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Essexphil's UKOPS diary

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    CammykazeCammykaze Member Posts: 1,397
    I would assume you did not have a profitable experience. Don't think I would be going out on a limb to suggest that :neutral:

    Was looking to hit a fair chunk of events myself however bankroll, time and general feeling of being "stuck" for potentially hours in an MTT and having it more than likely unprofitable was enough to limit my action.

    I was break even-ish in the two or so events I played. One being a satellite and the other a direct registration.

    In your initial post you make a great point on the multi entries and rebuys.

    For me, it's the better players with the bigger bankrolls diluting the field. Sitting at a 20 quid rebuy/reentry or whatever is no use for gaining top prizes for a satellite entrant, won't think many of the sat winners would have been at the top table on many of the UKOP events.

    I'm a one time man at the 20 quid games so they would have been perhaps unprofitable hence the avoidance.

    Great diary Phil, enjoyed the ITW stuff in the thread.

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    stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 7,631
    Essexphil said:

    That will be my last night on Sky Poker for a while.

    There is no such thing as a doom switch. But it is like old-fashioned bookmakers-if the horse you backed falls at the last regularly when you bet at Coral, you change bookies. It's as simple as that.

    Hand of the night was in a non-UKOPS before 7 pm. Me-AKs. Button raises, I re-raise, he calls. Flop A65-I bet, he calls. Turn 3, I bet, he shoves. and shows....4 2 off. Exactly the same happened yesterday.

    Event 58. Got lucky with AKs v AA. Then got rivered AA v J10. Shoved last 10 bigs with AK. Called by 89. River 8.

    Event 60. I have AA in the BB. @MattBates has KK in the SB. River K. Not blaming Matt-he can never fold KK there. But I have never lost with AA all-in pre as often as I have in the last month.

    Event 61. Was going reasonably well. Trying not to tilt after Event 60. Not helped by losing a chunk to someone who I assume had just re-entered after the re-entry period. (I had moved tables, and the BB had exactly starting stack). I have been playing poker for 15 years. I have never known a rebuy or re-entry period to be missed before today. I have to say, for the first time, that gives me Trust issues with this site.

    Event 62. UTG shoves for about 1.5BB. UTG plus 1 reshoves for 23 bigs. With A 6 off. I snap call with a decent pair in the BB. River A.

    I'll be back.

    But not for a while.

    Have fun

    Phil

    Proper tilt rant that Phil thought I was reading jacs thread for a minute
    Crazy times with some crazy plays it's hard to get your head around it sometimes I've had some insane beats over the last couple of weeks but I'm only playing £2 and £5 games so it's frustrating but not to the extent I want to smash the laptop up
    The rebuy anomaly wasn't a smart move by sky but I think it was just a mistake by someone and $hit happens sometimes just stay cool mate
    Anyway hope to see you soon Phil take care
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    SidV79SidV79 Member Posts: 4,028
    Hi Phil mate, sorry your luck hasn't been in for this UKOPS but with such crazy field sizes and people calling all three streets with rag A's (no matter what the board texture is, then hitting on the river-many times) I can understand your need for a break. This thread has been a great read (apart from the results oc) and hope you come back soon. Stay safe, keep calm and run good.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999
    Cammykaze said:

    I would assume you did not have a profitable experience. Don't think I would be going out on a limb to suggest that :neutral:

    Was looking to hit a fair chunk of events myself however bankroll, time and general feeling of being "stuck" for potentially hours in an MTT and having it more than likely unprofitable was enough to limit my action.

    I was break even-ish in the two or so events I played. One being a satellite and the other a direct registration.

    In your initial post you make a great point on the multi entries and rebuys.

    For me, it's the better players with the bigger bankrolls diluting the field. Sitting at a 20 quid rebuy/reentry or whatever is no use for gaining top prizes for a satellite entrant, won't think many of the sat winners would have been at the top table on many of the UKOP events.

    I'm a one time man at the 20 quid games so they would have been perhaps unprofitable hence the avoidance.

    Great diary Phil, enjoyed the ITW stuff in the thread.

    Thanks for your input on this thread.

    Have I lost money during UKOPS? Yes. but not nearly as much as some seriously good players. Less than £1,000 and (when non-UKOPS events are taken into account) less than £500.

    i will return to the problem I have with re-entry tournaments (as opposed to rebuys) in a later post.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999
    stokefc said:

    Essexphil said:

    That will be my last night on Sky Poker for a while.

