The NI Protocol can never be the long-term solution to this problem.
As things stand, someone in NI (which is not in the EU) cannot freely sell something to another person in NI (still not in the EU) if the product contains goods that might come from the UK (still not in the EU).
This is because "checks" need to be carried out to ensure that the UK is complying with EU rules-despite the fact that (behind the patriotic bluster) we have not diverged from any EU rule in relation to foodstuff.
I appreciate that there is supposedly a "risk" that people from Ireland might purchase an identical product from NI instead of Ireland. Although I fail to see why that should be our problem.
Perhaps I am being naive. But (to me) the solution sounds really simple. Producers from GB wishing to export to NI to have 2 choices. Firstly, to confirm that their processes conform to EU standards. Or to confirm they do not, and checks to take place.
And if that is not good enough for the EU, they can try banning the people from Ireland from buying Northern Irish goods. That will work
Avoids all the English flag-waving and Irish vote-winning by attacking the English.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
The NI Protocol can never be the long-term solution to this problem.
As things stand, someone in NI (which is not in the EU) cannot freely sell something to another person in NI (still not in the EU) if the product contains goods that might come from the UK (still not in the EU).
This is because "checks" need to be carried out to ensure that the UK is complying with EU rules-despite the fact that (behind the patriotic bluster) we have not diverged from any EU rule in relation to foodstuff.
I appreciate that there is supposedly a "risk" that people from Ireland might purchase an identical product from NI instead of Ireland. Although I fail to see why that should be our problem.
Perhaps I am being naive. But (to me) the solution sounds really simple. Producers from GB wishing to export to NI to have 2 choices. Firstly, to confirm that their processes conform to EU standards. Or to confirm they do not, and checks to take place.
And if that is not good enough for the EU, they can try banning the people from Ireland from buying Northern Irish goods. That will work
Avoids all the English flag-waving and Irish vote-winning by attacking the English.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
The fact is that Boris is the author of the protocol. It replaced Theresa Mays backstop. So he was the author and agreed to it. Now I have heard lots of criticism of the EU, but very little, if any, that is justified in respect of the protocol. How can one side possibly criticise the other for wanting the agreed rules to be implemented? Two years on, and we are still dragging our feet in respect of implementing these rules.
The Unionists wont accept a border at any price. For them any checks symbolise a border, which separates them from the rest of the UK. Boris of course assured them that no Irish Sea border would be created, and they foolishly believed him.
You say that NI is not in the EU, but we have left them in the customs union and single market, and therefore EU rules apply to them, as does the ECJ. How much more in the EU could you be without being a member. You say there has been no divergence from EU rules in respect of foodstuff, yet they clearly have different rules for imports from third countries than they do for members. Some checks were required between NI/GB, while we were members
The fundamental problem lies with Brexit. Brexit created the need for a border between the UK, and EU. The obvious place would have been a land border on the island of Ireland. We all know why this was not possible, but from an administration point of view this would have been ideal. The only other option is an Irish Sea border. Once you implement this the Unionists are up in arms. The protocol could be voted down at Stormont, but what is the alternative? Where else could you put the border?
You say there has been no divergence in standards on foodstuffs, but Liz Truss has been busy doing trade deals with countries that dont comply with these standards. This will result in food imports into the UK, that dont comply with EU standards. More deals will be done. So are you expecting the EU to u-turn on the protocol rules for a minute, and have a team of people on stand by to renegotiate these rules on a regular basis, as we diverge.
As far as I can see the EU have bent over backwards to help. They have reduced the number of checks required in NI by 80%, and been sensible on medicines. This was in addition to allowing NI to stay in the customs union and single market, free of charge. What on earth would we have done if they hadnt? It is really difficult to ignore that anything arriving in NI unchecked can be driven over the border again unchecked into the EU proper.
When you refer to the "risk" whose problem do you think it is then? Didnt we leave the EU, rather than they left us?
In your naive solution, would you suggest that customs check the products that comply, or the ones that dont, or both of them just to make sure?
