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Effects Of Brexit.

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    edited September 2021
    Alex Taylor
    @AlexTaylorNews
    "Brexit apocalypse" "Brexit chaos" "Brexit collapse"

    Front pages throughout Europe calling out UK shortages for what they are, precisely because they're not happening in the EU ...




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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261



    James Felton
    @JimMFelton
    Remember a few years ago when the Brexit minister said Brexit won’t lead to a Mad Max style dystopia and now we’re all traveling the land in a desperate quest for petrol
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    HGV driver shortage: Haulage chief hits out at Grant Shapps’ ‘illogical’ claim Brexit not to blame for crisis



    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/hgv-driver-shortage-haulage-chief-hits-out-at-grant-shapps-illogical-claim-brexit-not-to-blame-for-crisis/ar-AAOMcJR?ocid=msedgntp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    Brexit: Freedom from EU will ‘combat cost of living' says Tory MP

    Brexit: Conservative MP Ben Bradley says that freedom from the European Union will allow a dramatic fall in prices. He says 'we can combat that cost of living element.'

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/brexit-freedom-from-eu-will-combat-cost-of-living-says-tory-mp/vi-AAOMJuM?ocid=msedgntp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    The people of NI have been let down by Boris, and the DUP.

    NI Protocol port checks could be reduced by 80% – Coveney



    The number of checks on goods arriving into Northern Ireland from Great Britain could be reduced by 80%, the Irish Foreign Affairs minister has said.

    Simon Coveney said that option exists within the Northern Ireland Protocol if the UK was willing to agreed a common approach to standards in relation to veterinary practices, and sanitary and phytosanitary standards on food.


    https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-05-20/ni-protocol-port-checks-could-be-reduced-by-80-coveney
    This is what happens when you only listen to 1 side.

    Current divergence? None.
    Current planned divergence? None.
    Need for those current checks? None.
    Reason carried out? Because the UK refuses to promise that it will not diverge at some unspecified time in the future.
    When might the checks need to be done? Then. And only then. Unless you just want to be petty and vindictive.

    Got to admire a Politician who has the gall to criticise the UK for giving one-sided press briefings. While giving a one-sided press briefing.

    I'll leave you to your thread now.

    Feel free to believe that everything your country does is wrong. And everything the other side does is perfect.

    There have been many articles making the same point.

    Another u-turn?



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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    edited September 2021
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Lapping up any pro-EU stuff.

    The "UK Trade and Business Commission" tries desperately to fool people as to its basis. It is not a Parliamentary Committee-it was set up by "Best for Britain", a campaign group whose main purposes are for us to rejoin the EU and to frustrate any moves towards independence from the EU.

    53% polled did not like Boris's deal? Sure. But then the majority have voted against pretty much everything-staying in the EU, every single type of deal to leave, every party wanting to remain.

    The British public votes against everything. In short, it votes to have the omelette without breaking eggs. Doesn't prove anything. Other than the public have unrealistic expectations.

    The polls that matter-the ones that really determine the path ahead-have not gone your way.

    "Crisis facing touring musicians"? Really? So they are to be treated like everyone else wanting to do work abroad. I don't see US bands finding this to be insurmountable.

    This is just the opposite side of the coin to the likes of the ERG. Propaganda. Designed to fool the gullible.

    So you think its a good deal, and there are no real problems?

    Of course not. There only seem to be 2 sides to the debate:-
    (1) It's all brilliant, we've got our country back; and
    (2) We're all doomed

    Both are faintly ridiculous.

    The Northern Ireland bit is not going well. There needs to be renegotiation on all sides, particularly including Ireland.

    There needs to be immigration policies tailor-made for the needs of the UK. a willingness not to rely on 3rd World countries to do our dirty work. And to provide forward-looking ideas. Not rest on the laurels/defeat of 2016.
    My Secret Brexit Diary by Michel Barnier review – a British roasting



    The fourth reason for British failure was that Johnson made the disastrous tactical decision to try to provoke the EU in the hope it would be shaken, even briefing it as “the mad man strategy”. Barnier spotted this straight away. In the face of “threats and unpredictability” he decided to remain “calm, confident and solid” and just keep going. The British approach backfired spectacularly. In October 2020, David Frost cancelled negotiations and refused to resume them unless the EU publicly changed its position and recognised UK “sovereignty”. A week later he had to humiliatingly crawl back to the table. Most disastrously, the threat of a no deal fell flat. Barnier comments: “The British want us to believe that they are not afraid of a no deal”; they are playing a “game of chicken” and the EU task is to “keep our cool”. When the British resorted to reneging on what they had just agreed in the Northern Ireland Protocol and breaking international law with the Internal Market Bill, far from forcing the EU into concessions, they destroyed the little trust that still existed.

