In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : HI DIGGERMAN I THINK YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD MY POST.IN NO WAY AND AT NO TIME WAS I HAVING A POP AT YOU.I AINT EVEN MOANING MYSELF MERELY SAYING I CAN SEE XFALLENXS POINT OF VIEW.AND MY COMMENT OF THE PEOPLE SLAGGIN OFF THE MOANERS AND THEN SHORTLY MOANING THEMSELVES IS INDEED SEEN IN RECENT POSTS.NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF YOUR COMMENTS AT ALL THOUGH.ALL THE BEST DEBS XX Posted by debdobs_67
Hi Debs Sorry, I think we've got our wires well and truly crossed here! lol I know you weren't having a pop at me and I certainly didn't direct my comments at you! I think we should get off this thread now, its getting far too heated! Best wishes to you and Dav.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : yes they r scrum and 2day I feel like joining the muppet brigade. Posted by xFALLENx
Fish? Muppets? - Call them what you like, but you have to remember that there are a lot of inexperienced players joining sky poker & other poker sites everyday.
Sky Poker is for players of all abilities, I didnt see a sign on the home page saying experieced players only - No Fish or Muppets as you call them.
I love to play against the fish and the muppets - Leave Them Alone and let them learn how to play as you had to when you first started in your quest to be a great poker player.
If you beleive you are a solid player, then I suggest you enter toureys & cash games that reflect your ability and leave the fish alone.
The fish have to be fed otherwise the would not survive.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Fish? Muppets? - Call them what you like, but you have to remember that there are a lot of inexperienced players joining sky poker & other poker sites everyday. Sky Poker is for players of all abilities, I didnt see a sign on the home page saying experieced players only - No Fish or Muppets as you call them. I love to play against the fish and the muppets - Leave Them Alone and let them learn how to play as you had to when you first started in your quest to be a great poker player. If you beleive you are a solid player, then I suggest you enter toureys & cash games that reflect your ability and leave the fish alone. The fish have to be fed otherwise the would not survive. Posted by POKERTREV
VERY GOOD POST POKERTREV BUT WHY SHOULD THE FISH B FED WITH MY MONEY?
WHATS THE POINT OF PLAYING PROPER POKER WHEN U GET STUNG 24/7 (AND ITS A RETORICAL QUESTION)
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : VERY GOOD POST POKERTREV BUT WHY SHOULD THE FISH B FED WITH MY MONEY? WHATS THE POINT OF PLAYING PROPER POKER WHEN U GET STUNG 24/7 (AND ITS A RETORICAL QUESTION) Posted by xFALLENx
Why Should this fish be fed with my money?
Well this is my point fallen, the fish dont need to be fed with your money. Try to find a tourny that reflects your ability.
If I play 60p & £1.15 DYMs I expect to see the fish, but If my ability is much better than that then I move up to £5.50 £11 DYMs and should I feel the need to play againt even better players then I move on to £22 & £33 DYMs and so on and the the same for cash games.
The higher the stakes the lesser the fish.
Keep at it thou fallen - you will turn it round. Good Luck!
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Why Should this fish be fed with my money? Well this is my point fallen, the fish dont need to be fed with your money. Try to find a tourny that reflects your ability. If I play 60p & £1.15 DYMs I expect to see the fish, but If my ability is much better than that then I move up to £5.50 £11 DYMs and should I feel the need to play againt even better players then I move on to £22 & £33 DYMs and so on and the the same for cash games. The higher the stakes the lesser the fish. Keep at it thou fallen - you will turn it round. Good Luck! Posted by POKERTREV
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Why Should this fish be fed with my money? Well this is my point fallen, the fish dont need to be fed with your money. Try to find a tourny that reflects your ability. If I play 60p & £1.15 DYMs I expect to see the fish, but If my ability is much better than that then I move up to £5.50 £11 DYMs and should I feel the need to play againt even better players then I move on to £22 & £33 DYMs and so on and the the same for cash games. The higher the stakes the lesser the fish. Keep at it thou fallen - you will turn it round. Good Luck! Posted by POKERTREV
Exactly!
