If only it was that easy Martin... glad to see you got off to a good start at 4NL.
Trust me to have a session which was the complete opposite just as the challenge starts! I aint got the full details of results with me because I'm at work (I didn't post them last night cos I just wanted to go to bed) but I know I made a loss of £20 + some pennies. I'll post up the results when I get home tonight.
I'd say it was definitely the most frustrating session I've ever had at 4NL, I played 5 tables for nearly 3 hours and just either couldn't hit a barn door, or the few occasions I did, I got zero action. Was having a mooch through the HH last night to spot any mistakes and I saw the biggest pot I won all session was £1.20 lol. Also there were only 3 hands I lost all night over £1 and them 3 came to a total of £8. To be fair, I think 2 of them £5's worth) were avoidable, but one was nut straight v BD flush with 45s.
The other £12 was just a combination of 3 hours worth of either raising pre, c-bets failing and c/f at the first opportunity OR raising pre and having to c/f the flop. All them 16ps and 20ps add up over 3 hours!
I was thinking about maybe filming bits of my sessions but I dunno if anyone wants to listen to me drone on. Might force me to think more about what I'm doing though as I'll be forced to say something on the video.
Develop interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.Henry Miller
Certainly record the session! :D:D love owt like that.
If you're losing loads of small pots (£15 quids worth) then there's a good chance someone will spot something that they wouldn't be able to by posting isolated hands in't clinic.
"Im winning about 2.5p per hour mate. thats 0.5BB over 6 tables."
"I don't understand this constant push from people (not just you) to take a shot etc. I play for fun, and have as much fun playing 4NL as I would playing 50NL, if not more."
why do you quite often post how frustated you are e.t.c then?
If only it was that easy Martin... glad to see you got off to a good start at 4NL. Trust me to have a session which was the complete opposite just as the challenge starts! I aint got the full details of results with me because I'm at work (I didn't post them last night cos I just wanted to go to bed) but I know I made a loss of £20 + some pennies. I'll post up the results when I get home tonight. I'd say it was definitely the most frustrating session I've ever had at 4NL, I played 5 tables for nearly 3 hours and just either couldn't hit a barn door, or the few occasions I did, I got zero action. Was having a mooch through the HH last night to spot any mistakes and I saw the biggest pot I won all session was £1.20 lol. Also there were only 3 hands I lost all night over £1 and them 3 came to a total of £8. To be fair, I think 2 of them £5's worth) were avoidable, but one was nut straight v BD flush with 45s. The other £12 was just a combination of 3 hours worth of either raising pre, c-bets failing and c/f at the first opportunity OR raising pre and having to c/f the flop. All them 16ps and 20ps add up over 3 hours! I was thinking about maybe filming bits of my sessions but I dunno if anyone wants to listen to me drone on. Might force me to think more about what I'm doing though as I'll be forced to say something on the video. Develop interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself. Henry Miller Posted by Lambert180
You mean this never happens to you then?
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
lolufold7
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£3.64
x
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£3.88
Your hole cards
3
3
bobcam
Fold
BYDANDY50
Fold
gracie24
Raise
£0.16
£0.22
£3.76
splashies
Call
£0.16
£0.38
£9.66
lolufold7
Fold
x
Call
£0.12
£0.50
£3.76
Flop
9
3
J
x
All-in
£3.76
£4.26
£0.00
gracie24
Fold
splashies
Call
£3.76
£8.02
£5.90
x
Show
9
A
splashies
Show
3
3
Turn
K
River
2
splashies
Win
Three 3s
£7.41
£13.31
I'd be up for watching some vids of you if you recorded too. I find watchin other ppl play more enjoyable than playing myself.
