Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13. You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam. Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Mind numbingly stupid example . It was the responsibilty of politicians to present realistic scenarios and accurately represent consequences to the country pre vote . They failed to do that . If you are saying that wasn't possible , then the referendum should never have been offered up.
Which is what I said in the first place, but once it was everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13. You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam. Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Mind numbingly stupid example . It was the responsibilty of politicians to present realistic scenarios and accurately represent consequences to the country pre vote . They failed to do that . If you are saying that wasn't possible , then the referendum should never have been offered up.
Which is what I said in the first place, but once it was everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Totally disagree ...it would be and is irresponsible to vote uninformed about the consequences .
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
I think this is a thread on Brexit, but if phil is haysie, i have no respect for anyone who says Parents of Child Rape victims, should feel partly responsible.
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
I think this is a thread on Brexit, but if phil is haysie, i have no respect for anyone who says Parents of Child Rape victims, should feel partly responsible.
The bitter and twisted one is correct, I was referring to essexphil.
Par for the course that Rainman types about this being a thread about Brexit, yet “sticks up” for what he considers his friend when they post a link to an online sales outlet ( forgive my lack of knowledge on correct terminology)
The bitter and twisted one is correct, I was referring to essexphil.
Par for the course that Rainman types about this being a thread about Brexit, yet “sticks up” for what he considers his friend when they post a link to an online sales outlet ( forgive my lack of knowledge on correct terminology)
Birds of a feather and all that..
Very nice of you to give the store a plug , many thanks
Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13. You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam. Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Mind numbingly stupid example . It was the responsibilty of politicians to present realistic scenarios and accurately represent consequences to the country pre vote . They failed to do that . If you are saying that wasn't possible , then the referendum should never have been offered up.
Which is what I said in the first place, but once it was everyone had a responsibility to vote.
If there is anyone on this forum who should know about mind numbingly stupid examples...………………………………………………..
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
You are just certain that my opinion is wrong without having a single opinion of your own. Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option. Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most. You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions. You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit? Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal? What is the deal? What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement? What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament? What about The Backstop? Chances of a 2nd referendum? General Election? PM getting sacked? What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
Not certain you are wrong about everything at all , what I am certain of is, as mentioned a million times , you are too arrogant to accept anyone who has a different opinion to yours , might have valid points .
You don't have to have verbal diahorrea to make a point !
My gang ? Are you regressing to childhood ? seriously grow up you silly old man .
I'm not here to answer to you or anyone .
Lets hope this is true , you can then move onto your next obsession , with your trusty sidekick in tow .
That childish comment has already been addressed.
Highlight, and type a sentence. I am off to play poker now. Gives you plenty of time to answer any questions you are capable of answering. Debate is about questions, answers, opinions, and viewpoints. If you ask me any question about Brexit, I will give you my view or opinion. That's not to say it is right, or that you will agree with it. You on the other hand seem unable to answer any questions, or state your opinion. I don't claim to be a Brexit expert, but have taken an interest, and gained some knowledge.
Have you ever disagreed with any post made by your little gang?
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Isnt that the purpose of a forum. To debate peoples points of view.
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
I can.
In the two years since the referendum, it has become obvious that at the time the public was extremely ill informed about the consequences of leaving.
This evidence was not available, or discussed prior to the referendum.
This additional information did not affect me as I voted to remain. It only really affected leave voters.
How do you think that the 34 million people that voted differed from you?
How many of these 34 million voters would you consider informed?
What percentage of voters do you think are well informed?
Do you think it is a voters responsibility to inform themselves?
Can you vote in General Elections, or do you find yourself unable to assess politicians claims?
If you were Scottish, would you vote in an Independence Referendum, or would you just say "no one knows"?
Don't you think that many people have lots more knowledge regarding staying or leaving now than they could have had prior to the referendum?
What do you think about compulsory voting?
Do you think it has affected Australia in an adverse way?
If you lived in Australia, would you be happy to be paying the fines for being ill informed or just vote?
Or would you take responsibility, become informed and save the money?
Do you think that many difficulties surrounding leaving the EU have come to light since the referendum?
Full of questions , but don't want to answer any !
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
Who said I agree with any of it ..it is merely another viewpoint from someone else to give this thread balance . What do you not understand about that ?
