Decided to play a few more MTTs tonight, been feeling a bit rubbish about MTTs recently, and while I do think there's plenty of room for improvement in my MTT game, I still think I'm decent and have just been running awful in them recently.
I played the Mini, KOTH, the £11 BH (and a £3 all in sat for the £55 BH).
Two of them I busted out by 3bet shipping into AA and I can't remember my other exit but meh, things didn't go well, no heads, no cash. So that was -£27
Played some HU SnGs after that because I wasn't feeling it to sit down for a cash grind and there were no MTTs I wanted to play. Got butchered again, just repeatedly getting it in with 70/30s like AK v A4 and losing. So lost aonther £31.25 playing £5.25s.
I love playing HU but was getting bored of playing so shallow and just losing races, wanted to play a bit deeper and I always enjoy playing HU in 6max when I'm getting tables going so I sat down @ 30NL HU and waited...
Took quite a while but eventually got a customer and after probably 30 mins of play, I eventually stacked them. First guy was pretty tough going, not really a tough opponent, but just SO tight, that I was winning lots of small pots but was a real struggle to get them to put money in the pot. He left after I stacked him, and the one and only IDCU decided to join me
That didn't last too long, we passed chips around for a bit, then he 4bet/called it off with K7s and my QQ held. Left the table with £105 so had £71.55 profit. So somehow managed to turn it round with a bit of luck and finish a tenner up for the day.
The way Donk runs he did have me worried with that 7 on the flop...
What Husngs you been playing Paul? i have been getting destroyed in turbos and speeds since i came back from my month out to the point my confidence has been knocked alot and i have questioned whether i can even beat the game anymore. It has made me work hard on my cash game which is a positive, but is still a a major annoyance, so frustrating feeling that i can't beat the game, it isn't an off the cuff response to losing over like 50 games either i think i have played over 550-600 hu games this month and whatever i do i can't seem to get it right.
What Husngs you been playing Paul? i have been getting destroyed in turbos and speeds since i came back from my month out to the point my confidence has been knocked alot and i have questioned whether i can even beat the game anymore. It has made me work hard on my cash game which is a positive, but is still a a major annoyance, so frustrating feeling that i can't beat the game, it isn't an off the cuff response to losing over like 50 games either i think i have played over 550-600 hu games this month and whatever i do i can't seem to get it right. Posted by benc
id try to make the transition to HU cash.. i used play soley $50/1 - $1/2 HU on FT before they went down, IMO its the best form of any poker. the game s hardly run on here and very few regs will play.. the only thing with playin lower limits is the rake will destory u ..
im not sure on the srtuctures of the turbo games u play but would imagine there massively high variance.?
Mostly stopped the Hypers cos just cba with the swings, I did playe 2 hypers last night, but the other like 20+ games I played where all either Turbo or Speed. There is a bit more play in these but like Lnarinoo said, they are still massively high variance.
They can be pretty brutal Benc even over large samples, much the same as MTTs, you can go on long runs of doing terrible and sometimes when you're going through that it's hard to differentiate between whether you're playing bad or just running badly. For a while I've been thinking I must be playing like a donkey in MTTs cos I@m getting no-where but I just don't know know if it's bad play or variance or (most likely) a bit of both
I feel I have a much bigger edge playing 100xBB deep with someone HU than in a HU SnG where effective stacks are usually like 10-20xBB deep at the sharp end, it's just a question of whether my bigger edge is counter-acted by the high rake at low levels.
Well I thought tonight was shaping up to be a bit of a turning point for me in terms of how I've been running in MTTs recently, but sadly that was not to be the case.
'Schedule'...
£1.65 Sat into the KOTH (yeah I know, what a nit lol), jam QJs w/ 10xBB into QQ.
