I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
Who said I agree with any of it ..it is merely another viewpoint from someone else to give this thread balance . What do you not understand about that ?
Why do you think that posting views that you clearly have no opinion of, and don't understand furthers this debate in any way.
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
What do you think of point one?
What do you think ?
I think it is a biased view that does not present a number of his arguments fairly.
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
Who said I agree with any of it ..it is merely another viewpoint from someone else to give this thread balance . What do you not understand about that ?
Why do you think that posting views that you clearly have no opinion of, and don't understand furthers this debate in any way.
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
What do you think of point one?
What do you think ?
I think it is a biased view that does not present a number of his arguments fairly.
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
Not the case at all , you didn't have to be a rocket scientist pre brexit vote , to realise that if you voted leave , then you couldn't be sure what the exact deal was going to be , as if you voted remain , what the potential benefits to the country might be long term .
With all due respect I think remain voters were those that saw the benefits that EU membership gave us, liked the status quo, and didn't want change.
Where many leave voters did so on the basis of taking back control of our money, borders, and laws, reducing immigration, sovereignty, fishing rights etc etc
I cant remember much talk of what would happen after we left, although there were claims that have turned out to be untrue. Although at the time they were made it was difficult to tell.
And it could also be levelled at Remain voters that they were/are unwilling to explore any advantages down the line of leaving .
And therein lies one of the main issues , why it was difficult to cast an informed vote .
What I have said is true. At the time of the referendum people were asked to make a binary choice. There was little talk of what the subsequent relationship might be. For instance I cant remember any mention of the Irish border, which has proved to be such a problem. Nobody was asking what would happen to the Irish border if we left The Single Market, and TH Customs Union.
So if you said I didn't vote because I wasn't sure what would happen with the Irish border, I don't think this would be a valid claim.
Similarly I don't think it is valid to cite the problems that have come to light since the referendum either.
Around 34 million people managed it, many of whom knew nothing about The Single Market, The Customs Union, the Irish border, and didn't have a clue about what our trading relationship with the EU might be like.
Once again , I didn't say that. Whether you think my points are valid or not is a total irrelevance to me . The few readers who read this will already have a very good snapshot of your mindset .
Advocating uninformed voting ..genius again . You are also in favour of a 2nd referendum , presumably that would be on the basis that people voted without really knowing the consequences or likely deal ...You can't have it both ways , you cant suggest we should make everyone vote ( uninformed or not ) , but if we don't like the result , we will make them vote again .
How could anyone have had a really informed view of the deal we were likely to get, when 30 months later we still haven't got a clue?
But you would have people vote , regardless !
That's a bit like refusing to do your 11plus, until you are 13. You know what you know when you are 11 and have to do the exam. Even though everyone knows more when they are 13.
Mind numbingly stupid example . It was the responsibilty of politicians to present realistic scenarios and accurately represent consequences to the country pre vote . They failed to do that . If you are saying that wasn't possible , then the referendum should never have been offered up.
Which is what I said in the first place, but once it was everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Do you not think that people are more educated when they are 13 than they were when they were 11?
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
I think this is a thread on Brexit, but if phil is haysie, i have no respect for anyone who says Parents of Child Rape victims, should feel partly responsible.
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
I think this is a thread on Brexit, but if phil is haysie, i have no respect for anyone who says Parents of Child Rape victims, should feel partly responsible.
I'm sure Haysie will be along shortly to point out why he's wrong about all of it
Why don't you point out the things that you agree with, Mr Masterclass, that is such a superb debater, that he finds it impossible to answer any simple question.
Who said I agree with any of it ..it is merely another viewpoint from someone else to give this thread balance . What do you not understand about that ?
Why do you think that posting views that you clearly have no opinion of, and don't understand furthers this debate in any way.
Do you sell spam on your site ? I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.
I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.
Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir.
Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad.
I think this is a thread on Brexit, but if phil is haysie, i have no respect for anyone who says Parents of Child Rape victims, should feel partly responsible.
How could Phil be me?
Fair point , not even sure you know who you are .
It was just another silly post that made no sense.
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
I think you are just trying to justify your own position. I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic. When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
I think it fairly obvious that the majority of the 34 million people that voted, did so in good faith, according to their views, and taking into account the information that was available at the time. Did any of your gang vote, or were they equally unimformed?
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
I think you are just trying to justify your own position. I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic. When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
I think you are just trying to justify your own position. I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic. When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
Umm well obviously , just as you are with your views, however that doesn't make the point any less valid . Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ? " when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
I think you are just trying to justify your own position. I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic. When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
Umm well obviously , just as you are with your views, however that doesn't make the point any less valid . Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ?
Do you think they do then?
" when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .
The points you made to justify you actions weren't reasonable in my view, but I cant be bothered with this any more.
Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
I think you are just trying to justify your own position. I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic. When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
Umm well obviously , just as you are with your views, however that doesn't make the point any less valid . Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ?
Do you think they do then?
" when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .
The points you made to justify you actions weren't reasonable in my view, but I cant be bothered with this any more.
Comments
If you believe that, why have a 2nd vote.
Do you now feel confident that you would vote if there was a second referendum?
What do you think made them more equipped to vote than you?
I am not sure why you think these two things are at all related.
everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .
I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .
Do you not think that people are more educated when they are 13 than they were when they were 11?
I am keeping up my side of it.
I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic.
When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
Did any of your gang vote, or were they equally unimformed?
Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ?
" when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .
The points you made to justify you actions weren't reasonable in my view, but I cant be bothered with this any more.
You stick with your justification.