The tourney where u were called by 6,4 fallen - what was it?
I would class myself as a good and decent tournament player but the best Ive ever done in Sky's 'flagship 8pm tournies' is 4th - and Ive been here since the start! Tournaments are minefields and you need the wind behind you and the cards in ur favour to get to the end successfully.
Many class the £22 deepstack as the best standard tourney on Sky and Ive won that a few times. That skill still doesnt help me when playing a larger runner tournament - the luck factor still needs to be there.
I always look when I'm knocked out of a tourney at where I could have played differently and whether I lost out down to my play.
In fallen's position in this particular tourney I would reflect on the following :
When the cards were turned over - was I happy?
Given the exact same position again, would I do the same?
Would I want to be called by a lesser hand?
Did it annoy me to get outdrawn?
The answer is 'yes' to all of them but that's why we love the game of poker! It kicks us in the privates but we still come back for more !!!!
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Exactly! The tourney where u were called by 6,4 fallen - what was it? I would class myself as a good and decent tournament player but the best Ive ever done in Sky's 'flagship 8pm tournies' is 4th - and Ive been here since the start! Tournaments are minefields and you need the wind behind you and the cards in ur favour to get to the end successfully. Many class the £22 deepstack as the best standard tourney on Sky and Ive won that a few times. That skill still doesnt help me when playing a larger runner tournament - the luck factor still needs to be there. I always look when I'm knocked out of a tourney at where I could have played differently and whether I lost out down to my play. In fallen's position in this particular tourney I would reflect on the following : When the cards were turned over - was I happy? Given the exact same position again, would I do the same? Would I want to be called by a lesser hand? Did it annoy me to get outdrawn? The answer is 'yes' to all of them but that's why we love the game of poker! It kicks us in the privates but we still come back for more !!!! Posted by phil12uk
just had a famous sky suck out had 88 in hand raised a little was called by one player flop 8/4/k only club was the king so i had 3 8s so as was early in tourhy and a bounty hunter went all in was called by ace /king clubs so he had pair off kings no probs i thought the enter the sky factor next card club the now famous river after a pause for what seemed a lifetime i missed the full house so with only 7 clubs that ment he could get yes the miricle club falls in
makes me wonder what the point off playing properly is sara36dd
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : just had a famous sky suck out had 88 in hand raised a little was called by one player flop 8/4/k only club was the king so i had 3 8s so as was early in tourhy and a bounty hunter went all in was called by ace /king clubs so he had pair off kings no probs i thought the enter the sky factor next card club the now famous river after a pause for what seemed a lifetime i missed the full house so with only 7 clubs that ment he could get yes the miricle club falls in makes me wonder what the point off playing properly is sara36dd Posted by sara36dd08
Yep, we've all had them. Couple of days ago I had a very similar hand - dealt 88, flop 822. Checked to preflop raiser and he shoved in with AK. Turn A, river A so I lost to a higher full house. It hurt, it stung, it's improbable but it happens. I'd play it exactly the same next time and I loved it when he shoved in with his AK. Dust yourself off and get on with the next game!!
If the blinds are 500/1000, and I have 6 4 in the big blind, u move all in on the button the small blind folds. I have a stack of 36,000 and u have 6,000. U spin your cards and show me king ten. I will call you! - I class myself as a 'decent' player. DOHH Posted by DOHHHHHHH
DOHHHHHHH i'd like to know ur theory on calling an allin with 6 4 for a 6th of ur stack?
Decent player= calling an allin with 6 4 without thinking of what hand range ur opponent is on and with pott odds of let me get this right, SB 500+1000 BB=1500. SB shoves 6000 POT=7500 Your call is 5500 as you have 1000 already invested in the blind. Your getting just over evens for ur money so you dont have the odds to call.
Lets say she shoves with 20% of hands in that spot which is a big range. Your getting -EV to call so u make that kind off desiscion all the time you will lose long run.
This post isn't a go at you but you make a statement on a post like this which is critisizing bad calls and chasers and i think do you really know what ur on about?