£5.50 Mini, doing pretty well in that, then I walk into a short stacks flopped set which took a bit of a chunk off me, then I jam A9s into AJ. Took one head there for £1.88
£2.20 Speed Rebuy - Doing fantastic in that, started with 102 runners and I'm massive chip leader with 25 left (13 paid). Lose 3 races in a row, never being worse than a flip (the only one I remember specifically was KQ v KT), then I ship the BTN and walk into AA. From CL to finishing 21st in <5 mins. That was the biggest sigh of the night.
£5.50 Velo - Can't remember how I bust that but it was fairly early... forgot how quick that is.
£3 all-in sat. Managed to get past the first hand which aint happened for a while, that put me on FT but came 5th with top 2 paying.
£5.75 BH - Again, doing really well, took my first head quite early, but couldn't win a race. Shipped over a shorty limper with AJ, snapped by K3 who got there. Same spot later, A7 v QJ, lose that, and eventually jam the BTN with A3 and walk into AA, fml.
So that's a total loss of £24.24
On the brightside it's the first time in a while I've had any return from an MTT
For about an hour I was playing 30NL HU cash alongside my MTTs and managed to eek out a £8.85 profit and I do mean eek out, cos I know my opponent was pretty decent and players higher. So that was some of my MTT BIs back at least
Just before going to bed last night, had a little mid month assessment because I had a feeling what I was going to see and just wanted to confirm it. Basically I've donked off ALOT this month in MTTs
I started the month on £1715.49.... I'm now on £1636.14 which is a loss so far of £79.35 which is pretty small really, certainly nothing to get worried about. But I have a spreadsheet for all my cash games so I know to the penny how that's going, and so far this month on cash I am +£230.33 which means I've lost £309.68 through MTTs (and the odd STT).
Granted during this time, I've spent abuot £45 for Birmingham and I do have a £110 seat to show for that so I guess I could say the loss is only £199 but it's still pretty disappointing.
I do that every month paul use quite a bit of my cash profit for mtts looking to a get that bink does not happen lol.But yeah like you said just get back grinding more cash and you can easily make up for they mtt losses.
I'll probably give it a go if it's another like 4day weekend thing. I'm at my mums on the Saturday and her laptop lags with any more than 1 table running (so might play some HU cash Saturday to get the max hands for 1 tabling). If it's just Saturday and Sunday, I have no chance only being able to play 1 of the days, but if it's the same as last time like Friday - Monday then I can play 3 of the 4 days, and don't think there will be too many people going crazy. Probably got no chance of winning it with people like DTM about, but should be able to make a top 10 or something.
Last time I played was Sunday night and it wasn't pretty so I took a day off from everything (including updating). Now that I look back at it, the damage is alot less than I thought.
I lost the £1.65 from the KOTH (I satted in) mentioned above and played 1 x £3 all in sat and lost that.
Then I jumped on the cash tables Things started a little badly, not really through much fault of my own (I don't think), then they really picked up and I started getting a few decent stacks going... some very interesting 4b pots against LiamBoi and seeing him show up with some funky stuff for a 4b pot. Then I went through a patch of just getting completed owned in every way possible by WudIBluff (sigh, he has a habit of doing that to me).
I thought I was about 3 BIs down at this point but after working out my results I was actually only 1 BI down. I also remembered the 2 pots I'm about to post being bigger than they actually were.
As you may have picked up, I think I'd been gradually accumulating tilt throughout the last week or two, from just constantly running bad in every single MTT I enter. Then the hand below happened and after the slight build up of tilt, the only thing I could do was say ARGHHHH!!