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
You are just certain that my opinion is wrong without having a single opinion of your own. Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option. Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most. You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions. You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit? Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal? What is the deal? What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement? What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament? What about The Backstop? Chances of a 2nd referendum? General Election? PM getting sacked? What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
Not certain you are wrong about everything at all , what I am certain of is, as mentioned a million times , you are too arrogant to accept anyone who has a different opinion to yours , might have valid points .
You don't have to have verbal diahorrea to make a point !
My gang ? Are you regressing to childhood ? seriously grow up you silly old man .
I'm not here to answer to you or anyone .
Lets hope this is true , you can then move onto your next obsession , with your trusty sidekick in tow .
That childish comment has already been addressed.
Highlight, and type a sentence. I am off to play poker now. Gives you plenty of time to answer any questions you are capable of answering. Debate is about questions, answers, opinions, and viewpoints. If you ask me any question about Brexit, I will give you my view or opinion. That's not to say it is right, or that you will agree with it. You on the other hand seem unable to answer any questions, or state your opinion. I don't claim to be a Brexit expert, but have taken an interest, and gained some knowledge.
Have you ever disagreed with any post made by your little gang?
You are starting to repeat yourself and sounding more and more childish .
In 1 corner, Haysie, steadfastly giving his opinions. Like them, loathe them, you know what they are. The Forum's Teresa May.
In the other, Dobiesdraw, who has better things to do than give her own opinions, doesn't appear to be sure, but is sure that Haysie is wrong. Our forum has its very own Jeremy Corbyn....
Funny , how you say I am opinionated , but in the next sentence say I don't give my own opinion ...lets have a think how that one works About what in particular ?
You are just certain that my opinion is wrong without having a single opinion of your own. Your posts all have the same format. You highlight what someone else has said, disagree, not explain the reason why you disagree, ever suggest an alternative or put forward a better option. Every one of your posts amounts to one sentence or two at the most. You think you are having a debate, yet you seem to be unable to answer the simplest of questions. You seem to take pleasure in the silly comments provided by your little gang.
Tell me something about Brexit? Give me your own opinion of the Brexit deal? What is the deal? What do you think about The Withdrawal Agreement? What do you think will happen if it gets voted down in Parliament? What about The Backstop? Chances of a 2nd referendum? General Election? PM getting sacked? What do you think about Labours 6 tests?
It seems to be that "no one knows" sums up your opinion on Brexit?
I cant be bothered to type any more, you are unable to answer any questions. You can just highlight, and come up with the odd sentence.
Its not just me you disagree with 100% of the time, it is everybody that is not a member of your silly little gang.
Not certain you are wrong about everything at all , what I am certain of is, as mentioned a million times , you are too arrogant to accept anyone who has a different opinion to yours , might have valid points .
You don't have to have verbal diahorrea to make a point !
My gang ? Are you regressing to childhood ? seriously grow up you silly old man .
I'm not here to answer to you or anyone .
Lets hope this is true , you can then move onto your next obsession , with your trusty sidekick in tow .
That childish comment has already been addressed.
Highlight, and type a sentence. I am off to play poker now. Gives you plenty of time to answer any questions you are capable of answering. Debate is about questions, answers, opinions, and viewpoints. If you ask me any question about Brexit, I will give you my view or opinion. That's not to say it is right, or that you will agree with it. You on the other hand seem unable to answer any questions, or state your opinion. I don't claim to be a Brexit expert, but have taken an interest, and gained some knowledge.
Have you ever disagreed with any post made by your little gang?
You are starting to repeat yourself and sounding more and more childish .
Comments
Which is what I said in the first place, but once it was everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Totally disagree ...it would be and is irresponsible to vote uninformed about the consequences .
Par for the course that Rainman types about this being a thread about Brexit, yet “sticks up” for what he considers his friend when they post a link to an online sales outlet ( forgive my lack of knowledge on correct terminology)
Birds of a feather and all that..
Totally disagree ...it would be and is irresponsible to vote uninformed about the consequences .
So do you think that the 34 million people that voted, informed themselves, attended Brexit classes, or were just cleverer than you.
If there is anyone on this forum who should know about mind numbingly stupid examples...………………………………………………..
you cant.
Another stupid comment . Why would you make the assumption that all of the 34 million who voted were necessarily informed ?
I am not. The point I am making is that 34 million people took their voting responsibility seriously.