    Sadly, Northern Ireland became collateral damage in this farrago. From the beginning Barnier saw that the “Irish question is the stumbling block”. May and her chief official, Olly Robbins, tried hard to protect the Good Friday Agreement with an increasingly Heath Robinson-esque structure by which the whole UK remained in the Customs Union. But Johnson never took Northern Ireland seriously, proposing fictional technological solutions for the border. At one stage, Barnier had to tell a group of European Research Group MPs that the health of cows could not be assessed by drone. It is clear from Barnier’s account that Johnson knew absolutely what he was agreeing to when he signed up to a border in the Irish Sea. And Barnier was appalled when Johnson told the press shortly after that there would be no controls on goods between Britain and Northern Ireland – “which is not what the withdrawal agreement says”.


    “There is most definitely something wrong with the British system … every passing day shows that they have not realised the consequences of what is truly at stake here.” There ought to a be an inquiry into why, when we pride ourselves on our diplomatic prowess, we were so comprehensively defeated at the negotiation table, but this diary is probably the closest we will get.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/my-secret-brexit-diary-by-michel-barnier-review-a-british-roasting/ar-AAONF8M?ocid=msedgntp
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    tai-gartai-gar Member Posts: 2,593
    Common Sense. Having seen the queues at petrol stations this evening, a memory from some years ago popped up.

    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years.
    No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; And maybe it was my fault.
    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies - don't spend more than you can earn; and adults, not children, are in charge. His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition.
    Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
    Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
    Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
    Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust, by his wife Discretion, his daughter Responsibility, and his son Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers - I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
    If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, do nothing
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,037
    tai-gar said:

    Common Sense. Having seen the queues at petrol stations this evening, a memory from some years ago popped up.

    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years.
    No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; And maybe it was my fault.
    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies - don't spend more than you can earn; and adults, not children, are in charge. His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition.
    Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
    Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
    Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
    Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust, by his wife Discretion, his daughter Responsibility, and his son Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers - I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
    If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, do nothing

    I agree with nearly all of that. Just to briefly mention the small bits that I don't:-

    1. It is not a school's place to say when a child is pregnant/wants to have an abortion. It's also a very difficult subject;
    2. The treatment of criminals in this country has never been good. Mostly, it is downright inhumane. Which is a major reason why our reoffending rate is so bad
    3. You've always been able to use reasonable force to defend your home. Where it gets difficult is when you shoot an unarmed man. Where it gets impossible is if (as in the major case) you brag to all your mates down the pub exactly how you are going to shoot your next burglar, and then do exactly that
    4. That steaming cup of coffee case. Totally misreported. Evidence showed McD's forced franchisees to serve coffee 20 degrees hotter than everywhere else. Then tried to claim that it was necessary cos it was a driveway and commuters needed time. Whereupon McD's were shown their own survey proving that this was not true. She didn't spill a little"-she had 3rd degree burns over 6% of her body, and lesser burns over much more. No-one ever mentions all the other scalding cases, none of which have had a similar result

    The 2 bits I completely agree with are in relation to "Responsibility" and "Someone Else is to Blame".

    Why did we vote to leave the EU? In large part, it was because people were given so much bogus info. From "Red Tape" scare stories, to the EU supposedly doing all sorts of things that were made up, like bendy bananas. And that we were better off being ripped off by UK politicians than Foreign ones. Ot that people who were failing needed something to blame.

    But what has changed? Now we get people blaming every single ill on Brexit. As though that, in isolation, is the sole cause of everything.

    Pandemic? Irrelevant
    EU countries having similar problems? Ignore
    Companies failing to prepare for changes that were inevitable? No-just blame Brexit.

    Unless you are a Brexiteer. Then all the above are the only reasons, and Brexit is somehow irrelevant.

    Common sense says a coin has 2 sides.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    Essexphil said:

    tai-gar said:

    Common Sense. Having seen the queues at petrol stations this evening, a memory from some years ago popped up.