If the protocol is not the long term solution, what is?
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
I agree. I think that the best solution would be a united Ireland with an option for them to be part of the UK or not whichever they decide.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
I agree. I think that the best solution would be a united Ireland with an option for them to be part of the UK or not whichever they decide.
At some point they will probably vote to either stay part of the UK, or become a United Ireland, but it will be either or. A United Ireland would solve the protocol problem. Although I am not sure how it would affect the checks. All our exports into Ireland would be from a third country into the EU, presumably without an agreement to reduce the number of checks. So this may result in the protocol being ripped up, but more checks, paperwork, customs declarations, costs etc.
As far as I can see the EU have bent over backwards to help. They have reduced the number of checks required in NI by 80%, and been sensible on medicines. This was in addition to allowing NI to stay in the customs union and single market, free of charge. What on earth would we have done if they hadnt? It is really difficult to ignore that anything arriving in NI unchecked can be driven over the border again unchecked into the EU proper.
When you refer to the "risk" whose problem do you think it is then? Didnt we leave the EU, rather than they left us?
In your naive solution, would you suggest that customs check the products that comply, or the ones that dont, or both of them just to make sure?
If the protocol is not the long term solution, what is?
We might well be the first sovereign nation to leave the EU. But we are not the first territory to leave the EU. That would be Greenland. It joined the EU as part of Denmark at the same time as us-1973. It voted to leave the EU in 1982, and left in 1985.
Compare and contrast the different ways Greenland was treated. It did not leave the EU over political ideology (at least as far as the EU is concerned). It was far simpler than that. It left on 1 issue, and 1 issue alone. It left because it refused to abide by the EU's Common Fisheries Policy. In short, it wanted its own control over what waters belonged to Greenland rather than the EU solution, and it wanted to catch and process fish according to its own rules. Not those of the EU.
Far and away Greenland's biggest export is fish. Far and away it's biggest customer is the EU. But, due to its status as OCT, there seem to be little or no checks on its exports. The Common Fisheries Policy does not apply to them. And, when it suits them, they can declare themselves Danish for EU handouts and freedom of movement.
Greenland are not unique in this relationship. The one that is unique is Northern Ireland.
There are special rules for countries "in" the EU on almost every Continent. North America (Greenland). Central America (Aruba, Guadeloupe amongst others). South America-(French Guiana). Africa La Reunion, and the Spanish enclaves bordering Morocco). Australasia (New Caledonia, French Polynesia).
In Europe there are various exemptions given to countries because they are on the Western edge of Europe.Azores, Madeira, the Canary Islands. Last time I checked, Northern Ireland were pretty close to the Western edge of Europe.
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
As far as I can see the EU have bent over backwards to help. They have reduced the number of checks required in NI by 80%, and been sensible on medicines. This was in addition to allowing NI to stay in the customs union and single market, free of charge. What on earth would we have done if they hadnt? It is really difficult to ignore that anything arriving in NI unchecked can be driven over the border again unchecked into the EU proper.
When you refer to the "risk" whose problem do you think it is then? Didnt we leave the EU, rather than they left us?
In your naive solution, would you suggest that customs check the products that comply, or the ones that dont, or both of them just to make sure?
If the protocol is not the long term solution, what is?
We might well be the first sovereign nation to leave the EU. But we are not the first territory to leave the EU. That would be Greenland. It joined the EU as part of Denmark at the same time as us-1973. It voted to leave the EU in 1982, and left in 1985.
Compare and contrast the different ways Greenland was treated. It did not leave the EU over political ideology (at least as far as the EU is concerned). It was far simpler than that. It left on 1 issue, and 1 issue alone. It left because it refused to abide by the EU's Common Fisheries Policy. In short, it wanted its own control over what waters belonged to Greenland rather than the EU solution, and it wanted to catch and process fish according to its own rules. Not those of the EU.