I'm thinking on the flop I'm gonna have to dodge a fair amount of outs to hold here... sadly I was the one drawing to 3 outs for a split lol.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
luckyjimbo
Small blind
£0.15
£0.15
£13.15
Donttelmum
Big blind
£0.30
£0.45
£27.45
Your hole cards
J
9
vinnybhoy
Raise
£0.90
£1.35
£47.85
X
Call
£0.90
£2.25
£50.40
skyfly
Fold
Lambert180
Call
£0.90
£3.15
£48.01
luckyjimbo
Call
£0.75
£3.90
£12.40
Donttelmum
Fold
Flop
Q
K
10
luckyjimbo
Check
vinnybhoy
Check
X
Bet
£1.95
£5.85
£48.45
Lambert180
Raise
£4.70
£10.55
£43.31
luckyjimbo
Fold
vinnybhoy
Fold
X
Raise
£9.40
£19.95
£39.05
Lambert180
All-in
£43.31
£63.26
£0.00
X
Call
£36.66
£99.92
£2.39
X
Show
A
J
Lambert180
Show
J
9
Turn
K
River
9
X
Win
Straight to the Ace
£98.12
£100.51
That was pretty sigh flopped 2nd nuts into flopped nuts. Villian was not a nut peddler at all, and am confident this isn't always gonna be AJ.
Anyway, as this hand was happening, I had iso'd a limper on another table with JJ (yes I know it should be 4x, was rushed into getting a raise in before timing out), and literally just as I see the guy turn over AJ on that other table and I'm super tilted, that very second I get 3bet on this other table with JJ, and I just snap 4bet tilt jam for 200xBB with JJ lol just awful... snapped off by KK obv
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
liamboi11
Small blind
£0.15
£0.15
£28.89
9876543535
Big blind
£0.30
£0.45
£72.53
Your hole cards
J
J
mikeb330
Call
£0.30
£0.75
£32.13
Donttelmum
Fold
Lambert180
Raise
£0.90
£1.65
£52.91
rancid
Fold
liamboi11
Call
£0.75
£2.40
£28.14
9876543535
Raise
£2.40
£4.80
£70.13
mikeb330
Fold
Lambert180
All-in
£52.91
£57.71
£0.00
liamboi11
Fold
9876543535
All-in
£70.13
£127.84
£0.00
9876543535
Unmatched bet
£19.02
£108.82
£19.02
9876543535
Show
K
K
Lambert180
Show
J
J
Flop
2
9
Q
Turn
4
River
3
9876543535
Win
Pair of Kings
£107.02
£126.04
Hand 1 = Brutal
Hand 2 = Embarrassing
Snap stood from every table after that cos knew how awful that jam was. I thought that the result would be absolutely awful after these 2 hands but having looked at it now was only -£144.90, which is just shy of 5 BIs. I've had sessions like that before, and will have them many times again. Bit sigh that I didn't need to donk off £60 at the end although I probably do lose a few more quid if I play it properly due to the run out.
Am still more than rolled for 30NL imo so will get back on the horse soon. That night kinda got it out of my system and I feel de-tilted now.
Tbh Jac, I hadn't even noticed that when looking back at it lol, there's no reasoning behind it, it's a mistake, I definitely should have gone bigger with my flop raise on such a wet board.
Hand 2 - Yeah just pure spew, no reasoning behind that other than pure tilt, and as soon as I did it, I was just hoping for a fold, which I'll get probably 95% of the time when we're 200xBB and all he has done is a standard 3bet... just got unlucky this time and he had one of the probably 2 hands he'd call with
2nd hand u can see that was tilt when called ya never aheadn ya know this didnt think u tilt paul :P Posted by IDONKCALLU
Really? lol. (we're more alike than you realise!)
I'm a massive tilt monster. Before this time round where I've got my BR way higher than it's ever been, I used to always build it up, tilt it off, build it up, tilt it off.
I am still up for the month on cash despite that awful play, just spending £300 on MTTs so far this month and the only thing to show for it is a £110 Birmingham seat aint great.
Do you track your MTT results at all? Obviously there is a much greater return period, so a cumulative monthly negative is not really the full story. How are you playing in the MTTs (and do you include Sats in your stats?), **** you took down a Mini not so long ago so you must have most of the game already.
I had been doubting my MTT game a bit recently but that's probably fairly normal after a while without any results, like don't expect to be winning an MTT all the time, but I've played quite alot over the past few weeks without a single cash.