    There is no such thing as a doom switch. But it is like old-fashioned bookmakers-if the horse you backed falls at the last regularly when you bet at Coral, you change bookies. It's as simple as that.

    Hand of the night was in a non-UKOPS before 7 pm. Me-AKs. Button raises, I re-raise, he calls. Flop A65-I bet, he calls. Turn 3, I bet, he shoves. and shows....4 2 off. Exactly the same happened yesterday.

    Event 58. Got lucky with AKs v AA. Then got rivered AA v J10. Shoved last 10 bigs with AK. Called by 89. River 8.

    Event 60. I have AA in the BB. @MattBates has KK in the SB. River K. Not blaming Matt-he can never fold KK there. But I have never lost with AA all-in pre as often as I have in the last month.

    Event 61. Was going reasonably well. Trying not to tilt after Event 60. Not helped by losing a chunk to someone who I assume had just re-entered after the re-entry period. (I had moved tables, and the BB had exactly starting stack). I have been playing poker for 15 years. I have never known a rebuy or re-entry period to be missed before today. I have to say, for the first time, that gives me Trust issues with this site.

    Event 62. UTG shoves for about 1.5BB. UTG plus 1 reshoves for 23 bigs. With A 6 off. I snap call with a decent pair in the BB. River A.

    I'll be back.

    But not for a while.

    Have fun

    Phil

    Proper tilt rant that Phil thought I was reading jacs thread for a minute
    Crazy times with some crazy plays it's hard to get your head around it sometimes I've had some insane beats over the last couple of weeks but I'm only playing £2 and £5 games so it's frustrating but not to the extent I want to smash the laptop up
    The rebuy anomaly wasn't a smart move by sky but I think it was just a mistake by someone and $hit happens sometimes just stay cool mate
    Anyway hope to see you soon Phil take care
    :)

    It IS a bit tilty. But it is important to point out that it is not flouncy :)

    Crazy plays? That can get a bit tilty, true. Insane beats? Ditto. But (of course) in the longer term we all want to play against people who play like that.

    The rebuy anomaly? Of course it was not deliberate. Quite apart from anything else, Sky do not rake re-entries, so they would not gain money out of it. It is more the case that it shows how Sky is not as well run as it used to be. People who used to work solely for Sky Poker are now wearing more than 1 hat. It is currently unable to make plans for the medium-term, never mind the longer term. And the software running it gets ever older.

    Thanks for the post-take care
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999
    SidV79 said:

    Hi Phil mate, sorry your luck hasn't been in for this UKOPS but with such crazy field sizes and people calling all three streets with rag A's (no matter what the board texture is, then hitting on the river-many times) I can understand your need for a break. This thread has been a great read (apart from the results oc) and hope you come back soon. Stay safe, keep calm and run good.

    Thanks, Andy. Fired up some proper Punk (and Metal) late yesterday.

    But it is important to point out why I want to take a break from Sky Poker. Not poker-you don't get to play as much as I have since 2005 without being resilient.

    I have played on lots of sites for many years.

    I started out on Party, and for 2-3 years I had played more tracked MTTs there than anyone else.

    Then i started playing on i-poker, then just about everywhere. For the last 3-4 years i have probably played more on Sky than anywhere else.

    So-why the change? The answer is simple. The answer is re-entry tournaments, how Sky run them, and the difference it has made to the player pool. I will set this out in detail on my next post.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999
    I dislike re-entry tournaments. always have. always will. Why should someone be able to re-enter? It's called Knocked Out for a reason.

    What made me think deeper about why was a throwaway comment by @Doooobs on 18th March. For the avoidance of doubt, i am in no way attacking him. I don't know him, but know people who do, and all say nothing but nice things.

    The comment was about the £100 Tuesday Summit. There were a total of 122 entries. 6 of those were @Doooobs

    Every poker player looks at the rules, and works them to their advantage. That is part of the game. It is up to the sites to pitch the rules, to attract players

    But let's look at that in closer detail. The Recs had 1 seat. For which they got 10,000 chips. And paid £10 rake.

    A reg had 6 seats. For which they got 60,000 chips. And still paid a total rake of only £10. Because re-entries are rake free.

    Last night's Main had a Re-entry period of over 2.5 hours. And the 1-seaters subsidised the rake for all of those re-entries. 1 seat is raked at 10%. 5 seats (for the same player) are raked at 2%. It could easily have been 5% for every seat. But it wasn't. It never is.

