if anybody needs any encouragement to play plo8 sng,s then i can assure you that im going to play a lot of them and im **** useless. it doesnt stop tikay from playing so why not me?|
Do not play every hand. Many players seem to be in every hand especially new players to the game.This is not going to get any respect for your hand from experienced players.It is more advisable to wait for a while and when you do play a hand play it offensively rather than defensively.You have to make players cautious of you but when you are re-raised it is always player dependant (using notes from past encounters) as to what your next move is.Until you build up player notes on most of the regulars you should be very cautious because they will eat you alive (although usually in a friendly manner with the odd exception such as chuckles).In time you will have hours of fun without it costing the Earth, maybe even making a wee profit.
Note the players who will open pots with any pp in their hand and then it allows you to gauge your own hand strength vs someone with say TT/88 in their hand. Remember its a preflop game in the late stages and pick your spots.
When i played i think i had NLH DYM habits of incorporating ICM and fold equity too much, does this really apply to PLO8 as much? Probably a stupid question but it didn't really do me any favours. Think the blinds get far too big on the average game compared to NLH DYMs
I can't answer you Matt, as I don't know what ICM and fold equity is! Well, I probably do but I'd call it something else.
Ok, my TOP TIP For some extremely strange reason, a lot of PLO8 players appear to have no raise button. Even in the later stages of a DYM when it should be an obvious shove or fold situation. Ok, so a certain percentage of the limpers will usually snap call if you pot raise them, a certain percentage will usually fold if you pot raise them. Take player notes when starting to play, you will see this happen at tables all the time. Knowing who is likely to do what, is a huge advantage. Secondly, likewise, a lot of players do not have a fold button pre flop. To be blunt, I don't believe a lot of players have any sort of concept or understanding as to what a good starting hand is, or if they do, they don't care. So, if you raise them, they are at minimum going to call and often will come over the top whilst holding a weak hand. Knowing who these players are is absolutely 100% vital. You can't steal their blinds with a nonsense hand yourself, as they will gladly call with nonsense. I colour code these players red, the only colour I use actually. I can see at a glance my table position in relation to the lunatics and I immediately know who not to make a move against. Unfortunately, knowing who does what, will only come from experience, there's no quick fix.
Finally, I don't think anyone has mentioned losing yet. I don't want to scare anyone away from the game, but it is extremely easy to lose this game. It is extremely easy to lose lots of games in a short period of time. Playing perfectly, doing what you should be doing, when you should be doing it, all the time, does not mean you will win. I know of course that NLH has it's share of running bad stories, bad beat stories, but watch out kiddo, unless you have played a lot of PLO8, you ain't seen nowt yet! If you are prone to tilting, save your money, PLO8 isn't for you.
I can't answer you Matt, as I don't know what ICM and fold equity is! Well, I probably do but I'd call it something else. Ok, my TOP TIP For some extremely strange reason, a lot of PLO8 players appear to have no raise button. Even in the later stages of a DYM when it should be an obvious shove or fold situation. Ok, so a certain percentage of the limpers will usually snap call if you pot raise them, a certain percentage will usually fold if you pot raise them. Take player notes when starting to play, you will see this happen at tables all the time. Knowing who is likely to do what, is a huge advantage. Secondly, likewise, a lot of players do not have a fold button pre flop. To be blunt, I don't believe a lot of players have any sort of concept or understanding as to what a good starting hand is, or if they do, they don't care. So, if you raise them, they are at minimum going to call and often will come over the top whilst holding a weak hand. Knowing who these players are is absolutely 100% vital. You can't steal their blinds with a nonsense hand yourself, as they will gladly call with nonsense. I colour code these players red, the only colour I use actually. I can see at a glance my table position in relation to the lunatics and I immediately know who not to make a move against. Unfortunately, knowing who does what, will only come from experience, there's no quick fix. Finally, I don't think anyone has mentioned losing yet. I don't want to scare anyone away from the game, but it is extremely easy to lose this game. It is extremely easy to lose lots of games in a short period of time. Playing perfectly, doing what you should be doing, when you should be doing it, all the time, does not mean you will win. I know of course that NLH has it's share of running bad stories, bad beat stories, but watch out kiddo, unless you have played a lot of PLO8, you ain't seen nowt yet! If you are prone to tilting, save your money, PLO8 isn't for you. Posted by Macacgirl1
As my recent form will tell, this is very true. Worst losing streak for me ever without doing much wrong. Luckily i don't tilt at the tables, just accept it for what it is. Won't put me off playing though ! :-)
Great idea for a thread Tikay, hopefully it will encourage more people to try PLO8 as it is certainly a game with far more dimensions than holdem.
From my point of view I love the game, I especially love how friendly it is here on Sky. I am a rubbish cash player, a reasonably competent MTT player and, I think, a losing PLO8 STT player although one day I will keep some records and find out! I play the PLO8 STTs for the fun and banter and play well within my bankroll so don't mind losing the odd few £s, I am probably amongst the easy money at the table!