Far and away Greenland's biggest export is fish. Far and away it's biggest customer is the EU. But, due to its status as OCT, there seem to be little or no checks on its exports. The Common Fisheries Policy does not apply to them. And, when it suits them, they can declare themselves Danish for EU handouts and freedom of movement.
Greenland are not unique in this relationship. The one that is unique is Northern Ireland.
There are special rules for countries "in" the EU on almost every Continent. North America (Greenland). Central America (Aruba, Guadeloupe amongst others). South America-(French Guiana). Africa La Reunion, and the Spanish enclaves bordering Morocco). Australasia (New Caledonia, French Polynesia).
In Europe there are various exemptions given to countries because they are on the Western edge of Europe.Azores, Madeira, the Canary Islands. Last time I checked, Northern Ireland were pretty close to the Western edge of Europe.
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique. I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem. So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem. In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market, The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union. So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them. They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
Holidaymakers face Dover traffic queues of up to 17 MILES under new EU rules that would force tourists to get out of their car for biometric checks
British tourists headed for city breaks in Paris or sunny getaways in Spain in September could be hit by new biometric checks set to be required at the border. A nightmare scenario where the new rules are enforced without a solution could see tourist traffic at Dover grind to a halt, chief executive Doug Bannister warned. Previously there have also been fears the new border checks could lead to 17-mile tailbacks in Dover - and time could be running out to fix the problem.
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique. I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem. So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem. In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market, The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union. So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them. They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
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No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique. I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem. So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem. In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market, The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union. So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them. They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
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No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
I would agree that Johnson is a cretin. I think the EU has bent over backwards to help and not been vindictive. I believe that the NI situation is unique. I dont believe there is an example anywhere in the world where two different customs territories meet, where there isnt a trade border and customs checks. WTO rules insist on this. You seem to be ignoring the fact the checks required, were only those that we agreed to. All the EU seemed to be asking for is the implementation of what we have agreed. We have unilaterally extended grace periods on this, time after time, yet the EU are still talking to us. Despite our continual taking of the pi55, they have reduced checks by 80%, and resolved the medicines issue. How could that be vindictive.
As I said earlier The Unionists wont wear a border at any price. This is despite the fact that there were checks between GB/NI when we were members.
Now that the border has been created how do you get rid of it?
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique. I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem. So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem. In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market, The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union. So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them. They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
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No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
What would have happened if the EU had refused to allow NI to remain in the customs union/single market?
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique. I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem. So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem. In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market, The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union. So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them. They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
............................................
No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
‘No regrets' Barnier urges Boris Johnson to stick to hated Brexit deal in attack on PM
In a blunt attack on Boris Johnson, he added: "In good faith, we thought that an agreement so precisely negotiated during four and a half years ... should be respected by both parties.
"An agreement is not a speech, it is a treaty."
He continued: "Mr Johnson is a skilled and experienced politician, he has around him very high-quality civil servants ... they know exactly what they signed up for and they are the ones who negotiated.
"The content is detailed, it was negotiated down to the comma.
"The British government has very consciously accepted this complicated solution which preserves the all-Ireland economy, protects the internal market, provides the controls we need and keeps the peace.
"The British government must adopt a pragmatic attitude, without ideology, in order to find practical solutions."
The visit came amid continued warnings from the main unionist party, the DUP, that it will walk away from the devolved institutions at Stormont if major changes to the Irish Sea border trading arrangements are not secured rapidly.
"We need a long-term sustainable deal which ensures stability, certainty and affordability for the broader business community in Northern Ireland.
"Continuing to ensure full access to the EU single market is essential as part of any deal."
The NI Protocol can never be the long-term solution to this problem.
As things stand, someone in NI (which is not in the EU) cannot freely sell something to another person in NI (still not in the EU) if the product contains goods that might come from the UK (still not in the EU).
This is because "checks" need to be carried out to ensure that the UK is complying with EU rules-despite the fact that (behind the patriotic bluster) we have not diverged from any EU rule in relation to foodstuff.
