jeeeeez... the point is some people will call with any two cards because its cheap relative to their stack size, people also tend to gain pleasure from knocking others out and so call light. 2 points to note... dont be surprised to be called with any two cards by big stack when you are short stacked and remember that even AK is not that far ahead of hands like 72 and so all in pre flop you will lose more than you expect to.
jeeeeez... the point is some people will call with any two cards because its cheap relative to their stack size, people also tend to gain pleasure from knocking others out and so call light. 2 points to note... dont be surprised to be called with any two cards by big stack when you are short stacked and remember that even AK is not that far ahead of hands like 72 and so all in pre flop you will lose more than you expect to. Posted by BlackFish3
True, but you forgot to mention that a short stack should call a big stack or push with any two cards if the time is right. The cards are NOT the most important thing in tournament play, particularly from the mid-point onward.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : True, but you forgot to mention that a short stack should call a big stack or push with any two cards if the time is right. The cards are NOT the most important thing in tournament play, particularly from the mid-point onward. ps xx to debs Posted by elsadog
Does this mean you are back with us Alan? I've missed you on the tables.. or er...under them!
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Does this mean you are back with us Alan? I've missed you on the tables.. or er...under them! x Posted by LML
Never been away Lisa. Have been playing some cash on Sky (quietly) and tournaments in another place (I've always played tournaments in another place). I'll give it a go tonight in something and see how the poker gods are treating me.
Whether I play or not I'm always under your table in spirit )
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Never been away Lisa. Have been playing some cash on Sky (quietly) and tournaments in another place (I've always played tournaments in another place). I'll give it a go tonight in something and see how the poker gods are treating me. Whether I play or not I'm always under your table in spirit ) Posted by elsadog
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : True, but you forgot to mention that a short stack should call a big stack or push with any two cards if the time is right. The cards are NOT the most important thing in tournament play, particularly from the mid-point onward. ps xx to debs Posted by elsadog
yea i know but i was more addressing the whole bad beat thing. im not going to write a book on strategy on here am i
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : yea i know but i was more addressing the whole bad beat thing. im not going to write a book on strategy on here am i Posted by BlackFish3
And here we have it.. The essential difference between men and women. The men are being men and are all trying to solve 'the problem'.. (That's not me having a pop by the way it's just what you menfolk do best) Fallen is not asking or expecting it to be solved. She knows the kind of game she is playing and she knows the likelihood that she will encounter all manner of players at the table. She also know her own game and how she feels about it. Let's face it..It just feels good to vent sometimes! Fallen is simply saying that she's been experiencing the downside of playing online for a bit too long and to be honest it's making her frustrated. This post is NOT about the one hand mentioned at all..It's about all the times she's got the raw end of the stick and the fact that it's all she seems to be getting at present. We all know how it feels regardless of the statistics or the odds. What she needs is a little empathy, a little undertanding and reassurances that she made the right move and that given the law of averages, things will turn around. I applaud you all for debating it and bashing it out and trying to SOLVE it. But this (the actual point of the thread) can't be solved with numbers or theories and doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere. Yes we all get tired of 'Bad beat stories' and 'I'm leaving' threads but at the end of the day the people on this forum are a community of players and friends and there should never be a day when we can't just say: "Mate that sucks, You're a good player.. You'll win out more times in the longrun and I hope your luck gets better.. Big hugs etc etc" Fallen I hope the poker tide changes for you soon and you start to enjoy the tables here with us again. The standard of play differs from table to table and from level to level. But there will always be bad players on high stakes tables and good players on low stakes tables to balance it all out. God help us. GROUP HUG... Wishing you a very lucky 2010 Lady. Hope to see a BRAG post from you very soon xLM Posted by LML
Being a man and heartless LMAO,,this is an excellent post and i fully agree with you.Fallen has been a little down the past few days and i can understand this.I thought the post she started was getting away from the point and you have written your answer as it should have been in the first place.Helping her as she needed,not making a mountain out of a mole hill,as most have done.Ive tried to help her understand being a good friend,but it needed a womans touch,like most things do.I just hope she feels a lot better.thank you.
hi fallen, played with you last night (oh er misses) and like i said last nite your game is great. as you well know we had a muppet on our table last nite blinds 100/200 and he calls an all in bet (4.5k) with k8 sooooted and hits,it did take 2hrs to get rid of him but he did call one too many hands and got taken down. it is fustrating and as im comming out of the worst and most expensive mnth of poker i have ever had in 3yrs i understand completly where your comming from. luckily i dont play pokerto win vast sums of money i play it because i enjoy the game and like golf(my other past time )there are things about that sport that drives me nuts (hooks slices and shanks!!!) just got to roll with it and enjoy it when it goes good and kick the dog/ golf bag when it doesnt. chin up and see you on the tables soon it was a pleasure playing with you (snigger snigger) x
It was a 227 runner Tourney, & there were 51 players left.