Here's a few tips from me (for what it's worth) on hand rankings:-
The best hand pre flop in PLO8 is AA23 double suited (ds) if you can get this all in pre flop then do so. Other hand types (hopefully in some sort of order, although I haven't checked) are:-
AA2x, AA3x AA4x etc etc remember that the low hand is very important so A2 for the low is far more likely to win the low than A3 and this becomes more relevant the further into the pack you go, A8 for example is unlikely to win you the low.
AAxx - with no low - remember these cannot win ANY low so you are only playing for the high only, but this is certainly a hand you can and probably should go to war with in the later stages.
KK23, KK23, QQ23, QQ24 - hands with a high pair and non nut low - basically these can be good two way hands and you can play them but be wary, post flop any ace means you may have lost the high and any A2 or A3 out there means that you may not have, or be drawing to the nut low. As you see these hands can be trouble. In my view if you can see a cheap flop early then they can be worth playing but don't get 'married' to them. Obviously late on you can push with them but beware, if you're called your probably not gong to be a favorite.
2345, 2346, & other low only drawing hands - remember you are dreading any 2 or 3 high card flop so again try not to get commited with them. On the plus side you can scoop with 2345 on boards like A678x so they can have potential.
AKQJ, AKQ10, AQJ10 and other High only hands - again may win you a big pot early on but most good players won't get too attached to these holdings unless they can get in cheaply and they hit the flop hard.
9988, 10987, 8877 8865 etc - hands with middle cards - these are pretty much garbage in PLO8 and you probably shouldn't be playing them at any stage in a STT. However they do get played and there's nothing more frustrating than getting AA23 all in pre against 101099 and see your opponent hit a set on the flop and no low redraw!
All hands in PLO8 are much stronger when double suited (eg 2 hearts and 2 diamonds) and much weaker when they have no suits and therefore NO chance of hitting a flush.
Remember the dynamics of your hand and, importantly, your opponent's hand can change dramatically after the flop. In the later stages that may not be so important as you are trying to either pick up the blinds or get pot committed pre flop but it certainly can be early on.
That's my input, just on had rankings, for now and I'm sure others can add to or indeed correct anything I've written.
Well this thread has done some good for me............finally cashed in a DYM!! Still a long way to go though.......lot's of spots I'm unsure of still. Like the hand below. 1. Am I OK calling in the sb? Should I be raising or just folding? 2. How is the rest of the hand? Should I be check/folding on the turn? waller02 Small blind 50.00 50.00 1779.99 sandy562 Big blind 100.00 150.00 3570.01 Your hole cards 7 9 7 J countdown7 Fold john10878 Fold kimey1710 Fold waller02 Call 50.00 200.00 1729.99 sandy562 Check Flop 9 9 10 waller02 Bet 150.00 350.00 1579.99 sandy562 Call 150.00 500.00 3420.01 Turn A waller02 Bet 300.00 800.00 1279.99 sandy562 Call 300.00 1100.00 3120.01 River 4 waller02 Check sandy562 Check waller02 Show 7 9 7 J sandy562 Show 9 5 Q 2 sandy562 Win high Three 9s 1100.00 4220.01 No qualifying low hand Posted by waller02
Horrible starting hand - bin it ! Unless you have good notes on BB, that he will fold a lot - then raise to steal. Sometimes you just have to give the BB a walk.
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Horrible starting hand - bin it ! Unless you have good notes on BB, that he will fold a lot - then raise to steal. Sometimes you just have to give the BB a walk. Posted by VespaPX
In dyms where survival is key aggression can pay dividends. plo8 is a very drawing game so you don't need the nuts just a hand with equity. The folds will pay for the outdraws. Only an experiment at the moment but it's working ok. Posted by GELDY
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : From Level 1 or later when the blinds are bigger? Posted by VespaPX
from the first hand, although you are now looking for folds post flop or calls when you are ahead. If you are already Billy big stack by the time you get to 4 handed then the war is almost won.
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : from the first hand, although you are now looking for folds post flop or calls when you are ahead. If you are already Billy big stack by the time you get to 4 handed then the war is almost won. Posted by GELDY
If you are the big stack , 4 handed, would you still be applying pressure on 2nd & 3rd stacks? Or just let them get on with it against the shorty?
Comments
Many players seem to be in every hand especially new players to the game.This is not going to get any respect for your hand from experienced players.It is more advisable to wait for a while and when you do play a hand play it offensively rather than defensively.You have to make players cautious of you but when you are re-raised it is always player dependant
(using notes from past encounters) as to what your next move is.Until you build up player notes on most of the regulars you should be very cautious because they will eat you alive (although usually in a friendly manner with the odd exception such as chuckles).In time you will have hours of fun without it costing the Earth, maybe even making a wee profit.
Enjoy your time at the tables,
Eon
Note the players who will open pots with any pp in their hand and then it allows you to gauge your own hand strength vs someone with say TT/88 in their hand. Remember its a preflop game in the late stages and pick your spots.
