Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category
By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category
By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it .
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category
By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it .
You’re wrong
If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .
If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
You are just certain that my opinion is wrong without having a single opinion of your own. Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option. Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most. You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions. You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit? Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal? What is the deal? What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement? What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament? What about The Backstop? Chances of a 2nd referendum? General Election? PM getting sacked? What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category
By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it .
You’re wrong
If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .
If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .
Get help.
People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right . I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here . I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
That seems about right.
Although if having voted to remain, and putting forward opinions that support the remain side of the argument, makes me opinionated, I suppose I have to accept it.
My view is that the economical damage will hurt, and that any political advantages gained from leaving, will not benefit most people in any tangible way.
However I am prepared to debate this in a reasonable manner.
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
You are just certain that my opinion is wrong without having a single opinion of your own. Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option. Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most. You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions. You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit? Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal? What is the deal? What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement? What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament? What about The Backstop? Chances of a 2nd referendum? General Election? PM getting sacked? What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
Not certain you are wrong about everything at all , what I am certain of is, as mentioned a million times , you are too arrogant to accept anyone who has a different opinion to yours , might have valid points .
You don't have to have verbal diahorrea to make a point !
My gang ? Are you regressing to childhood ? seriously grow up you silly old man .
I'm not here to answer to you or anyone .
Lets hope this is true , you can then move onto your next obsession , with your trusty sidekick in tow .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
34 million did.
And 28% didn't ! So your point is ?
The vast majority did. Are you suggesting that the minority was correct. If so maybe remain really won the referendum, as they were in the minority.
Your argument presumes everyone has the ability of hindsight.
Everyone was expected to vote in the referendum using the knowledge that they had at the time.
The reason that there is an outcry from some quarters now, is because anyone that has paid attention to what has happened since, has a much greater knowledge now.
Far more people voted than is usual for a General Election. Over 2.5 million more than the 2015 General Election.
Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13. You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam. Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13. You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam. Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Mind numbingly stupid example . It was the responsibilty of politicians to present realistic scenarios and accurately represent consequences to the country pre vote . They failed to do that . If you are saying that wasn't possible , then the referendum should never have been offered up.
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
You are just certain that my opinion is wrong without having a single opinion of your own. Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option. Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most. You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions. You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit? Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal? What is the deal? What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement? What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament? What about The Backstop? Chances of a 2nd referendum? General Election? PM getting sacked? What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
Not certain you are wrong about everything at all , what I am certain of is, as mentioned a million times , you are too arrogant to accept anyone who has a different opinion to yours , might have valid points .
You don't have to have verbal diahorrea to make a point !
My gang ? Are you regressing to childhood ? seriously grow up you silly old man .
I'm not here to answer to you or anyone .
Lets hope this is true , you can then move onto your next obsession , with your trusty sidekick in tow .
That childish comment has already been addressed.
Highlight, and type a sentence. I am off to play poker now. Gives you plenty of time to answer any questions you are capable of answering. Debate is about questions, answers, opinions, and viewpoints. If you ask me any question about Brexit, I will give you my view or opinion. That's not to say it is right, or that you will agree with it. You on the other hand seem unable to answer any questions, or state your opinion. I don't claim to be a Brexit expert, but have taken an interest, and gained some knowledge.
Comments
But you would have people vote , regardless !
But you would have people vote , regardless !
34 million did.
34 million did.
you are saying that the majority were wrong.
By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
About what in particular ?
34 million did.
And 28% didn't ! So your point is ?
If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .
If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .
Get help.
Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option.
Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most.
You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions.
You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit?
Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal?
What is the deal?
What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement?
What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament?
What about The Backstop?
Chances of a 2nd referendum?
General Election?
PM getting sacked?
What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
My view is that the economical damage will hurt, and that any political advantages gained from leaving, will not benefit most people in any tangible way.
However I am prepared to debate this in a reasonable manner.
You don't have to have verbal diahorrea to make a point !
My gang ? Are you regressing to childhood ? seriously grow up you silly old man .
I'm not here to answer to you or anyone .
Lets hope this is true , you can then move onto your next obsession , with your trusty sidekick in tow .
That childish comment has already been addressed.
And 28% didn't ! So your point is ?
The vast majority did. Are you suggesting that the minority was correct. If so maybe remain really won the referendum, as they were in the minority.
Your argument presumes everyone has the ability of hindsight.
Everyone was expected to vote in the referendum using the knowledge that they had at the time.
The reason that there is an outcry from some quarters now, is because anyone that has paid attention to what has happened since, has a much greater knowledge now.
Far more people voted than is usual for a General Election. Over 2.5 million more than the 2015 General Election.
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13.
You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam.
Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam.
Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Mind numbingly stupid example . It was the responsibilty of politicians to present realistic scenarios and accurately represent consequences to the country pre vote . They failed to do that . If you are saying that wasn't possible , then the referendum should never have been offered up.
I am off to play poker now.
Gives you plenty of time to answer any questions you are capable of answering.
Debate is about questions, answers, opinions, and viewpoints.
If you ask me any question about Brexit, I will give you my view or opinion. That's not to say it is right, or that you will agree with it.
You on the other hand seem unable to answer any questions, or state your opinion.
I don't claim to be a Brexit expert, but have taken an interest, and gained some knowledge.