I appreciate that there is supposedly a "risk" that people from Ireland might purchase an identical product from NI instead of Ireland. Although I fail to see why that should be our problem.
Perhaps I am being naive. But (to me) the solution sounds really simple. Producers from GB wishing to export to NI to have 2 choices. Firstly, to confirm that their processes conform to EU standards. Or to confirm they do not, and checks to take place.
And if that is not good enough for the EU, they can try banning the people from Ireland from buying Northern Irish goods. That will work
Avoids all the English flag-waving and Irish vote-winning by attacking the English.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
‘Benefits of Brexit’ paper to set out plans for future deregulation
The NI Protocol can never be the long-term solution to this problem.
As things stand, someone in NI (which is not in the EU) cannot freely sell something to another person in NI (still not in the EU) if the product contains goods that might come from the UK (still not in the EU).
This is because "checks" need to be carried out to ensure that the UK is complying with EU rules-despite the fact that (behind the patriotic bluster) we have not diverged from any EU rule in relation to foodstuff.
I appreciate that there is supposedly a "risk" that people from Ireland might purchase an identical product from NI instead of Ireland. Although I fail to see why that should be our problem.
Perhaps I am being naive. But (to me) the solution sounds really simple. Producers from GB wishing to export to NI to have 2 choices. Firstly, to confirm that their processes conform to EU standards. Or to confirm they do not, and checks to take place.
And if that is not good enough for the EU, they can try banning the people from Ireland from buying Northern Irish goods. That will work
Avoids all the English flag-waving and Irish vote-winning by attacking the English.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
Brexit: Irish Sea border checks 'not fit for purpose'
The system for checks on agri-foods at Northern Ireland's sea ports is "not fit for purpose", according to an audit carried out by the European Commission.
The draft report, based on examinations in June last year, said the processes did not comply with EU rules.
It said the root of the problem was inadequate resources.
Under the Brexit deal, certain goods need to be checked when they enter Northern Ireland from Great Britain, which is no longer in the EU.
As part of that deal - known as the protocol - Northern Ireland remained aligned with the EU single market for goods as a way to ensure the free movement of trade across the Irish border.
Checks on GB goods take place at Northern Ireland ports to make sure they comply with EU laws.
A simple guide to the Brexit border problem The commission's audit said the checks could not "provide sufficient assurances that only compliant animals and goods are permitted to enter the EU SPS (Sanitary and Phytosanitary) area through the designated border control posts in Northern Ireland".
It said the main issue was a lack of resources.
The report said the UK government had "failed to ensure that sufficient resources - human and structural - have been made available to the responsible competent authorities in Northern Ireland".
The recommendations include:
Introduction of proper facilities Ensuring the authorities have or have access to a sufficient number of suitably-qualified staff Better information sharing Better systems for checking pets and personal agri-food products
Unionists are strongly opposed to the Irish Sea border checks because they do not want Northern Ireland to be treated differently to the rest of the UK.
Earlier this week, Stormont's Agriculture Minister Edwin Poots took the first step in his bid to halt the checks.
He submitted a paper to seek executive approval for the border checks to continue.
He has threatened to halt the checks if the paper is blocked from the next meeting of ministers, something which Sinn Féin has vowed it will do.
It comes ahead of a legal challenge which argues the checks are controversial and cut across various departments, so would need executive approval.
The NI Protocol can never be the long-term solution to this problem.
As things stand, someone in NI (which is not in the EU) cannot freely sell something to another person in NI (still not in the EU) if the product contains goods that might come from the UK (still not in the EU).
This is because "checks" need to be carried out to ensure that the UK is complying with EU rules-despite the fact that (behind the patriotic bluster) we have not diverged from any EU rule in relation to foodstuff.
I appreciate that there is supposedly a "risk" that people from Ireland might purchase an identical product from NI instead of Ireland. Although I fail to see why that should be our problem.
Perhaps I am being naive. But (to me) the solution sounds really simple. Producers from GB wishing to export to NI to have 2 choices. Firstly, to confirm that their processes conform to EU standards. Or to confirm they do not, and checks to take place.