    Which is why, for the bigger events, the total number of entries (as opposed to the unique entries) is becoming increasingly dominated by 20 or so very good players. Because they can not only re-enter, they can do so rake-free.

    Which is why I am going to play elsewhere. Because a site which for many years has been Rec friendly, is rather less friendly now.

    I am sure I will be back playing on sky before long. But not at the volume I have previously done.
  • Options
    CammykazeCammykaze Member Posts: 1,397
    Essexphil said:

    Cammykaze said:

    I would assume you did not have a profitable experience. Don't think I would be going out on a limb to suggest that :neutral:

    Was looking to hit a fair chunk of events myself however bankroll, time and general feeling of being "stuck" for potentially hours in an MTT and having it more than likely unprofitable was enough to limit my action.

    I was break even-ish in the two or so events I played. One being a satellite and the other a direct registration.

    In your initial post you make a great point on the multi entries and rebuys.

    For me, it's the better players with the bigger bankrolls diluting the field. Sitting at a 20 quid rebuy/reentry or whatever is no use for gaining top prizes for a satellite entrant, won't think many of the sat winners would have been at the top table on many of the UKOP events.

    I'm a one time man at the 20 quid games so they would have been perhaps unprofitable hence the avoidance.

    Great diary Phil, enjoyed the ITW stuff in the thread.

    i will return to the problem I have with re-entry tournaments (as opposed to rebuys) in a later post.
    I will get the crisps and dip out for this one.

    Certainly know how to work the fans into a frenzy. (This fan anyway!) :blush:

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    EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,272
    Sorry to hear that you've had a rough time recently Phil. A couple of points if I may -

    AA v @MattBates KK is a flip, in fact he is probably a slight favorite, you should know this.

    Secondly, it's not the variance that's the problem it's the timing of the variance. In your post you mentioned you got lucky with AK v AA then lost with AA v J10, thus losing the advantage of that small amount of run good.

    I have had it a couple of times in the last few weeks. I ran like God in the early stages of a freeroll for main event seats a while back. I didn't lose an all in including dishing out probably 3 or 4 bad beats. Sadly that run fell short of actually getting a seat as I finished about 10th or so out of 700 ish (from memory) and won zilch.

    Then had the same in another freeroll, again using up a few of my limited bad beat allowance in order to cash for £2 or something.

    Those sort of runs in the later stages of a decent MTT would be worth a fair few quid I'm sure.

    I wasn't aware of a rebuy issue with Sky, was there not just a chance that the player happened to have exactly the starting stack?

    Anyway, I hope you run better in the future you just need a few more muppets to try and bluff you off full houses (you probably don't remember the hand but it wasn't my best ever play, it made sense to me at the time, trying to bluff a high pocket pair on something like a JJJ97 board, when I did in fact have A7, you hade me crushed with 93 and were never folding that!)

    I waffle too much, have a good bank holiday.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,957
    Enut said:

    Sorry to hear that you've had a rough time recently Phil. A couple of points if I may -

    AA v @MattBates KK is a flip, in fact he is probably a slight favorite, you should know this.

    Secondly, it's not the variance that's the problem it's the timing of the variance. In your post you mentioned you got lucky with AK v AA then lost with AA v J10, thus losing the advantage of that small amount of run good.

    I have had it a couple of times in the last few weeks. I ran like God in the early stages of a freeroll for main event seats a while back. I didn't lose an all in including dishing out probably 3 or 4 bad beats. Sadly that run fell short of actually getting a seat as I finished about 10th or so out of 700 ish (from memory) and won zilch.

    Then had the same in another freeroll, again using up a few of my limited bad beat allowance in order to cash for £2 or something.

    Those sort of runs in the later stages of a decent MTT would be worth a fair few quid I'm sure.

    I wasn't aware of a rebuy issue with Sky, was there not just a chance that the player happened to have exactly the starting stack?

    Anyway, I hope you run better in the future you just need a few more muppets to try and bluff you off full houses (you probably don't remember the hand but it wasn't my best ever play, it made sense to me at the time, trying to bluff a high pocket pair on something like a JJJ97 board, when I did in fact have A7, you hade me crushed with 93 and were never folding that!)

    I waffle too much, have a good bank holiday.