In Response to Re: Lambert180 ----- 4NL to 20NL ----- Target = 50BIs for 20NL within 12 months : You mean this never happens to you then? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance lolufold7 Small blind £0.02 £0.02 £3.64 x Big blind £0.04 £0.06 £3.88 Your hole cards 3 3 bobcam Fold BYDANDY50 Fold gracie24 Raise £0.16 £0.22 £3.76 splashies Call £0.16 £0.38 £9.66 lolufold7 Fold x Call £0.12 £0.50 £3.76 Flop 9 3 J x All-in £3.76 £4.26 £0.00 gracie24 Fold splashies Call £3.76 £8.02 £5.90 x Show 9 A splashies Show 3 3 Turn K River 2 splashies Win Three 3s £7.41 £13.31 I'd be up for watching some vids of you if you recorded too. I find watchin other ppl play more enjoyable than playing myself. Posted by splashies
Lol sadly not... not yet anyway, I know it will do though. Must be nice
you state you enjoy nl4 maybe you do " I don't understand this constant push from people (not just you) to take a shot etc. I play for fun, and have as much fun playing 4NL as I would playing 50NL, if not more." why do you quite often post how frustated you are e.t.c then? Posted by u_sud_fold
I don't really post about being frustrated that often. Obviously I posted that last night was a frustrating session because it was and tbh I've had a few frustrating ones since I started but that's poker innit.
It's gonna be pretty frustrating going 3 hours without hitting a flop whether I play 1000NL, 4NL, MTTs, DYMs or whatever, that's poker. I enjoy the game of course, but that's like saying 'what you mean you don't enjoy being 1 outered?'
There will always be frustrating times whatever game you play but yes I enjoy the game. Would I have been less frustrated if my session last night was identical but played at 20NL instead?
Certainly record the session! :D:D love owt like that. If you're losing loads of small pots (£15 quids worth) then there's a good chance someone will spot something that they wouldn't be able to by posting isolated hands in't clinic. " Im winning about 2.5p per hour mate. thats 0.5BB over 6 tables." Donald McCampbell Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Well I had a nice bank holiday weekend even if the weather wasn't the greatest. Took the kids to one of those indoor softplay places, with loads of slides, ball pools, trampolines etc. They had a whale of a time, and as some of it need adult supervision, so did I! Forgot how fun it was to climb about on climbing frames and go down slides.
Right last night's sessions results, you know all the info really, so just posting stats
Played a decent session this afternoon and I'm sorry to say Paul, it was full of heat again. Nearly all of it occured on 1 table, as shown below in a stack size brag.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
jiminy5314
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£2.61
splashies
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£30.59
Your hole cards
K
K
Hunterlad
Fold
clubhammer
Fold
TheAbbott
Call
£0.04
£0.10
£2.47
jiminy5314
Fold
splashies
Raise
£0.12
£0.22
£30.47
TheAbbott
Raise
£0.24
£0.46
£2.23
splashies
All-in
£30.47
£30.93
£0.00
TheAbbott
All-in
£2.23
£33.16
£0.00
splashies
Unmatched bet
£28.12
£5.04
£28.12
splashies
Show
K
K
TheAbbott
Show
A
10
Flop
Q
6
3
Turn
J
River
J
splashies
Win
Two Pairs, Kings and Jacks
£4.66
£32.78
Total Hands: 2,173 Total Profit: £36.51 Win Rate: 42.00bb/100
Not sure if i'll have a session tomorrow but will try and sneak one in.
Really hope you get some of my heat in your next session. No doubt there's a brutal one around the corner for me. Gl mate.
Thought for the day.....
"Don't miss the donut by looking through the hole" ~ Author Unknown
Bit of an up and down session. Started really well, then took a few beats with big PPs v Ace rags to put myself in the red, took a little break. First session I was £7.18 down
Then we (me and Emma) linked up the laptop to our 38" TV so she could watch me properly and be able to see without being over my shoulder. Played another hour like that, Emma being there probably helped me avoid any spewing spots and I managed to finish the 5 tables with a small profit on each. Emma helped with some moral boosting and making me question a few decisions I made like pausing for a while before deciding whether to check or raise from the BB when there's abot 3 limpers in front and I have AQ. Second session I was £5.73 up for a total loss today of £1.45
Why can't I get action like you do eh Splashies. Part of me regrets leading but to be honest, I think if nothing will call the flop, there's practically no turn card that's gonna make them happy calling the turn.