And if that is not good enough for the EU, they can try banning the people from Ireland from buying Northern Irish goods. That will work
Avoids all the English flag-waving and Irish vote-winning by attacking the English.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
Brexit: What's the Northern Ireland Protocol?
Why does the UK want to change the protocol? Despite signing up to the agreement in 2019, the UK government now says the protocol represented a huge compromise by the UK and has accused the EU of applying it too rigidly.
The UK is calling for changes, which include:
Getting rid of checks and paperwork between Great Britain and Northern Ireland Ensuring that goods that remain in Northern Ireland only need to meet British standards without also needing to comply with EU law Removing the role the European Commission and the European Court of Justice have in overseeing how the protocol works
What has the EU proposed? The EU has set out proposals, but says a renegotiation of the text of the Protocol is out of the question:
An 80% reduction in checks on food products arriving in Northern Ireland, as well as halving the amount of paperwork involved. Reduce the customs information firms need to provide Pass legislation to allow the trade in medicines between GB and Northern Ireland to continue Relax rules so chilled meats, such as sausages, could still be sent across the Irish Sea. In return, the EU wants extra safeguards to prevent products from Great Britain crossing into the Republic of Ireland.
Comments
As things stand, someone in NI (which is not in the EU) cannot freely sell something to another person in NI (still not in the EU) if the product contains goods that might come from the UK (still not in the EU).
This is because "checks" need to be carried out to ensure that the UK is complying with EU rules-despite the fact that (behind the patriotic bluster) we have not diverged from any EU rule in relation to foodstuff.
I appreciate that there is supposedly a "risk" that people from Ireland might purchase an identical product from NI instead of Ireland. Although I fail to see why that should be our problem.
Perhaps I am being naive. But (to me) the solution sounds really simple. Producers from GB wishing to export to NI to have 2 choices. Firstly, to confirm that their processes conform to EU standards. Or to confirm they do not, and checks to take place.
And if that is not good enough for the EU, they can try banning the people from Ireland from buying Northern Irish goods. That will work
Avoids all the English flag-waving and Irish vote-winning by attacking the English.
If we cannot agree that, then there needs to be a radical change. NI needs either to become part of Ireland or a genuine part of the UK, like everywhere else in the UK.
It replaced Theresa Mays backstop.
So he was the author and agreed to it.
Now I have heard lots of criticism of the EU, but very little, if any, that is justified in respect of the protocol.
How can one side possibly criticise the other for wanting the agreed rules to be implemented?
Two years on, and we are still dragging our feet in respect of implementing these rules.
The Unionists wont accept a border at any price.
For them any checks symbolise a border, which separates them from the rest of the UK.
Boris of course assured them that no Irish Sea border would be created, and they foolishly believed him.
You say that NI is not in the EU, but we have left them in the customs union and single market, and therefore EU rules apply to them, as does the ECJ.
How much more in the EU could you be without being a member.
You say there has been no divergence from EU rules in respect of foodstuff, yet they clearly have different rules for imports from third countries than they do for members.
Some checks were required between NI/GB, while we were members
The fundamental problem lies with Brexit.
Brexit created the need for a border between the UK, and EU.
The obvious place would have been a land border on the island of Ireland.
We all know why this was not possible, but from an administration point of view this would have been ideal.
The only other option is an Irish Sea border.
Once you implement this the Unionists are up in arms.
The protocol could be voted down at Stormont, but what is the alternative?
Where else could you put the border?
You say there has been no divergence in standards on foodstuffs, but Liz Truss has been busy doing trade deals with countries that dont comply with these standards.
This will result in food imports into the UK, that dont comply with EU standards.
More deals will be done.
So are you expecting the EU to u-turn on the protocol rules for a minute, and have a team of people on stand by to renegotiate these rules on a regular basis, as we diverge.
As far as I can see the EU have bent over backwards to help.