Looking at it with a clear head, I know I have the game to beat MTTs on Sky it's just been a rough patch. One thing about MTTs is they are pretty brutal, and you need to play ALOT for things to even out... I can play 6/7 tables of cash no problem, and the only reason I don't play more is because I can't fit them on my laptop, but when it comes to MTT I just don't seem to be able to play that many, 3 tables is probably about as many where I feel I'm still playing really well, maybe I need to just put more practice in multi-tabling MTTs.
I don't track them actually, but maybe I should. I kept a rough idea going in my diary last month and was about +£200 for the month MTT-wise I think, which obv mostly came from the Mini win. I did BI direct to that TSP qualifier for £60 that month so that took a chunk out of the profit. Obviously it's tracked via Sharkscope but it's so inaccurate... profit missing from heads in BHs, but then losses not counted for in rebuys, and shows more losses cos I've probably had £150-£200 worth of free entries from Sky that show as losses but obv didn't cost me anything. Think I might put together a spreadsheet
I do include sats when I do my updates and count them as the price I get in for.
Sure, you include them in your bankroll/financial results, but what I meant was that a Sat will have an even greater return period (like a 2.60 sat is going to show up similar in variance to the full 55 buyin (or slightly under if you're beating the sats or semis)), so it can be useful to separate them out to see how things are going. But as you say, it's a bit obvious things aren't great if you haven't made a single cash in a straight MTT for a while. In that case, think about the exits or key spots. Do you employ the same mentality from cash where you can instantly reload, or do you place some value on the tournament life?
I don't have the answers by the way, just trying to offer you some questions! One thing that will affect your MTT return though is approaching the next one thinking you'll lose! Good luck.
Only a suggestion, but would it be an idea to withdraw £500, take a shart break and then come bac. You will still have a BR big enough for NL30 and it would mean u can enjoy and spend that £500 that you have worked hard for.
It might make it seem more real than just numbers on a screen?
@Mike - Yeah I know what you mean, I'll have to find some way to work satellites into my spreadsheet. Might do it similar to SS in that winning a £10 sat into a £50 games shows a +£40 profit, then just enter the £50 MTT on a seperate line, not sure yet, but I sure do love my spreadsheets
To be honest, I have very little regard for my tournament life, arguably I have too little regard for it, but I'm certainly not afraid to take certain spots if it can give me a chance to go deep for fear of busting out and missing out on a min cash. Min cashes, don't mean anything imo.
@SighCall - A good suggestion but just probably doesn't fit well for me. Personally if withdrew £500 and dropped back to a £1k roll, I wouldn't be loving life playing 30NL, I'd probably be comfortable at first but 1 big losing session could end all that, and I don't wanna have to move down when I can beat 30NL and don't really need to. I'm going to have this roll up to £2.5k and be playing 50NL before the year is out (probably before the summer is finished imo) and withdrawing £500 would just slow that progress down.
Also, my interests are very cheap in life. If someone gave me £500, I wouldn't know what to spend it on anyway. All of my hobbies are very cheap ones... I can get weeks out of a book for £5, weeks (at least) out of an Xbox gave for £15-£20 etc. I don't really go out drinking ever. The only thing I need/want is a new decent phone but I'm a life nit and it would be like a dagger in my heart to spend £300+ on the phone.
Comments
I played the Mini, KOTH, the £11 BH (and a £3 all in sat for the £55 BH).
Two of them I busted out by 3bet shipping into AA and I can't remember my other exit but meh, things didn't go well, no heads, no cash. So that was -£27
Played some HU SnGs after that because I wasn't feeling it to sit down for a cash grind and there were no MTTs I wanted to play. Got butchered again, just repeatedly getting it in with 70/30s like AK v A4 and losing. So lost aonther £31.25 playing £5.25s.
I love playing HU but was getting bored of playing so shallow and just losing races, wanted to play a bit deeper and I always enjoy playing HU in 6max when I'm getting tables going so I sat down @ 30NL HU and waited...