In Response to Re: Lambert180 ----- 4NL to 20NL ----- Target = 50BIs for 20NL within 12 months : Raise!!! Alot!!!!!!!!!!! "Trust, encouragement reward, loyalty, satisfaction" - David Brent Posted by DOHHHHHHH
I think I was just swayed by something TinTin had said to me about playing hands from the blinds.
Here's something I was thinking about on the way to work so I welcome yours and others thoughts on it... This may be the ramblings of a madman because I'm still half asleep but if I raise AK pre and flop comes 56Kr then I will c-bet looking to get value from worse Kx hands, people who fancy calling with 2nd or 3rd pair, or gutshots or underpairs to the K.... BUT if I raised with AQ pre and the flop came exactly the same 56Kr, then I would c-bet.
As I said, maybe I'm still asleep but can c-betting this be justified, when on the other occasions (that I've hit) I expect to get called a fair amount of the time. Obviously I'm not really trying to balance my range because I think there's little value in it at this level.
I also c-bet with like 88-QQ partly for value and partly to protect my hand but that's kinda beside the point (I think).
So can someone either please justify why I'm fine to c-bet both with AK and AQ on this flop OR explain to me why it's wrong?
when you have players limp/calling wide as the grand canyon - c bet is auto - raise, 3 bet wider for value and punish them when they miss or hit flops that you dominate
depends on table but you can even raise from the blinds with A10 for value
paul they cant see your cards can they lol its not mad its normal u should always c-bet pretty much the same amount if ya hit tptk or an airball on like u say 1 high card an 2 low cards im c-betting this with my tptk and air ball but say u have 99 and raise and flop is j q k im never c betting this as this smacks a range of a call hope this makes sense Posted by IDONKCALLU
Well yeah I'm C/F 99 on a KQJ flop pretty sharpish, but what I mean is, at this level where I'm betting my AK because I expect to get calls alot on this kinda flop, is it worth c-betting, as I'm likely to get called alot and will give up on any blank turn, and even when a Q hits the turn, I'll be pot controlling due to being behind so many raggy Kx hands.
Yeah I agree with most of what you're saying. Of course I'd bet 3 streets for value if I hit a K-high flop with AK, I'm not worrying about being behind there. There's no question of that, the question is the validity of c-betting particular flops. I might be wrong and I know you're a good player Rancid but I would certainly not advocate c-betting 100% or even close to it.
I've seen countless people call 5x raises with hands like K5 especially if suited by the way :P But I'm not complaining about that, I'm happy for people to call 5x raises with K5 all day long.
And yeah I don't think the majority of players at 4NL pay attention to bet sizing, so I'm more than happy to make one raise size pre with AA and a different size with 22 for example.
Think u need to play low-mid prs passive at NL4, very hard to play if you raise pre versus limp callers going to be versus overcards a lot, which is never great
say you have 8's and you have 3 limps before you, how much you raising and why - we c/f lots of overcard flops/boards - we only getting value from 6/7 high flops
end up checking weak or strong hands on flops, so polarised
intresting that you mention not getting paid with big hands in certain sessions
have a look at your pre sizing, stick to 4x imo - across your whole range, reduces your c bet size abit and allows a bit more room for movement - take it your raising pre 3x to 6x :S stick to 4x + 1bb per limper
Think u need to play low-mid prs passive at NL4, very hard to play if you raise pre versus limp callers going to be versus overcards a lot, which is never great say you have 8's and you have 3 limps before you, how much you raising and why - we c/f lots of overcard flops/boards - we only getting value from 6/7 high flops end up checking weak or strong hands on flops, so polarised intresting that you mention not getting paid with big hands in certain sessions have a look at your pre sizing, stick to 4x imo - across your whole range, reduces your c bet size abit and allows a bit more room for movement - take it your raising pre 3x to 6x :S stick to 4x + 1bb per limper don't be ashamed to limp behind at nl4 never open limp though ) Posted by rancid
Yeah definitely agree, I have no problem playing small PPs passive. I'll just limp along or flat call raises with 22-99 sometimes TT too.