Maybe the post doesnt make it clear that my opponent shows me king ten before I call......
If thats wrong then so be it, - But If you read my post at the bottom of the previous page I think its been overlooked, about my approach to tournaments....it might help u understand why Id call that.
Its just risk reward. - Very little risk, another 5k to win 6.5k? - The button shoves n the sb folds...?
Maybe the post doesnt make it clear that my opponent shows me king ten before I call...... If thats wrong then so be it, - But If you read my post at the bottom of the previous page I think its been overlooked, about my approach to tournaments....it might help u understand why Id call that. Its just risk reward. - Very little risk, another 5k to win 6.5k? - The button shoves n the sb folds...? DOHH Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Tournament plays about building a stack not eliminating players which you say in ur thread.
Poker is a game off odds,you say very little risk 6 4 for just over evens, your saying very little risk your dominated by most hands preflop and your racing vs 22 and 33 only lol.
Pot odds and hand selection determines the risk.
Now if your holding a marginal hand like 10 j and your getting between 2/1 and 4/1 fair enought your making a small risk for a big reward,but just over evens your taking a risk for you say only a 6th of your stack but a hand dominated pre by almost anything and for a small reward just over evens.
He has shown me king ten.....before I have called, im not worried about being dominated in this example I know what my opponent has for sure!!
I made the example up to illustrate to the poster that calling with poor hands isnt as bad as it might look sometimes.
I dont know the odds exactly, but hes asking me for 5 k to win 6.5k with 6-4 against king ten.
Maybe someone can work out the odds here and the price required to call? 5k to win 6.5k? - 120% return? something like that, for a race that I know is something around 64-36? roughly?
I dunno, but its not a million miles away from the right price. With a stack of 36k I presume Im pretty deep in the tourny here.
Maybe Im wrong, ur the sng specialist right? - So ive every faith that all ur saying is correct - but I dont think its ever a 'terrible' call.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : just had a famous sky suck out had 88 in hand raised a little was called by one player flop 8/4/k only club was the king so i had 3 8s so as was early in tourhy and a bounty hunter went all in was called by ace /king clubs so he had pair off kings no probs i thought the enter the sky factor next card club the now famous river after a pause for what seemed a lifetime i missed the full house so with only 7 clubs that ment he could get yes the miricle club falls in makes me wonder what the point off playing properly is sara36dd Posted by sara36dd08
Actually your MIRACLE will happen around 14% of the time, trouble is you probably don't remember the other 86% of the time your trips won in that situation.
In fairness AK suited against Pocket 88's I'd call that one all day
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Actually your MIRACLE will happen around 14% of the time, trouble is you probably don't remember the other 86% of the time your trips won in that situation. In fairness AK suited against Pocket 88's I'd call that one all day Just my Opinion, but hey it's the only one I have Posted by JockBMW
jock in a race from pocket pairs yes but calling when the flops down and i have trips he has a pair of kings and 3 clubs not 14% from there more like 4/5%
He has shown me king ten.....before I have called, im not worried about being dominated in this example I know what my opponent has for sure!! I made the example up to illustrate to the poster that calling with poor hands isnt as bad as it might look sometimes. I dont know the odds exactly, but hes asking me for 5 k to win 6.5k with 6-4 against king ten. Maybe someone can work out the odds here and the price required to call? 5k to win 6.5k? - 120% return? something like that, for a race that I know is something around 64-36? roughly? I dunno, but its not a million miles away from the right price. With a stack of 36k I presume Im pretty deep in the tourny here. Maybe Im wrong, ur the sng specialist right? - So ive every faith that all ur saying is correct - but I dont think its ever a 'terrible' call. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Well it's a terrible call vs the hand you put em on aswell.
Put it in sit and go wiz its a fold.
Put it in end game tools its a fold.
Defend ur self thats fine all you have to do is say i got it wrong not hard.
The post is about bad calls and as ur a main contributer to the forum everyones taking onboard what you say but stating that play undermines the post thats all.