Took quite a while but eventually got a customer and after probably 30 mins of play, I eventually stacked them. First guy was pretty tough going, not really a tough opponent, but just SO tight, that I was winning lots of small pots but was a real struggle to get them to put money in the pot. He left after I stacked him, and the one and only IDCU decided to join me
That didn't last too long, we passed chips around for a bit, then he 4bet/called it off with K7s and my QQ held. Left the table with £105 so had £71.55 profit. So somehow managed to turn it round with a bit of luck and finish a tenner up for the day.
The way Donk runs he did have me worried with that 7 on the flop...
Poker Points: 1274 (£12.74)
They can be pretty brutal Benc even over large samples, much the same as MTTs, you can go on long runs of doing terrible and sometimes when you're going through that it's hard to differentiate between whether you're playing bad or just running badly. For a while I've been thinking I must be playing like a donkey in MTTs cos I@m getting no-where but I just don't know know if it's bad play or variance or (most likely) a bit of both
I feel I have a much bigger edge playing 100xBB deep with someone HU than in a HU SnG where effective stacks are usually like 10-20xBB deep at the sharp end, it's just a question of whether my bigger edge is counter-acted by the high rake at low levels.
'Schedule'...
£1.65 Sat into the KOTH (yeah I know, what a nit lol), jam QJs w/ 10xBB into QQ.
£5.50 Mini, doing pretty well in that, then I walk into a short stacks flopped set which took a bit of a chunk off me, then I jam A9s into AJ. Took one head there for £1.88
£2.20 Speed Rebuy - Doing fantastic in that, started with 102 runners and I'm massive chip leader with 25 left (13 paid). Lose 3 races in a row, never being worse than a flip (the only one I remember specifically was KQ v KT), then I ship the BTN and walk into AA. From CL to finishing 21st in <5 mins. That was the biggest sigh of the night.
£5.50 Velo - Can't remember how I bust that but it was fairly early... forgot how quick that is.
£3 all-in sat. Managed to get past the first hand which aint happened for a while, that put me on FT but came 5th with top 2 paying.
£5.75 BH - Again, doing really well, took my first head quite early, but couldn't win a race. Shipped over a shorty limper with AJ, snapped by K3 who got there. Same spot later, A7 v QJ, lose that, and eventually jam the BTN with A3 and walk into AA, fml.
So that's a total loss of £24.24
On the brightside it's the first time in a while I've had any return from an MTT
For about an hour I was playing 30NL HU cash alongside my MTTs and managed to eek out a £8.85 profit and I do mean eek out, cos I know my opponent was pretty decent and players higher. So that was some of my MTT BIs back at least
Bankroll: £1,636.14
Poker Points: 1357 (£13.57)
I started the month on £1715.49.... I'm now on £1636.14 which is a loss so far of £79.35 which is pretty small really, certainly nothing to get worried about. But I have a spreadsheet for all my cash games so I know to the penny how that's going, and so far this month on cash I am +£230.33 which means I've lost £309.68 through MTTs (and the odd STT).
Granted during this time, I've spent abuot £45 for Birmingham and I do have a £110 seat to show for that so I guess I could say the loss is only £199 but it's still pretty disappointing.
Less MTTs, more cash for the rest of the month!
First hand I play...
Last time I played was Sunday night and it wasn't pretty so I took a day off from everything (including updating). Now that I look back at it, the damage is alot less than I thought.
I lost the £1.65 from the KOTH (I satted in) mentioned above and played 1 x £3 all in sat and lost that.
Then I jumped on the cash tables
I thought I was about 3 BIs down at this point but after working out my results I was actually only 1 BI down. I also remembered the 2 pots I'm about to post being bigger than they actually were.
As you may have picked up, I think I'd been gradually accumulating tilt throughout the last week or two, from just constantly running bad in every single MTT I enter. Then the hand below happened and after the slight build up of tilt, the only thing I could do was say ARGHHHH!!