They have reduced the number of checks required in NI by 80%, and been sensible on medicines.
This was in addition to allowing NI to stay in the customs union and single market, free of charge.
What on earth would we have done if they hadnt?
It is really difficult to ignore that anything arriving in NI unchecked can be driven over the border again unchecked into the EU proper.
When you refer to the "risk" whose problem do you think it is then?
Didnt we leave the EU, rather than they left us?
In your naive solution, would you suggest that customs check the products that comply, or the ones that dont, or both of them just to make sure?
If the protocol is not the long term solution, what is?
I agree. I think that the best solution would be a united Ireland with an option for them to be part of the UK or not whichever they decide.
A United Ireland would solve the protocol problem.
Although I am not sure how it would affect the checks.
All our exports into Ireland would be from a third country into the EU, presumably without an agreement to reduce the number of checks.
So this may result in the protocol being ripped up, but more checks, paperwork, customs declarations, costs etc.
As far as I can see the EU have bent over backwards to help.
They have reduced the number of checks required in NI by 80%, and been sensible on medicines.
This was in addition to allowing NI to stay in the customs union and single market, free of charge.
What on earth would we have done if they hadnt?
It is really difficult to ignore that anything arriving in NI unchecked can be driven over the border again unchecked into the EU proper.
When you refer to the "risk" whose problem do you think it is then?
Didnt we leave the EU, rather than they left us?
In your naive solution, would you suggest that customs check the products that comply, or the ones that dont, or both of them just to make sure?
If the protocol is not the long term solution, what is?
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We might well be the first sovereign nation to leave the EU. But we are not the first territory to leave the EU. That would be Greenland. It joined the EU as part of Denmark at the same time as us-1973. It voted to leave the EU in 1982, and left in 1985.
Compare and contrast the different ways Greenland was treated. It did not leave the EU over political ideology (at least as far as the EU is concerned). It was far simpler than that. It left on 1 issue, and 1 issue alone. It left because it refused to abide by the EU's Common Fisheries Policy. In short, it wanted its own control over what waters belonged to Greenland rather than the EU solution, and it wanted to catch and process fish according to its own rules. Not those of the EU.
Far and away Greenland's biggest export is fish. Far and away it's biggest customer is the EU. But, due to its status as OCT, there seem to be little or no checks on its exports. The Common Fisheries Policy does not apply to them. And, when it suits them, they can declare themselves Danish for EU handouts and freedom of movement.
Greenland are not unique in this relationship. The one that is unique is Northern Ireland.
There are special rules for countries "in" the EU on almost every Continent. North America (Greenland). Central America (Aruba, Guadeloupe amongst others). South America-(French Guiana). Africa La Reunion, and the Spanish enclaves bordering Morocco). Australasia (New Caledonia, French Polynesia).
In Europe there are various exemptions given to countries because they are on the Western edge of Europe.Azores, Madeira, the Canary Islands. Last time I checked, Northern Ireland were pretty close to the Western edge of Europe.
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
We might well be the first sovereign nation to leave the EU. But we are not the first territory to leave the EU. That would be Greenland. It joined the EU as part of Denmark at the same time as us-1973. It voted to leave the EU in 1982, and left in 1985.
Compare and contrast the different ways Greenland was treated. It did not leave the EU over political ideology (at least as far as the EU is concerned). It was far simpler than that. It left on 1 issue, and 1 issue alone. It left because it refused to abide by the EU's Common Fisheries Policy. In short, it wanted its own control over what waters belonged to Greenland rather than the EU solution, and it wanted to catch and process fish according to its own rules. Not those of the EU.
Far and away Greenland's biggest export is fish. Far and away it's biggest customer is the EU. But, due to its status as OCT, there seem to be little or no checks on its exports. The Common Fisheries Policy does not apply to them. And, when it suits them, they can declare themselves Danish for EU handouts and freedom of movement.
Greenland are not unique in this relationship. The one that is unique is Northern Ireland.