    I don't know much about poker, but AA is 81% against KK, and definitely not a flip.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,085

    @HAYSIE

    The point, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, (probably lost on elderly folks) was that against The Dreaded Bates it IS a flip.
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    stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 7,631
    HAYSIE said:

    Enut said:

    Sorry to hear that you've had a rough time recently Phil. A couple of points if I may -

    AA v @MattBates KK is a flip, in fact he is probably a slight favorite, you should know this.

    Secondly, it's not the variance that's the problem it's the timing of the variance. In your post you mentioned you got lucky with AK v AA then lost with AA v J10, thus losing the advantage of that small amount of run good.

    I have had it a couple of times in the last few weeks. I ran like God in the early stages of a freeroll for main event seats a while back. I didn't lose an all in including dishing out probably 3 or 4 bad beats. Sadly that run fell short of actually getting a seat as I finished about 10th or so out of 700 ish (from memory) and won zilch.

    Then had the same in another freeroll, again using up a few of my limited bad beat allowance in order to cash for £2 or something.

    Those sort of runs in the later stages of a decent MTT would be worth a fair few quid I'm sure.

    I wasn't aware of a rebuy issue with Sky, was there not just a chance that the player happened to have exactly the starting stack?

    Anyway, I hope you run better in the future you just need a few more muppets to try and bluff you off full houses (you probably don't remember the hand but it wasn't my best ever play, it made sense to me at the time, trying to bluff a high pocket pair on something like a JJJ97 board, when I did in fact have A7, you hade me crushed with 93 and were never folding that!)

    I waffle too much, have a good bank holiday.

    I don't know much about poker, but AA is 81% against KK, and definitely not a flip.
    Yeah I agree but it was against Matt so them odds fall dramatically 😉
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999
    edited April 2020
    HAYSIE said:

    Enut said:

    Sorry to hear that you've had a rough time recently Phil. A couple of points if I may -

    AA v @MattBates KK is a flip, in fact he is probably a slight favorite, you should know this.

    Secondly, it's not the variance that's the problem it's the timing of the variance. In your post you mentioned you got lucky with AK v AA then lost with AA v J10, thus losing the advantage of that small amount of run good.

    I have had it a couple of times in the last few weeks. I ran like God in the early stages of a freeroll for main event seats a while back. I didn't lose an all in including dishing out probably 3 or 4 bad beats. Sadly that run fell short of actually getting a seat as I finished about 10th or so out of 700 ish (from memory) and won zilch.

    Then had the same in another freeroll, again using up a few of my limited bad beat allowance in order to cash for £2 or something.

    Those sort of runs in the later stages of a decent MTT would be worth a fair few quid I'm sure.

    I wasn't aware of a rebuy issue with Sky, was there not just a chance that the player happened to have exactly the starting stack?

    Anyway, I hope you run better in the future you just need a few more muppets to try and bluff you off full houses (you probably don't remember the hand but it wasn't my best ever play, it made sense to me at the time, trying to bluff a high pocket pair on something like a JJJ97 board, when I did in fact have A7, you hade me crushed with 93 and were never folding that!)

    I waffle too much, have a good bank holiday.

    I don't know much about poker, but AA is 81% against KK, and definitely not a flip.
    Normally, yes. Or 82%. Depending on the suits.
    But v @MattBates ? I'm with @Enut . Flip. At best. :)
  • Options
    PKRParPKRPar Member Posts: 2,233
    HAYSIE said:

    Enut said:

    Sorry to hear that you've had a rough time recently Phil. A couple of points if I may -

    AA v @MattBates KK is a flip, in fact he is probably a slight favorite, you should know this.

    Secondly, it's not the variance that's the problem it's the timing of the variance. In your post you mentioned you got lucky with AK v AA then lost with AA v J10, thus losing the advantage of that small amount of run good.

    I have had it a couple of times in the last few weeks. I ran like God in the early stages of a freeroll for main event seats a while back. I didn't lose an all in including dishing out probably 3 or 4 bad beats. Sadly that run fell short of actually getting a seat as I finished about 10th or so out of 700 ish (from memory) and won zilch.

    Then had the same in another freeroll, again using up a few of my limited bad beat allowance in order to cash for £2 or something.

    Those sort of runs in the later stages of a decent MTT would be worth a fair few quid I'm sure.

    I wasn't aware of a rebuy issue with Sky, was there not just a chance that the player happened to have exactly the starting stack?