I dont call my self an expert and am not looking for an argument the fact is that each post gives advice to the person who starts the post or an answer, ur picking sides hes not wrong he s right why you against what he said ect ect.
The facts are fallens venting a bit of frustration. People are posting her sharkscope stats without asking thats out of order. Your telling people that decent players should make bad calls.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Well it's a terrible call vs the hand you put em on aswell. Put it in sit and go wiz its a fold. Put it in end game tools its a fold. Defend ur self thats fine all you have to do is say i got it wrong not hard. The post is about bad calls and as ur a main contributer to the forum everyones taking onboard what you say but stating that play undermines the post thats all. I dont call my self an expert and am not looking for an argument the fact is that each post gives advice to the person who starts the post or an answer, ur picking sides hes not wrong he s right why you against what he said ect ect. The facts are fallens venting a bit of frustration. People are posting her sharkscope stats without asking thats out of order. Your telling people that decent players should make bad calls. Peace out. Posted by jimifloyd
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : just had a famous sky suck out had 88 in hand raised a little was called by one player flop 8/4/k only club was the king so i had 3 8s so as was early in tourhy and a bounty hunter went all in was called by ace /king clubs so he had pair off kings no probs i thought the enter the sky factor next card club the now famous river after a pause for what seemed a lifetime i missed the full house so with only 7 clubs that ment he could get yes the miricle club falls in makes me wonder what the point off playing properly is sara36dd Posted by sara36dd08
I'm struggling to understand this post. 1. There appear to be two Kc in the pack. 2. There would be 9 clubs left unless you knew where 2 of the other clubs were.
Yes, it's a bad beat - as you say later you are nearly 95% to win after that flop - but very few people are going to put down top pair/top kicker. This sort of beat happens regularly (slightly more than 1 time in twenty, in fact :-) ) and we just have to accept them.
He has shown me king ten.....before I have called, im not worried about being dominated in this example I know what my opponent has for sure!! I made the example up to illustrate to the poster that calling with poor hands isnt as bad as it might look sometimes. I dont know the odds exactly, but hes asking me for 5 k to win 6.5k with 6-4 against king ten. Maybe someone can work out the odds here and the price required to call? 5k to win 6.5k? - 120% return? something like that, for a race that I know is something around 64-36? roughly? I dunno, but its not a million miles away from the right price. With a stack of 36k I presume Im pretty deep in the tourny here. Maybe Im wrong, ur the sng specialist right? - So ive every faith that all ur saying is correct - but I dont think its ever a 'terrible' call. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Hi mate
In this example you are actually putting in 5k to win 7.5k I think (the 6k stack plus the blinds) so you are definitely getting the correct odds to call here imo providing you know your opponent has 2 high cards and not the overpair. I agree with you, its by no means a terrible call in this particular situation.
Comments
Sorry, I think we've got our wires well and truly crossed here! lol I know you weren't having a pop at me and I certainly didn't direct my comments at you! I think we should get off this thread now, its getting far too heated!
Best wishes to you and Dav.
Sky Poker is for players of all abilities, I didnt see a sign on the home page saying experieced players only - No Fish or Muppets as you call them.
I love to play against the fish and the muppets - Leave Them Alone and let them learn how to play as you had to when you first started in your quest to be a great poker player.
If you beleive you are a solid player, then I suggest you enter toureys & cash games that reflect your ability and leave the fish alone.
The fish have to be fed otherwise the would not survive.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!!:
VERY GOOD POST POKERTREV BUT WHY SHOULD THE FISH B FED WITH MY MONEY?WHATS THE POINT OF PLAYING PROPER POKER WHEN U GET STUNG 24/7 (AND ITS A RETORICAL QUESTION)
Well this is my point fallen, the fish dont need to be fed with your money. Try to find a tourny that reflects your ability.
If I play 60p & £1.15 DYMs I expect to see the fish, but If my ability is much better than that then I move up to £5.50 £11 DYMs and should I feel the need to play againt even better players then I move on to £22 & £33 DYMs and so on and the the same for cash games.