    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years.
    No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; And maybe it was my fault.
    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies - don't spend more than you can earn; and adults, not children, are in charge. His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition.
    Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
    Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
    Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
    Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust, by his wife Discretion, his daughter Responsibility, and his son Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers - I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
    If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, do nothing

    I agree with nearly all of that. Just to briefly mention the small bits that I don't:-

    1. It is not a school's place to say when a child is pregnant/wants to have an abortion. It's also a very difficult subject;
    2. The treatment of criminals in this country has never been good. Mostly, it is downright inhumane. Which is a major reason why our reoffending rate is so bad
    3. You've always been able to use reasonable force to defend your home. Where it gets difficult is when you shoot an unarmed man. Where it gets impossible is if (as in the major case) you brag to all your mates down the pub exactly how you are going to shoot your next burglar, and then do exactly that
    4. That steaming cup of coffee case. Totally misreported. Evidence showed McD's forced franchisees to serve coffee 20 degrees hotter than everywhere else. Then tried to claim that it was necessary cos it was a driveway and commuters needed time. Whereupon McD's were shown their own survey proving that this was not true. She didn't spill a little"-she had 3rd degree burns over 6% of her body, and lesser burns over much more. No-one ever mentions all the other scalding cases, none of which have had a similar result

    The 2 bits I completely agree with are in relation to "Responsibility" and "Someone Else is to Blame".

    Why did we vote to leave the EU? In large part, it was because people were given so much bogus info. From "Red Tape" scare stories, to the EU supposedly doing all sorts of things that were made up, like bendy bananas. And that we were better off being ripped off by UK politicians than Foreign ones. Ot that people who were failing needed something to blame.

    But what has changed? Now we get people blaming every single ill on Brexit. As though that, in isolation, is the sole cause of everything.

    Pandemic? Irrelevant
    EU countries having similar problems? Ignore
    Companies failing to prepare for changes that were inevitable? No-just blame Brexit.

    Unless you are a Brexiteer. Then all the above are the only reasons, and Brexit is somehow irrelevant.

    Common sense says a coin has 2 sides.
    Scapegoats.


    HGV boss accused of triggering petrol pump crisis: Ministers point the finger at ex-BBC man and diehard Remainer who 'leaked remarks made by a BP executive at a private Government meeting'




    Ministers say Rod McKenzie sparked the nationwide panic-buying frenzy by selectively leaking remarks made by a BP executive at a private UK Government meeting. Senior sources suggested he 'weaponised' the comments to deflect blame for the UK's supply chaos. Mr McKenzie, who ran BBC Radio 1's Newsbeat for more than two decades before joining the Road Haulage Association, denied the claim. As managing director of policy for the RHA, he has blamed post-Brexit immigration restrictions for the crisis in the industry and has been leading calls for the Government to lift visa restrictions to allow more foreign drivers into the country. The fuel crisis began to snowball last week after comments made by Hanna Hofer, head of BP's retail business, at a Cabinet Office meeting were leaked. On September 16, Ms Hofer told civil servants, hauliers and other industry figures that the company had 'two-thirds of normal forecourt stock levels'.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10028661/HGV-boss-accused-triggering-petrol-pump-crisis-Ministers-point-finger-ex-BBC-man.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    Essexphil said:

    The EU, the Single Market, the Good Friday Agreement, and impact on Northern Ireland politics.

    The Single Market is much misunderstood. The 1 thing that it does consistently is provide various rules within the EU member countries.

    What it does not do is set out what tariffs./rules must apply in relation to trade with non-member countries. In a better world, this would be left to the directly affected nations to sort out. This is particularly important once you leave Europe's continental land mass, and look at the islands at the edge of Europe. Like Great Britain. Or Ireland. But no-the countries that run the EU make the rules.

    Let's look at Northern Ireland. Geographically, it has 3 major sources of trade. Itself, Ireland, and Great Britain.

    Then, let's briefly look at the Good Friday Agreement. At its heart, its basic premise is that, in order to avoid various problems, the people of Northern Ireland should be free to support the UK and Ireland. As it chooses. To avoid sectarianism.

    Now let's look at the current situation in Northern Ireland. Northern Irish goods may freely be traded to Ireland. And vice versa. But-if the goods come from Great Britain, people from Northern Ireland cannot sell those goods to people from Northern Ireland. But the EU does not have to impose these rules. It just chooses to do so. Compare/contrast with French Guiana, Greenland, the UK bases of Akrotiri/Dhekelia. Lots of compromises were and are possible.