    Anyway, I hope you run better in the future you just need a few more muppets to try and bluff you off full houses (you probably don't remember the hand but it wasn't my best ever play, it made sense to me at the time, trying to bluff a high pocket pair on something like a JJJ97 board, when I did in fact have A7, you hade me crushed with 93 and were never folding that!)

    I waffle too much, have a good bank holiday.

    I don't know much about poker, but AA is 81% against KK, and definitely not a flip.
    you forgot to add in 60% for the @MattBates factor Haysie ;)
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,957
    Tikay10 said:


    @HAYSIE

    The point, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, (probably lost on elderly folks) was that against The Dreaded Bates it IS a flip.

    Sorry, I was in the wrong place.
    Heading back to the rail.
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    hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    Re-entries have been a thing on Sky for quite a long time now, why the sudden beef?
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    memfnomemfno Member Posts: 461
    Essexphil

    Don't often read entire threads, yours i have. I've been on an AA run like yours for quite some time (although i did crack Matt Bates AA with my AJ - all in pre blind on blind - so i guess i used all my run good on that!).
    Last night out in the main KK v A3, called A3s all in shove, flop 2 4 5. I'm amazed i still have a laptop to type this on.
    So i feel your pain on your latest run bad streak.
    Return after you've licked your wounds
    You are a better player than 90% on here, I only wish i had your skill set.
    All the best

    memf
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999

    Re-entries have been a thing on Sky for quite a long time now, why the sudden beef?

    Fair question.

    I have mentioned what started me thinking. Previously, it was something i had not given a lot of thought to.

    The next thing was the UKOPS schedule. This wasn't just Mains being Re-entry. 65 of the 70 events. £480,000 of the £500,000 guarantees.

    Then i started looking at Sharkscope. It is behind the curve. So-on Ratings for tournaments, it looks at Uniques. Not re-entries. As an example, it says that the average entrant in last night's Main has a Rating of 73.

    But what it does NOT record is the average Rating of the Re-Entries. i haven't checked for this particular tournament. But I bet it is over 83.

    What research i have done on this suggests that the disparity between Unique/Re-Entry Ratings is higher on Sky than elsewhere. The reason for this is simple. It is the Rake-free re-entry.

    I am somewhere between a Rec and a Reg. I use poker as a part-time income. My goal is simple-to maximise my income. to do that, I play wherever i perceive I have the best advantage.

    Which would you rather play in my shoes? An MTT with an average rating of 73? Or 83?
    Where the best players get the same number of seats as the Recreationals. Or more?
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,999
    edited April 2020
    memfno said:

    Essexphil

    Don't often read entire threads, yours i have. I've been on an AA run like yours for quite some time (although i did crack Matt Bates AA with my AJ - all in pre blind on blind - so i guess i used all my run good on that!).
    Last night out in the main KK v A3, called A3s all in shove, flop 2 4 5. I'm amazed i still have a laptop to type this on.
    So i feel your pain on your latest run bad streak.
    Return after you've licked your wounds
    You are a better player than 90% on here, I only wish i had your skill set.
    All the best

    memf

    That's very kind. Nasty beat, unlucky.

    Poker is about ego, in part.
    Rightly or wrongly, I think I am better than about 90% of people who play here. Which, of course, leaves the 10% ;)

    These aren't wounds. I just want to play where the top 10% only have 10% of the seats...
  • Options
    CammykazeCammykaze Member Posts: 1,397
    edited April 2020

    The next thing was the UKOPS schedule. This wasn't just Mains being Re-entry. 65 of the 70 events. £480,000 of the £500,000 guarantees.


    That is crazy! I knew it would be taking up the majority of the tourneys however those figures are mind blowing.

    I was not sure where you were going to go on the issue you had with the re-entries.

    Simply, and I am sure you will agree, at least to a point. That is not a level playing field.

    Also, these festivals attract a lot of average to good players. I have a bit of concern for these types and particularly the ones with a bit of gamble in them. They may go in thinking the fields will be softer as it's a festival when in fact it maybe the opposite.

    Freezeouts are always a level playing field and the better players will win more often as expected. It's great that the figures are impressive and I am behind Sky on most decisions. From an outsider looking in I can't say I was too excited about the UKOPS once it got going.

    Even for the good to very good players with a decent bankroll the UKOPS seems like a losing proposition. The cream always raises to the top, there was too much cream at the top for me to partake.

    On the whole I was happy to play a few more of the dailies on the assumption the fields would be a bit softer than normal. I guess it's debatable if that was indeed the case.

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