There are special rules for countries "in" the EU on almost every Continent. North America (Greenland). Central America (Aruba, Guadeloupe amongst others). South America-(French Guiana). Africa La Reunion, and the Spanish enclaves bordering Morocco). Australasia (New Caledonia, French Polynesia).
In Europe there are various exemptions given to countries because they are on the Western edge of Europe.Azores, Madeira, the Canary Islands. Last time I checked, Northern Ireland were pretty close to the Western edge of Europe.
All of these other countries are trusted to strike the right balance between being in and out of Europe without massive checks. Only 1 is not-Northern Ireland.
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique.
I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem.
So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem.
In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market,
The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union.
So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them.
They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/dup-exposing-itself-to-public-ridicule-with-port-checks-threat-o-neill/ar-AATctyD?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/must-go-completely-brexit-outrage-erupts-as-truss-jets-overseas-for-crunch-eu-talks/ar-AATd6D6?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/topstories/uk-eu-trade-talks-put-on-pause-as-johnson-uncertainty-persists/ar-AATcSu5?ocid=msedgntp
British tourists headed for city breaks in Paris or sunny getaways in Spain in September could be hit by new biometric checks set to be required at the border. A nightmare scenario where the new rules are enforced without a solution could see tourist traffic at Dover grind to a halt, chief executive Doug Bannister warned. Previously there have also been fears the new border checks could lead to 17-mile tailbacks in Dover - and time could be running out to fix the problem.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10451639/Holidaymakers-face-Dover-traffic-queues-WORSE-truckers.html
The protocol was the brainchild of an inveterate liar-Boris Johnson. Who only cared about Brexit being "done". He saw the difficulties where May told the truth. So he lied. Does not mean we are stuck with it for ever. Or that we are going to turn back time and rejoin the EU.
Join the EEA? I wish. That would be the natural compromise. But first we need a different Government.
You can come up with as many comparisons as you want, but as you said NI is unique.
I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem.
So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem.
In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market,
The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union.
So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them.
They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
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No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem.
So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem.
In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market,
The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union.
So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them.
They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
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No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
I would agree that Johnson is a cretin.
I think the EU has bent over backwards to help and not been vindictive.
I believe that the NI situation is unique.
I dont believe there is an example anywhere in the world where two different customs territories meet, where there isnt a trade border and customs checks.
WTO rules insist on this.
You seem to be ignoring the fact the checks required, were only those that we agreed to.
All the EU seemed to be asking for is the implementation of what we have agreed.
We have unilaterally extended grace periods on this, time after time, yet the EU are still talking to us.
Despite our continual taking of the pi55, they have reduced checks by 80%, and resolved the medicines issue.
How could that be vindictive.
As I said earlier The Unionists wont wear a border at any price.
This is despite the fact that there were checks between GB/NI when we were members.
Now that the border has been created how do you get rid of it?
I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem.
So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem.
In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market,
The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union.
So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them.
They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
............................................
No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
What would have happened if the EU had refused to allow NI to remain in the customs union/single market?
I have said a number of times that if we ripped up the EU agreement, and traded with the whole world on WTO rules we would have the same problem.
So it is not an EU problem it is a Brexit problem.
In the absence of a land border in Ireland, the EU are entitled to demand checks in NI, on goods that may reach the single market,
The creation of the Irish Sea border could not have worked without NI being allowed to stay in the single market/customs union.
So we have said to the EU, thanks for allowing NI to stay in both, we agree to all the rules, and then kick off when they complain about our refusal to implement them.
They have reduced the checks by 80%, and we still arent happy.
............................................
No. I am not saying that NI is unique. It is not. It is being treated differently to every other comparable case. For 2 reasons. Firstly, Johnson is a cretin. And second, the EU are being needlessly vindictive.
‘No regrets' Barnier urges Boris Johnson to stick to hated Brexit deal in attack on PM
In a blunt attack on Boris Johnson, he added: "In good faith, we thought that an agreement so precisely negotiated during four and a half years ... should be respected by both parties.