    This is not just the fault of the EU. It is doing it for political reasons. As is Boris Johnson.

    But there are significant political changes in Northern Ireland as a result. The DUP share of the vote has collapsed, causing Sinn Fein to be comfortably the largest party in NI. The Unionist vote, having deserted the DUP, is going in 2 directions. Firstly, to the UUP-a moderate, left-leaning Party. But.

    The Party that has risen from nowhere to 3rd place in the polls is the TUV-the Traditional Unionist Voice. A group that make UKIP/the DUP look left wing and inclusive. Being given effective support by the machinations of the Conservatives and the EU.

    'Brexit is the problem!' EU Commissioner slams 'irresponsible' Britain over protocol row



    "Because I think the one word we forget to say is the problem is Brexit. The protocol is the solution, and the difficulties in its implementation can be resolved.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexit-is-the-problem-eu-commissioner-slams-irresponsible-britain-over-protocol-row/ar-AAOPwqB?ocid=msedgntp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    edited September 2021
    You caused this! EU chief launches furious attack over Boris Johnson's Brexit deal


    Eurocrats are due to set out a package of measures to try and solve the problems of the Northern Ireland Protocol in the next few weeks.

    These are expected to include radical changes to the licensing and distribution of medicines in the region, which involve the bloc changing its own laws.



    They regard the additional checks on goods arriving in the region from the rest of the UK as a border in the Irish Sea.

    The MLA and Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) leader told BBC Sunday Politics Northern Ireland: "At the end of it, are we still left in a foreign single market for goods, subject to a foreign customs code, overseen by a foreign laws that we don't make and can't change, and adjudicated upon by a foreign court?.

    "If changes do not pass that test, then they go nowhere because they do not resolve the sovereignty issue."

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/you-caused-this-eu-chief-launches-furious-attack-over-boris-johnson-s-brexit-deal/ar-AAOPXfA?ocid=msedgntp
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,037
    In shock news, 1 side says it's all the other side's fault when 2 sides agree to a bad deal.

    In less shocking news, some people are too busy shouting from their Remain/Leave trenches to accept this.

    The EU need to realise that the UK are between a rock and a hard place. All fine and well finger-pointing-rather nastier things than fingers are becoming increasingly likely to be pointed soon.

    As things stand, unless the EU/UK come to a pragmatic deal in relation to NI, the future is looking bleak.

    There needs to be a compromise whereby:-

    1. Some goods need to be agreed to be checked before going to NI;
    2. Some goods need to be agreed to be checked before going to Ireland;
    3. Some goods should not need to be checked unless leaving the island of Ireland
    4. Ireland needs financial assistance from both the EU and the UK in relation to 2/3

    If that does not happen, the UK looks like it has 2 bad choices-

    (1) Pull NI out of the Single Market; or
    (2) Hope and Pray that the more moderate parties in NI hold sway going forward
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,261
    edited September 2021
    Essexphil said:

    In shock news, 1 side says it's all the other side's fault when 2 sides agree to a bad deal.

    In less shocking news, some people are too busy shouting from their Remain/Leave trenches to accept this.

    The EU need to realise that the UK are between a rock and a hard place. All fine and well finger-pointing-rather nastier things than fingers are becoming increasingly likely to be pointed soon.

    As things stand, unless the EU/UK come to a pragmatic deal in relation to NI, the future is looking bleak.

    There needs to be a compromise whereby:-

    1. Some goods need to be agreed to be checked before going to NI;
    2. Some goods need to be agreed to be checked before going to Ireland;
    3. Some goods should not need to be checked unless leaving the island of Ireland
    4. Ireland needs financial assistance from both the EU and the UK in relation to 2/3

    If that does not happen, the UK looks like it has 2 bad choices-

    (1) Pull NI out of the Single Market; or
    (2) Hope and Pray that the more moderate parties in NI hold sway going forward

    Trying to avoid the same old ground, I am not sure how much the above will help.
    Some checks were conducted while we were members, but these were unobtrusively carried out on ferries.
    However there seems to be a backlash against the existence of the border.
    Any border, and on principle.
    The threats made against border staff had nothing to with the number of checks, or which products needed to be checked.
    I would guess that it is in the interests of some politicians, as well as other interested parties to sew the seeds of unrest due to the fact a border exists.
    The current situation will be exacerbated next year.
    If you pull NI out of the SM, the border will still exist
    If the whole of the UK became a third country more checks would surely be required rather than less.
    Checks would also be required between NI and Ireland going both ways.

