In Response to Re: What should I do now? : Really Stu? I always admire your discipline at DYM (I try to curb my reckless side, doesn't always work :-)), but surely folding here is too tight. Posted by HENDRIK62
Folding is deffo not tight its smart especially at a 2.25 dym.
If we shove in my experience u will get someone calling with a mid pair then we are flipping/slight underdog. Calling is bad. Remember we only have Ace high we shove and get a gambler to call with any2 our odds still not great. We have only invested 20 chips.
Turbo dym auto reshove or a 6max
Also by folding we are near GTD to be in 2nd place straight away.
Amazed people are advocating folding a double nut maker pre flop in a multi way pot. I also don't believe anyone actually folds in game. Posted by hhyftrftdr
I thought jimi was the only non believer around here?
I think you should believe the players who have winning records at high volumes of 3.30 dyms when they say fold here. And I mean the likes of stu and rlt and not me although I happen to agree.
In Response to Re: What should I do now? : I thought jimi was the only non believer around here? I think you should believe the players who have winning records at high volumes of 3.30 dyms when they say fold here. And I mean the likes of stu and rlt and not me although I happen to agree. Posted by Phantom66
In Response to Re: What should I do now? : Folding is deffo not tight its smart especially at a 2.25 dym. If we shove in my experience u will get someone calling with a mid pair then we are flipping/slight underdog. Calling is bad. Remember we only have Ace high we shove and get a gambler to call with any2 our odds still not great. We have only invested 20 chips. Turbo dym auto reshove or a 6max Also by folding we are near GTD to be in 2nd place straight away. Posted by stuarty117
Absolutely agree, shoving here is not my preferred option, calling is poor, I think I can happily squeeze to 500 chips here and even if we don't thin the field, we will have a good idea where we are post flop, assuming sb doesn't lead we check to UTG (who will probably have come along) and when he bets into our flopped nut flush we come over the top :-)
Did I say I was an optimist :-)
In the unlikely event that I do not flop the flush I can fold and happily carry on with 1500 chips.
I think this is the easiest flat here in the world. Shoving is way too risky at this level when you'll get so many good chances later on. Folding just seems crazy too. The fact they're suited just seals the call. I'd probably flat all suited aces and small pairs here too with the huge implied odds.
Flop's easy enough played and we can just play it pretty cautiously given how much edge we believe we have on the field.
If we flat with the right board we can win the game in this hand. if we fold we dont have that chance and if we shove yes we can win it but we can also very easily lose it.
So early on I'm folding. AK is only ace high and you are a slight dog to 2-2. I'm not flipping early on in level 1 and especially against a soft table in low stakes.
The others sat there have got to be good enough to understand the shove and on a soft table you are likely to pick up at least two callers who are taking a "punt".
You can't win a DYM in level one but you sure as **** can loose it.
In Response to Re: What should I do now? : Absolutely agree, shoving here is not my preferred option, calling is poor, I think I can happily squeeze to 500 chips here and even if we don't thin the field, we will have a good idea where we are post flop, assuming sb doesn't lead we check to UTG (who will probably have come along) and when he bets into our flopped nut flush we come over the top :-) Did I say I was an optimist :-) In the unlikely event that I do not flop the flush I can fold and happily carry on with 1500 chips. Posted by HENDRIK62
This can put you under pressure by going this low in level one and you could start making loose calls starting to chase hands. Even if we flop a A or a K they may have AA or KK anyway.
As tikay says its a weak table so just fold you will cash alot more times than not.
Even if we double our chip stack here we are not assured of cashing, yes it helps alot. Cant win it in level one but can lose it.
If it was a timed mtt that lasts 5mins woohoo go for it
I think you can tell it's the very good MTT/6 max players saying this is a jam and the good DYM players saying it's not. DYMS are about equity and on £2 DYMs I reckon your shove is getting called more often than not by garbage, probably you are 60/40 or 50/50 way too often and your equity doesn't increase by that much. You simply don't need to take the chance especially on the low stakes most of the recreational players will knock themselves out early going to war with marginal hands and you are often on the bubble by levels four or five.
Had this been on a better table at say £5s or £11s a shove may work because people have a bit better hand selection and grasp of equity but at the micro stakes it's a long term losing play in my view.
In Response to Re: What should I do now? : The reveal is actually irrelevant. We can make a bad play & win, or a correct play & lose. I will reveal how it played out, but if I say what happened it affects how people reply. And as you can see, there have been some very different views on what is the correct play. The experienced winning NLH players won't learn much - if anything - from this thread - but I bet many others do, me included. Posted by Tikay10
If we assume we win 65% of the time against this field at the start, if we call and then fold flop playing with 1900 stack I'd still put that win percentage at 60%+. If we play and win this hand, especially if we double, that our win percentage will go to 85%+. I'm calling.
Then there's the whole side issue of it's fun to be in this hand ��
In isolation, the shove with AK may not be plus ev. however, the fact that I do shove with AK there means I get a lot more callers with my AA/KKs. That needs to be factored in
Have to say I fear Tommy a lot more in DYMs than the "reg" DYMers
In isolation, the shove with AK may not be plus ev. however, the fact that I do shove with AK there means I get a lot more callers with my AA/KKs. That needs to be factored in Have to say I fear Tommy a lot more in DYMs than the "reg" DYMers Posted by Essexphil
Do you really think that we need to be balanced with our actions in £2.25 Dym?
I woukd seriously doubt that the players woukd be aware enough to notice this.
In Response to Re: What should I do now? : Interesting In all honesty do you think that the players in this £2.25 dym would be thinking along these lines Phil? Posted by Jac35
Only the better ones.
The problem with the ultra cautious approach of some is that they appear to want to play with their cards effectively face up. That will make money up to (poss0 £5.50 DYMs. Then people get left with a really exploitable style at higher levels....
Comments
The others sat there have got to be good enough to understand the shove and on a soft table you are likely to pick up at least two callers who are taking a "punt".
You can't win a DYM in level one but you sure as **** can loose it.
1. Shove; and
2. Think carefully and shove
Anyone who folds there who makes money, could be making more money....
The reveal is actually irrelevant. We can make a bad play & win, or a correct play & lose.
I will reveal how it played out, but if I say what happened it affects how people reply.
And as you can see, there have been some very different views on what is the correct play.
The experienced winning NLH players won't learn much - if anything - from this thread - but I bet many others do, me included.
Have to say I fear Tommy a lot more in DYMs than the "reg" DYMers
The problem with the ultra cautious approach of some is that they appear to want to play with their cards effectively face up. That will make money up to (poss0 £5.50 DYMs. Then people get left with a really exploitable style at higher levels....