"An agreement is not a speech, it is a treaty."
He continued: "Mr Johnson is a skilled and experienced politician, he has around him very high-quality civil servants ... they know exactly what they signed up for and they are the ones who negotiated.
"The content is detailed, it was negotiated down to the comma.
"The British government has very consciously accepted this complicated solution which preserves the all-Ireland economy, protects the internal market, provides the controls we need and keeps the peace.
"The British government must adopt a pragmatic attitude, without ideology, in order to find practical solutions."
The visit came amid continued warnings from the main unionist party, the DUP, that it will walk away from the devolved institutions at Stormont if major changes to the Irish Sea border trading arrangements are not secured rapidly.
"We need a long-term sustainable deal which ensures stability, certainty and affordability for the broader business community in Northern Ireland.
"Continuing to ensure full access to the EU single market is essential as part of any deal."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/no-regrets-barnier-urges-boris-johnson-to-stick-to-hated-brexit-deal-in-attack-on-pm/ar-AATevb0?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/liz-truss-says-government-won-t-stop-dup-from-suspending-brexit-checks/ar-AATeMCr?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/topstories/benefits-of-brexit-paper-to-set-out-plans-for-future-deregulation/ar-AATfkQ0?ocid=msedgntp
The system for checks on agri-foods at Northern Ireland's sea ports is "not fit for purpose", according to an audit carried out by the European Commission.
The draft report, based on examinations in June last year, said the processes did not comply with EU rules.
It said the root of the problem was inadequate resources.
Under the Brexit deal, certain goods need to be checked when they enter Northern Ireland from Great Britain, which is no longer in the EU.
As part of that deal - known as the protocol - Northern Ireland remained aligned with the EU single market for goods as a way to ensure the free movement of trade across the Irish border.
Checks on GB goods take place at Northern Ireland ports to make sure they comply with EU laws.
A simple guide to the Brexit border problem
The commission's audit said the checks could not "provide sufficient assurances that only compliant animals and goods are permitted to enter the EU SPS (Sanitary and Phytosanitary) area through the designated border control posts in Northern Ireland".
It said the main issue was a lack of resources.
The report said the UK government had "failed to ensure that sufficient resources - human and structural - have been made available to the responsible competent authorities in Northern Ireland".
The recommendations include:
Introduction of proper facilities
Ensuring the authorities have or have access to a sufficient number of suitably-qualified staff
Better information sharing
Better systems for checking pets and personal agri-food products
Unionists are strongly opposed to the Irish Sea border checks because they do not want Northern Ireland to be treated differently to the rest of the UK.
Earlier this week, Stormont's Agriculture Minister Edwin Poots took the first step in his bid to halt the checks.
He submitted a paper to seek executive approval for the border checks to continue.
He has threatened to halt the checks if the paper is blocked from the next meeting of ministers, something which Sinn Féin has vowed it will do.
It comes ahead of a legal challenge which argues the checks are controversial and cut across various departments, so would need executive approval.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60170761
Why does the UK want to change the protocol?
Despite signing up to the agreement in 2019, the UK government now says the protocol represented a huge compromise by the UK and has accused the EU of applying it too rigidly.
The UK is calling for changes, which include:
Getting rid of checks and paperwork between Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Ensuring that goods that remain in Northern Ireland only need to meet British standards without also needing to comply with EU law
Removing the role the European Commission and the European Court of Justice have in overseeing how the protocol works
What has the EU proposed?
The EU has set out proposals, but says a renegotiation of the text of the Protocol is out of the question:
An 80% reduction in checks on food products arriving in Northern Ireland, as well as halving the amount of paperwork involved.
Reduce the customs information firms need to provide
Pass legislation to allow the trade in medicines between GB and Northern Ireland to continue
Relax rules so chilled meats, such as sausages, could still be sent across the Irish Sea.
In return, the EU wants extra safeguards to prevent products from Great Britain crossing into the Republic of Ireland.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53724381
Vindictive?