I'm thinking on the flop I'm gonna have to dodge a fair amount of outs to hold here... sadly I was the one drawing to 3 outs for a split lol.
Anyway, as this hand was happening, I had iso'd a limper on another table with JJ (yes I know it should be 4x, was rushed into getting a raise in before timing out), and literally just as I see the guy turn over AJ on that other table and I'm super tilted, that very second I get 3bet on this other table with JJ, and I just snap 4bet tilt jam for 200xBB with JJ lol just awful... snapped off by KK obv
Hand 2 = Embarrassing
Snap stood from every table after that cos knew how awful that jam was. I thought that the result would be absolutely awful after these 2 hands but having looked at it now was only -£144.90, which is just shy of 5 BIs. I've had sessions like that before, and will have them many times again. Bit sigh that I didn't need to donk off £60 at the end although I probably do lose a few more quid if I play it properly due to the run out.
Am still more than rolled for 30NL imo so will get back on the horse soon. That night kinda got it out of my system and I feel de-tilted now.
Bankroll: £1,486.59
Poker Points: 1694 (£16.94)
Kudos for you posting hand 2 mate because when i see players do this type of thing i always feel the need to type in chat "the blinds go up in 2 mins"
Best of luck
Daz
Hand 2 - Yeah just pure spew, no reasoning behind that other than pure tilt, and as soon as I did it, I was just hoping for a fold, which I'll get probably 95% of the time when we're 200xBB and all he has done is a standard 3bet... just got unlucky this time and he had one of the probably 2 hands he'd call with
Cheers for the replies all.
I'm a massive tilt monster. Before this time round where I've got my BR way higher than it's ever been, I used to always build it up, tilt it off, build it up, tilt it off.
I am still up for the month on cash despite that awful play, just spending £300 on MTTs so far this month and the only thing to show for it is a £110 Birmingham seat aint great.
Looking at it with a clear head, I know I have the game to beat MTTs on Sky it's just been a rough patch. One thing about MTTs is they are pretty brutal, and you need to play ALOT for things to even out... I can play 6/7 tables of cash no problem, and the only reason I don't play more is because I can't fit them on my laptop, but when it comes to MTT I just don't seem to be able to play that many, 3 tables is probably about as many where I feel I'm still playing really well, maybe I need to just put more practice in multi-tabling MTTs.
I don't track them actually, but maybe I should. I kept a rough idea going in my diary last month and was about +£200 for the month MTT-wise I think, which obv mostly came from the Mini win. I did BI direct to that TSP qualifier for £60 that month so that took a chunk out of the profit. Obviously it's tracked via Sharkscope but it's so inaccurate... profit missing from heads in BHs, but then losses not counted for in rebuys, and shows more losses cos I've probably had £150-£200 worth of free entries from Sky that show as losses but obv didn't cost me anything. Think I might put together a spreadsheet
I do include sats when I do my updates and count them as the price I get in for.
To be honest, I have very little regard for my tournament life, arguably I have too little regard for it, but I'm certainly not afraid to take certain spots if it can give me a chance to go deep for fear of busting out and missing out on a min cash. Min cashes, don't mean anything imo.
@SighCall - A good suggestion but just probably doesn't fit well for me. Personally if withdrew £500 and dropped back to a £1k roll, I wouldn't be loving life playing 30NL, I'd probably be comfortable at first but 1 big losing session could end all that, and I don't wanna have to move down when I can beat 30NL and don't really need to. I'm going to have this roll up to £2.5k and be playing 50NL before the year is out (probably before the summer is finished imo) and withdrawing £500 would just slow that progress down.
Also, my interests are very cheap in life. If someone gave me £500, I wouldn't know what to spend it on anyway. All of my hobbies are very cheap ones... I can get weeks out of a book for £5, weeks (at least) out of an Xbox gave for £15-£20 etc. I don't really go out drinking ever. The only thing I need/want is a new decent phone but I'm a life nit and it would be like a dagger in my heart to spend £300+ on the phone.