I can't answer you Matt, as I don't know what ICM and fold equity is! Well, I probably do but I'd call it something else.
Ok, my TOP TIP
For some extremely strange reason, a lot of PLO8 players appear to have no raise button. Even in the later stages of a DYM when it should be an obvious shove or fold situation. Ok, so a certain percentage of the limpers will usually snap call if you pot raise them, a certain percentage will usually fold if you pot raise them. Take player notes when starting to play, you will see this happen at tables all the time. Knowing who is likely to do what, is a huge advantage.
Secondly, likewise, a lot of players do not have a fold button pre flop. To be blunt, I don't believe a lot of players have any sort of concept or understanding as to what a good starting hand is, or if they do, they don't care. So, if you raise them, they are at minimum going to call and often will come over the top whilst holding a weak hand. Knowing who these players are is absolutely 100% vital. You can't steal their blinds with a nonsense hand yourself, as they will gladly call with nonsense. I colour code these players red, the only colour I use actually. I can see at a glance my table position in relation to the lunatics and I immediately know who not to make a move against.
Unfortunately, knowing who does what, will only come from experience, there's no quick fix.
Finally, I don't think anyone has mentioned losing yet. I don't want to scare anyone away from the game, but it is extremely easy to lose this game. It is extremely easy to lose lots of games in a short period of time. Playing perfectly, doing what you should be doing, when you should be doing it, all the time, does not mean you will win. I know of course that NLH has it's share of running bad stories, bad beat stories, but watch out kiddo, unless you have played a lot of PLO8, you ain't seen nowt yet! If you are prone to tilting, save your money, PLO8 isn't for you.
Tremendous Post by Twiglet Lady.
As she notes, amongst other things, many players lack an understanding of " Preferred Hand Ranges" in PLO8.
We can address that on this thread.
Worst losing streak for me ever without doing much wrong.
Luckily i don't tilt at the tables, just accept it for what it is.
Won't put me off playing though ! :-)
From my point of view I love the game, I especially love how friendly it is here on Sky. I am a rubbish cash player, a reasonably competent MTT player and, I think, a losing PLO8 STT player although one day I will keep some records and find out! I play the PLO8 STTs for the fun and banter and play well within my bankroll so don't mind losing the odd few £s, I am probably amongst the easy money at the table!
Here's a few tips from me (for what it's worth) on hand rankings:-
The best hand pre flop in PLO8 is AA23 double suited (ds) if you can get this all in pre flop then do so. Other hand types (hopefully in some sort of order, although I haven't checked) are:-
AA2x, AA3x AA4x etc etc remember that the low hand is very important so A2 for the low is far more likely to win the low than A3 and this becomes more relevant the further into the pack you go, A8 for example is unlikely to win you the low.
AAxx - with no low - remember these cannot win ANY low so you are only playing for the high only, but this is certainly a hand you can and probably should go to war with in the later stages.
KK23, KK23, QQ23, QQ24 - hands with a high pair and non nut low - basically these can be good two way hands and you can play them but be wary, post flop any ace means you may have lost the high and any A2 or A3 out there means that you may not have, or be drawing to the nut low. As you see these hands can be trouble. In my view if you can see a cheap flop early then they can be worth playing but don't get 'married' to them. Obviously late on you can push with them but beware, if you're called your probably not gong to be a favorite.
2345, 2346, & other low only drawing hands - remember you are dreading any 2 or 3 high card flop so again try not to get commited with them. On the plus side you can scoop with 2345 on boards like A678x so they can have potential.
AKQJ, AKQ10, AQJ10 and other High only hands - again may win you a big pot early on but most good players won't get too attached to these holdings unless they can get in cheaply and they hit the flop hard.
9988, 10987, 8877 8865 etc - hands with middle cards - these are pretty much garbage in PLO8 and you probably shouldn't be playing them at any stage in a STT. However they do get played and there's nothing more frustrating than getting AA23 all in pre against 101099 and see your opponent hit a set on the flop and no low redraw!
All hands in PLO8 are much stronger when double suited (eg 2 hearts and 2 diamonds) and much weaker when they have no suits and therefore NO chance of hitting a flush.
Remember the dynamics of your hand and, importantly, your opponent's hand can change dramatically after the flop. In the later stages that may not be so important as you are trying to either pick up the blinds or get pot committed pre flop but it certainly can be early on.
That's my input, just on had rankings, for now and I'm sure others can add to or indeed correct anything I've written.
Still a long way to go though.......lot's of spots I'm unsure of still. Like the hand below.
1. Am I OK calling in the sb? Should I be raising or just folding?
2. How is the rest of the hand? Should I be check/folding on the turn?
Is this hand just ul or do I need the nuts to be calling??
Unless you have good notes on BB, that he will fold a lot - then raise to steal.
Sometimes you just have to give the BB a walk.
At least you still had 12 BB's left which is plenty.
Or just let them get on with it against the shorty?