The higher the stakes the lesser the fish.
Keep at it thou fallen - you will turn it round. Good Luck!
just had a famous sky suck out
had 88 in hand
raised a little was called by one player
flop 8/4/k only club was the king
so i had 3 8s
so as was early in tourhy and a bounty hunter went all in
was called by ace /king clubs
so he had pair off kings
no probs i thought
the enter the sky factor
next card club
the now famous river
after a pause for what seemed a lifetime
i missed the full house so with only 7 clubs that ment he could get yes the miricle club falls in
makes me wonder what the point off playing properly is
sara36dd
Decent player= calling an allin with 6 4 without thinking of what hand range ur opponent is on
and with pott odds of let me get this right, SB 500+1000 BB=1500. SB shoves 6000
POT=7500 Your call is 5500 as you have 1000 already invested in the blind.
Your getting just over evens for ur money so you dont have the odds to call.
Lets say she shoves with 20% of hands in that spot which is a big range.
Your getting -EV to call so u make that kind off desiscion all the time you will lose long run.
This post isn't a go at you but you make a statement on a post like this which is critisizing bad calls and chasers and i think do you really know what ur on about?
Maybe the post doesnt make it clear that my opponent shows me king ten before I call......
If thats wrong then so be it, - But If you read my post at the bottom of the previous page I think its been overlooked, about my approach to tournaments....it might help u understand why Id call that.
Its just risk reward. - Very little risk, another 5k to win 6.5k? - The button shoves n the sb folds...?
DOHH
Poker is a game off odds,you say very little risk 6 4 for just over evens, your saying very little risk
your dominated by most hands preflop and your racing vs 22 and 33 only lol.
Pot odds and hand selection determines the risk.
Now if your holding a marginal hand like 10 j and your getting between 2/1 and 4/1 fair enought
your making a small risk for a big reward,but just over evens your taking a risk for you say only a 6th of your stack but a hand dominated pre by almost anything and for a small reward just over evens.
He has shown me king ten.....before I have called, im not worried about being dominated in this example I know what my opponent has for sure!!
I made the example up to illustrate to the poster that calling with poor hands isnt as bad as it might look sometimes.
I dont know the odds exactly, but hes asking me for 5 k to win 6.5k with 6-4 against king ten.
Maybe someone can work out the odds here and the price required to call? 5k to win 6.5k? - 120% return? something like that, for a race that I know is something around 64-36? roughly?
I dunno, but its not a million miles away from the right price. With a stack of 36k I presume Im pretty deep in the tourny here.
Maybe Im wrong, ur the sng specialist right? - So ive every faith that all ur saying is correct - but I dont think its ever a 'terrible' call.
in a race from pocket pairs yes
but calling when the flops down and i have trips
he has a pair of kings and 3 clubs
not 14% from there more like 4/5%
Put it in sit and go wiz its a fold.
Put it in end game tools its a fold.
Defend ur self thats fine all you have to do is say i got it wrong not hard.
The post is about bad calls and as ur a main contributer to the forum everyones taking onboard what you say but stating that play undermines the post thats all.
I dont call my self an expert and am not looking for an argument the fact is that each post gives advice to the person who starts the post or an answer, ur picking sides hes not wrong he s right why you against what he said ect ect.
The facts are fallens venting a bit of frustration.
People are posting her sharkscope stats without asking thats out of order.
Your telling people that decent players should make bad calls.
Peace out.
1. There appear to be two Kc in the pack.
2. There would be 9 clubs left unless you knew where 2 of the other clubs were.
Yes, it's a bad beat - as you say later you are nearly 95% to win after that flop - but very few people are going to put down top pair/top kicker. This sort of beat happens regularly (slightly more than 1 time in twenty, in fact :-) ) and we just have to accept them.
In this example you are actually putting in 5k to win 7.5k I think (the 6k stack plus the blinds) so you are definitely getting the correct odds to call here imo providing you know your opponent has 2 high cards and not the overpair. I agree with you, its by no means a terrible call in this particular situation.