I generally raise 5x, with the exception of some hands like small PPs. I leave it at 5x with 1 limper, and then add on 1BB per limper after that. I'm not too worried to be fair, I know I've made a few bad calls near the start of this venture, and to be honest, some of them I think were necessary at the time. I've quickly learned there's alot of people who make me look like a big LAG (more than there used to be I'm sure), so I lost some hands earlier which I put down as coolers but looking back now I know they're super super nits. But yeah, it's just variance innit, I certainly aint had any beauties like that one from Splashies where someone just open shoves £3.50 into his flopped set, but I'm sure I will do.
Yeah I agree with most of what you're saying. Of course I'd bet 3 streets for value if I hit a K-high flop with AK, I'm not worrying about being behind there. There's no question of that, the question is the validity of c-betting particular flops. I might be wrong and I know you're a good player Rancid but I would certainly not advocate c-betting 100% or even close to it. I've seen countless people call 5x raises with hands like K5 especially if suited by the way :P But I'm not complaining about that, I'm happy for people to call 5x raises with K5 all day long. And yeah I don't think the majority of players at 4NL pay attention to bet sizing, so I'm more than happy to make one raise size pre with AA and a different size with 22 for example. Posted by Lambert180
HAHA bad read )
If your raising a limped pot w/88 and flop comes KQJ – obviously you c/f – then don’t raise pre
If you open raise and get two callers and flop come J42r – then c bet – w/e your hand
A lot of situations will arise in NL4 where you have limps before you, raising sometimes only achieves a bloated flop pot, therefore any flop bet will be have to be bigger
I did say 100%, ok maybe 96% )
How we chose to come into the pot pre dictates how we play flop, if you finding yourself raising pre only to face horrible flops then maybe look at what your doing pre
You don’t have to raise pre just because there are limpers, imo it’s a bit spewy . Most of you marginal’s/ low-mid prs can be played more profitably by limping behind.
It’s only when you open raise that I would say c bet 96%:S
Why c bet, because it’s profitable to do so versus the range that calls your standard 4x open -
Think you’re a good enough post flop player to outplay all of NL4
Comments
Trust me to have a session which was the complete opposite just as the challenge starts! I aint got the full details of results with me because I'm at work (I didn't post them last night cos I just wanted to go to bed) but I know I made a loss of £20 + some pennies. I'll post up the results when I get home tonight.
I'd say it was definitely the most frustrating session I've ever had at 4NL, I played 5 tables for nearly 3 hours and just either couldn't hit a barn door, or the few occasions I did, I got zero action. Was having a mooch through the HH last night to spot any mistakes and I saw the biggest pot I won all session was £1.20 lol. Also there were only 3 hands I lost all night over £1 and them 3 came to a total of £8. To be fair, I think 2 of them £5's worth) were avoidable, but one was nut straight v BD flush with 45s.
The other £12 was just a combination of 3 hours worth of either raising pre, c-bets failing and c/f at the first opportunity OR raising pre and having to c/f the flop. All them 16ps and 20ps add up over 3 hours!
I was thinking about maybe filming bits of my sessions but I dunno if anyone wants to listen to me drone on. Might force me to think more about what I'm doing though as I'll be forced to say something on the video.
It's gonna be pretty frustrating going 3 hours without hitting a flop whether I play 1000NL, 4NL, MTTs, DYMs or whatever, that's poker. I enjoy the game of course, but that's like saying 'what you mean you don't enjoy being 1 outered?'
There will always be frustrating times whatever game you play but yes I enjoy the game. Would I have been less frustrated if my session last night was identical but played at 20NL instead?
Right last night's sessions results, you know all the info really, so just posting stats
Hands Played: 9240
Bankroll: £158.76
Profit/Loss: -£16.28
Poker Points: 643 (£6.43)
PS. I take it Don's being an idiot with his maths and that he's not playing 30NL.
Total Profit: £36.51
Win Rate: 42.00bb/100
Not sure if i'll have a session tomorrow but will try and sneak one in.
Really hope you get some of my heat in your next session. No doubt there's a brutal one around the corner for me. Gl mate.
Thought for the day.....