It went All-In (he covered everyone), Call All-In, Call All-In, & then the BB, sat there with 5 x Big Blinds, called too.
The first 3 players showed......
A-A
Q-Q
T-T
The Big Blind (remember he had 5 x BB) had 8s-7s. And he won Pot 1, & quadrupled up.
Nobody raised an eyebrow.
It might surprise some of you to see the pre-flop odds, which were.....
A-A = 52.3%
Q-Q = 16.3%
T-T = 14.0%
5d-4d = 17.4%
So 8-7 man was SECOND favourite in a 4 way coup v A-A, Q-Q & T-T. So, if all three hands were face up, 8-7 man should snap call. And he did.
It was not on Sky Poker, by the way. It was a £100 Live Tourney.
ANY player who understands poker would call there in a heartbeat.
Note, by the way, that A-A man was only even-money. In other words, he was effectively flipping. He was a marginal favourite against "the field", that's all.
If we hypothetically added a FIFTH player into the mix, wiith, say, K-K, A-A man is now only 42% to win. So he is not even favourite in the coup. He has the best chance, but he's not favourite to win "against the field".
Funny things, numbers, & a fascinating game, poker. Those who can figure the stats & the maths do OK.
I saw a lovely play yesterday, by the way. It was a 227 runner Tourney, & there were 51 players left. It went All-In (he covered everyone), Call All-In, Call All-In, & then the BB, sat there with 5 x Big Blinds, called too. The first 3 players showed...... A-A Q-Q T-T The Big Blind (remember he had 5 x BB) had 8s-7s. And he won Pot 1, & quadrupled up. Nobody raised an eyebrow. It might surprise some of you to see the pre-flop odds, which were..... A-A = 52.3% Q-Q = 16.3% T-T = 14.0% 5d-4d = 17.4% So 8-7 man was SECOND favourite in a 4 way coup v A-A, Q-Q & T-T. So, if all three hands were face up, 8-7 man should snap call. And he did. It was not on Sky Poker, by the way. It was £100 Live Tourney. ANY player who understands poker would call there in a heartbeat. Note, by the way, that A-A man was only even-money. In other words, he was effectively flipping. He was a marginal favourite against "the field", that's all. If we hypothetically added a FIFTH player into the mix, wiith, say, K-K, A-A man is now only 42% to win. So he is not even favourite in the coup. He has the best chance, but he's not favourite to win "against the field". Funny things, numbers, & a fascinating game, poker. Those who can figure the stats & the maths do OK. Posted by Tikay10
Similar to ur hand on mastercash the other week Tikay, where i said i'd be very tempted to call with 7,8 sooted
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Similar to ur hand on mastercash the other week Tikay, where i said i'd be very tempted to call with 7,8 sooted Posted by phil12uk
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!!: The first 3 players showed...... A-A Q-Q T-T The Big Blind (remember he had 5 x BB) had 8s-7s. And he won Pot 1, & quadrupled up. Nobody raised an eyebrow.
Well thats a nice if not brave play if I don't say so myself - Sometimes its not always about knowing your stats (but it does help) its about gut instincts. With 5 Big Blinds left and a giant stack up for grabs maybe this is your best shot of progressing further in the tournament.
Everybody Loves an Underdog - Just not in Poker it seams!!
I wonder how many other players would have made this call? or complained about it?
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : The first 3 players showed...... A-A Q-Q T-T The Big Blind (remember he had 5 x BB) had 8s-7s. And he won Pot 1, & quadrupled up. Nobody raised an eyebrow. Well thats a nice if not brave play if I don't say so myself - Sometimes its not always about knowing your stats (but it does help) its about gut instincts. With 5 Big Blinds left and a giant stack up for grabs maybe this is your best shot of progressing further in the tournament. Everybody Loves an Underdog - Just not in Poker it seams!! I wonder how many other players would have made this call? or complained about it? Posted by POKERTREV
Very nicely put Trev!
ANY half-decent player snap-calls there, there's no question about it. And the other players, who lost, never moaned or complained - they all understood the play was 100% correct.
People who think the best hand has a right to win don't, I'm afraid, understand how poker works. The maths don't lie though - over time, the maths will hold up. And those who get their money in good will do best. But they have to come to terms with the fact that the best hand does not, & should not, always win.
The legendary Garry Bush (European Player of the Year) in about 2003 always used to say that 80% of his 50/50's lost......
