigration was the main reason for the leave vote ...then we still have a massive social problem . The fact that swathes of our neighbourhoods might view it like this ( rightly or wrongly ) , shows that our politicians should have taken steps to rectify the feeling of unrest , by being honest about figures or on the obverse side admitting there is a problem and outlining what they will do to resolve it .

    I would struggle to see what steps politicians could take to rectify the feeling of unrest, tbh I think the problem needs solving within the family unit, and schools.

    Unfortunately due to lack of funding in education,the schools may find it very difficult to tackle the issue.
    Families on the other hand, well, the children in most cases hear things from their parents from an early age ( not all of course) and blaming others for your problems seems to be the norm .

    There is a deep rooted problem in society today , Austerity has caused the rise in anger, but the focus of the anger somehow has been skewed away from those in power.
    The problem lies entirely at the hands of politicians and the governments of the day .
    You feed society , the bare minimum in terms of actual fact instead of bareface lies( and conflicting information from different partys) , then you leave them to form their own opinions . You leave large sectors of society feeling that they aren't heard or ever listened to , then this is what happens , this is where we are today . It's all completely down to UK politics . if you blame lack of funding in schools , then ultimately you have to blame the governement for creating that .
    I agree lack of funding in schools has created problems., however you can’t blame politicians/government for the ignorance and bone idleness / bigotry of some people, and as far as “feeding society”, it has been mentioned here and the Brexit thread that social media plays a huge part in people’s lives, and anyone ( it seems) can post lies which people fall hook line and sinker for and pass them off as fact.

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