"Don't miss the donut by looking through the hole" ~ Author Unknown
Then we (me and Emma) linked up the laptop to our 38" TV so she could watch me properly and be able to see without being over my shoulder. Played another hour like that, Emma being there probably helped me avoid any spewing spots and I managed to finish the 5 tables with a small profit on each. Emma helped with some moral boosting and making me question a few decisions I made like pausing for a while before deciding whether to check or raise from the BB when there's abot 3 limpers in front and I have AQ. Second session I was £5.73 up for a total loss today of £1.45
Hands Played: 10,340
Bankroll: £157.31
Profit/Loss: -£17.73
Poker Points: 678 (£6.78)
Don't worry Splashies, plenty of time between now and Xmas, I'll catch you up!!
Here's something I was thinking about on the way to work so I welcome yours and others thoughts on it... This may be the ramblings of a madman because I'm still half asleep but if I raise AK pre and flop comes 56Kr then I will c-bet looking to get value from worse Kx hands, people who fancy calling with 2nd or 3rd pair, or gutshots or underpairs to the K.... BUT if I raised with AQ pre and the flop came exactly the same 56Kr, then I would c-bet.
As I said, maybe I'm still asleep but can c-betting this be justified, when on the other occasions (that I've hit) I expect to get called a fair amount of the time. Obviously I'm not really trying to balance my range because I think there's little value in it at this level.
I also c-bet with like 88-QQ partly for value and partly to protect my hand but that's kinda beside the point (I think).
So can someone either please justify why I'm fine to c-bet both with AK and AQ on this flop OR explain to me why it's wrong?
raise, 3 bet wider for value and punish them when they miss or hit flops that you dominate
depends on table but you can even raise from the blinds with A10 for value
just iso at nl4 = print money
I've seen countless people call 5x raises with hands like K5 especially if suited by the way :P But I'm not complaining about that, I'm happy for people to call 5x raises with K5 all day long.
And yeah I don't think the majority of players at 4NL pay attention to bet sizing, so I'm more than happy to make one raise size pre with AA and a different size with 22 for example.
going to be versus overcards a lot, which is never great
say you have 8's and you have 3 limps before you, how much you raising and why - we c/f lots of overcard flops/boards -
we only getting value from 6/7 high flops
end up checking weak or strong hands on flops, so polarised
intresting that you mention not getting paid with big hands in certain sessions
have a look at your pre sizing, stick to 4x imo - across your whole range, reduces your c bet size abit and allows a bit more room for movement - take it your raising pre 3x to 6x :S stick to 4x + 1bb per limper
don't be ashamed to limp behind at nl4
never open limp though )
I generally raise 5x, with the exception of some hands like small PPs. I leave it at 5x with 1 limper, and then add on 1BB per limper after that. I'm not too worried to be fair, I know I've made a few bad calls near the start of this venture, and to be honest, some of them I think were necessary at the time. I've quickly learned there's alot of people who make me look like a big LAG (more than there used to be I'm sure), so I lost some hands earlier which I put down as coolers but looking back now I know they're super super nits. But yeah, it's just variance innit, I certainly aint had any beauties like that one from Splashies where someone just open shoves £3.50 into his flopped set, but I'm sure I will do.
HAHA bad read )
If your raising a limped pot w/88 and flop comes KQJ – obviously you c/f – then don’t raise pre
If you open raise and get two callers and flop come J42r – then c bet – w/e your hand
A lot of situations will arise in NL4 where you have limps before you, raising sometimes only achieves a bloated flop pot, therefore any flop bet will be have to be bigger
I did say 100%, ok maybe 96% )
How we chose to come into the pot pre dictates how we play flop, if you finding yourself raising pre only to face horrible flops then maybe look at what your doing pre
You don’t have to raise pre just because there are limpers, imo it’s a bit spewy . Most of you marginal’s/ low-mid prs can be played more profitably by limping behind.
It’s only when you open raise that I would say c bet 96% :S
Why c bet, because it’s profitable to do so versus the range that calls your standard 4x open -
Think you’re a good enough post flop player to outplay all of NL4
Have fun with it