78 (suited or not) with such a big pot and ''deep in the red zone'' is a no-brainer........in every time. Posted by elsadog
Just a bit!
The thing was, none of the "Big Pair" boys chuntered or complained. They understand that if you play poker, these things will happen, & they are equipped to cope with a little adversity.
If you can only enjoy Poker when you win a hand, or a Tourney, it's best to play something else!
The WSOP Main Event is, arguaby, the best Tournament in the world. How long is it since the best player in the world won it? You'll need to go back a few years!
It's called variance, & every poker player needs to understand it.
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY GONE UP....YEAH RIGHT!!!! : Just a bit! The thing was, none of the "Big Pair" boys chuntered or complained. They understand that if you play poker, these things will happen, & they are equipped to cope with a little adversity. If you can only enjoy Poker when you win a hand, or a Tourney, it's best to play something else! The WSOP Main Event is, arguaby, the best Tournament in the world. How long is it since the best player in the world won it? You'll need to go back a few years! It's called variance, & every poker player needs to understand it. Posted by Tikay10
Johnny Chan won it in 1987 which surely should have made him one of the best players in the world when he also won it in 1988.
So is 1988 the right answer? if not I will look up trains on google instead lol
Comments
ps xx to debs
Does this mean you are back with us Alan? I've missed you on the tables.. or er...under them!
x
Whether I play or not I'm always under your table in spirit
I'm in the 8.15 deepie if you fancy it
x
Yikes, some thread!
Bad calls, "muppets", "donks", moans & groans, it was always so, on every Online poker site on the planet. Always. Ever.
Some understand that bad calls are good for us, & have the mental strength to cope with them, others just get frustrated.
The weird thing - the really weird thing.....is that numerous Posts blame Sky Poker for this.
How extraordinary!
I saw a lovely play yesterday, by the way.
It was a 227 runner Tourney, & there were 51 players left.
It went All-In (he covered everyone), Call All-In, Call All-In, & then the BB, sat there with 5 x Big Blinds, called too.
The first 3 players showed......
A-A
Q-Q
T-T
The Big Blind (remember he had 5 x BB) had 8s-7s. And he won Pot 1, & quadrupled up.
Nobody raised an eyebrow.
It might surprise some of you to see the pre-flop odds, which were.....
A-A = 52.3%
Q-Q = 16.3%
T-T = 14.0%
5d-4d = 17.4%
So 8-7 man was SECOND favourite in a 4 way coup v A-A, Q-Q & T-T. So, if all three hands were face up, 8-7 man should snap call. And he did.
It was not on Sky Poker, by the way. It was a £100 Live Tourney.
ANY player who understands poker would call there in a heartbeat.
Note, by the way, that A-A man was only even-money. In other words, he was effectively flipping. He was a marginal favourite against "the field", that's all.
If we hypothetically added a FIFTH player into the mix, wiith, say, K-K, A-A man is now only 42% to win. So he is not even favourite in the coup. He has the best chance, but he's not favourite to win "against the field".
Funny things, numbers, & a fascinating game, poker. Those who can figure the stats & the maths do OK.
The first 3 players showed...... A-A Q-Q T-T The Big Blind (remember he had 5 x BB) had 8s-7s. And he won Pot 1, & quadrupled up. Nobody raised an eyebrow.
Well thats a nice if not brave play if I don't say so myself - Sometimes its not always about knowing your stats (but it does help) its about gut instincts. With 5 Big Blinds left and a giant stack up for grabs maybe this is your best shot of progressing further in the tournament.
Everybody Loves an Underdog - Just not in Poker it seams!!
I wonder how many other players would have made this call? or complained about it?
ANY half-decent player snap-calls there, there's no question about it. And the other players, who lost, never moaned or complained - they all understood the play was 100% correct.
People who think the best hand has a right to win don't, I'm afraid, understand how poker works. The maths don't lie though - over time, the maths will hold up. And those who get their money in good will do best. But they have to come to terms with the fact that the best hand does not, & should not, always win.
The legendary Garry Bush (European Player of the Year) in about 2003 always used to say that 80% of his 50/50's lost......
The thing was, none of the "Big Pair" boys chuntered or complained. They understand that if you play poker, these things will happen, & they are equipped to cope with a little adversity.
If you can only enjoy Poker when you win a hand, or a Tourney, it's best to play something else!
The WSOP Main Event is, arguaby, the best Tournament in the world. How long is it since the best player in the world won it? You'll need to go back a few years!
It's called variance, & every poker player needs to understand it.
So is 1988 the right answer? if not I will look up trains on google instead lol