    I think that avoiding unrest means doing away with the border.
    No border would be needed if the whole of the UK was in the SM/CU.
    Although this would seem extremely unlikely.
    A point made in a couple of the articles above is one I have made a number of times, which is that Brexit is the problem, and the protocol is the solution.
    Boris chose the solution.

    "At the end of it, are we still left in a foreign single market for goods, subject to a foreign customs code, overseen by a foreign laws that we don't make and can't change, and adjudicated upon by a foreign court?.



    We have had 5 years since the referendum to get ready for this, and we are still nowhere near.
    There dont seem to be complaints on the EU side.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,037
    edited September 2021
    Trying to avoid the same old ground, I am not sure how much the above will help.
    Some checks were conducted while we were members, but these were unobtrusively carried out on ferries.
    However there seems to be a backlash against the existence of the border.
    Any border, and on principle.
    The threats made against border staff had nothing to with the number of checks, or which products needed to be checked.
    I would guess that it is in the interests of some politicians, as well as other interested parties to sew the seeds of unrest due to the fact a border exists.
    The current situation will be exacerbated next year.
    If you pull NI out of the SM, the border will still exist
    If the whole of the UK became a third country more checks would surely be required rather than less.
    Checks would also be required between NI and Ireland going both ways.

    I think that avoiding unrest means doing away with the border.
    No border would be needed if the whole of the UK was in the SM/CU.
    Although this would seem extremely unlikely.
    A point made in a couple of the articles above is one I have made a number of times, which is that Brexit is the problem, and the protocol is the solution.
    Boris chose the solution.

    "At the end of it, are we still left in a foreign single market for goods, subject to a foreign customs code, overseen by a foreign laws that we don't make and can't change, and adjudicated upon by a foreign court?.



    We have had 5 years since the referendum to get ready for this, and we are still nowhere near.
    There dont seem to be complaints on the EU side.

    You do not believe that compromise is the best way forward.

    You persist in believing that the only "solution" is for the UK to capitulate, and bow down to the Single Market. Disregarding that that would be impossible to achieve.

    That everything done in the EU is the right way forward. And that everything that the UK does is wrong.

    Like someone else used to do. In the 1940s. Forget his name. Was it Lord Hay Hay?

    It is not "extremely unlikely" that the whole of the UK joins the SM. It is politically impossible.

    In the 5 years since we voted to leave, precisely no party has stood on a campaign ticket of "Leave plus Single Market". There have, as a result, been precisely no votes cast in favour of it. You could certainly argue that Labour should have adopted this position in the 2017/19 elections. But they did not. And we can't turn back time. Next time anyone could even begin that process would be 2024.

    The Conservatives stand firmly against the SM. They have won the last 2 elections on that very platform. In 2019, by a country mile. Any leader who reneged on that would be up before the 1922 Committee and asked to resign in 5 minutes flat. It will not happen.

    You quote the TUV as though they support your side. The Party of Ian Paisley of the 1970s. Not the later, improved version. That are the Party in NI supported by Nigel Farage. That are making the case for tearing up the Good Friday Agreement. That want to ban Sinn Fein as a political party. And move further away from Europe than almost everybody would wish.

    Brexit is more than a "problem". It is a choice. And a choice that has been made.
    The protocol is not "the solution"-it is an attempt to provide a compromise, and provide a solution. That is not working. Because of the intransigence and flag waving of BOTH sides. Unless progress is made, there will have to be a Plan B.

    There is no need for border checks on both sides of the border in Ireland. We, unlike the EU, do not adopt a slavish adherence to the protectionist mantra of a Single Market. We are free to allow the people of Ireland to do what they want in relation to trade with the UK in general, and NI in particular. It is open to us to withdraw from the SM in NI, give the Irish Free Trade on our side, and leave it to them what will be the best way forward in relation to the Good Friday Agreement and border checks. While we have none. That is the sort of thing that countries that are not beholdent on other nations can do.

    There are lots of complaints on the EU side. Just not from the current ruling political parties. Do you really think that every person in the EU believes that the EU has their interests at heart? Or that the EU is better than their own country? Or that businesses that rely on UK trade do not wish that barriers were removed?
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