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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575
    goldon said:

    From the Grinch that stole Brexit



    You seem to like pictures. What about the rest of the gang?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    Do you sell spam on your site ?
    I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.

    I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.

    :D Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir. :D:D
    Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category

    By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.

    Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad
    .
    You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it . :D
    You’re wrong

    If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .

    If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .

    Get help.

    People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right .
    I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
    I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
    Are you suggesting Rainman should stick to the TR thread with his views on the above?

    If the car developed a fault with the brakes and steering , do you still blame the driver , or the manufacturer?
    So you agree with haysie, that the Parents of Child rape victims are partly to blame.
    Personally i blame the rapists 100% , good to know that is your opinion.
    You seem to be ok on voting, but not so good on reading.
    Some of the victims of the evil people involved in these cases, were as young as 11. They were drinking, taking drugs, sometimes out until all hours, and having sex with a large number of men.
    If you were a parent of one of these unfortunate children, how would you rate your parenting skills?
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    The noise you can't hear
    HAYSIE said:

    goldon said:

    From the Grinch that stole Brexit



    You seem to like pictures. What about the rest of the gang?
    Yep love them >>


  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575
    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    Do you sell spam on your site ?
    I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.

    I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.

    :D Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir. :D:D
    Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category

    By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.

    Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad
    .
    You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it . :D
    You’re wrong

    If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .

    If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .

    Get help.

    People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right .
    I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
    I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
    Are you suggesting Rainman should stick to the TR thread with his views on the above?

    If the car developed a fault with the brakes and steering , do you still blame the driver , or the manufacturer?
    Anyone that could relate these horrific crimes against young children, with car problems, is extremely foolish.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    And as seen as even non existent dogs seem to be fair game on here

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46398057

    You seemed to know what made the nonexistent dog happy.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Interesting referendum results by region :

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/electorate-and-count-information

    I understand that Haysie would rather talk about his long suffering dog and gangs .

    I have informed the RSPCA.
    How is the masterclass going?
    Talking and responding to yourself ?
    Is that the best you have got?
    I actually think its very telling and amusing watching you implode .
    Imploding, I don't think so.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Interesting referendum results by region :

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/electorate-and-count-information

    I understand that Haysie would rather talk about his long suffering dog and gangs .

    I have informed the RSPCA.
    How is the masterclass going?
    Talking and responding to yourself ?
    No clearly a question for your mate.
    Try to keep up, I clearly asked your mate how he thought the masterclass was going.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    Do you sell spam on your site ?
    I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.

    I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.

    :D Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir. :D:D
    Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category

    By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.

    Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad
    .
    You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it . :D
    You’re wrong

    If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .

    If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .

    Get help.

    People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right .
    I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
    I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
    Are you suggesting Rainman should stick to the TR thread with his views on the above?

    If the car developed a fault with the brakes and steering , do you still blame the driver , or the manufacturer?
    Anyone that could relate these horrific crimes against young children, with car problems, is extremely foolish.
    All of a sudden you care about the victims ..I thought you were too busy trying to blame the parents
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that
    everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .

    I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .

    I think you are just trying to justify your own position.
    I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic.
    When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
    Umm well obviously , just as you are with your views, however that doesn't make the point any less valid .
    Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ?


    Do you think they do then?


    " when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .

    The points you made to justify you actions weren't reasonable in my view, but I cant be bothered with this any more.

    You stick with your justification.

    Your view is about as important to me ,as who's going to win a tv reality show
    At least I have got a view.
    Just because one doesn't express a view doesn't mean they haven't got one !
    Prove you have then.
    Actually think you have lost the plot . Your posts and comments are getting more childish by the minute . No need for me to prove anything to anyone .
    I have just dropped to your level.
    I think people will make up their own mind who is posting childish comments . Thought this ego trip of a thread of yours was meant to be about Brexit ?
    Not since you and your gang got involved.
    Understandable, you wouldn't want any conflicting opinions on this thread ;) Note , no denial the main purpose was to stroke your fragile ego .
    You and your gang don't have opinions.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that
    everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .

    I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .

    I think you are just trying to justify your own position.
    I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic.
    When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
    Umm well obviously , just as you are with your views, however that doesn't make the point any less valid .
    Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ?


    Do you think they do then?


    " when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .

    The points you made to justify you actions weren't reasonable in my view, but I cant be bothered with this any more.

    You stick with your justification.

    Your view is about as important to me ,as who's going to win a tv reality show
    At least I have got a view.
    Just because one doesn't express a view doesn't mean they haven't got one !
    Prove you have then.
    Actually think you have lost the plot . Your posts and comments are getting more childish by the minute . No need for me to prove anything to anyone .
    I have just dropped to your level.
    I think people will make up their own mind who is posting childish comments . Thought this ego trip of a thread of yours was meant to be about Brexit ?
    Not since you and your gang got involved.
    Understandable, you wouldn't want any conflicting opinions on this thread ;) Note , no denial the main purpose was to stroke your fragile ego .
    You and your gang don't have opinions.
    I've just stated an opinion
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    HAYSIE said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    Do you sell spam on your site ?
    I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.

    I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.

    :D Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir. :D:D
    Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category

    By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.

    Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad
    .
    You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it . :D
    You’re wrong

    If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .

    If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .

    Get help.

    People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right .
    I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
    I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
    Are you suggesting Rainman should stick to the TR thread with his views on the above?

    If the car developed a fault with the brakes and steering , do you still blame the driver , or the manufacturer?
    Anyone that could relate these horrific crimes against young children, with car problems, is extremely foolish.
    All of a sudden you care about the victims ..I thought you were too busy trying to blame the parents

    That is an absolutely pathetic comment, but expected from you.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    Do you sell spam on your site ?
    I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.

    I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.

    :D Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir. :D:D
    Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category

    By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.

    Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad
    .
    You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it . :D
    You’re wrong

    If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .

    If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .

    Get help.

    People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right .
    I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
    I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
    Are you suggesting Rainman should stick to the TR thread with his views on the above?

    If the car developed a fault with the brakes and steering , do you still blame the driver , or the manufacturer?
    Anyone that could relate these horrific crimes against young children, with car problems, is extremely foolish.
    All of a sudden you care about the victims ..I thought you were too busy trying to blame the parents

    That is an absolutely pathetic comment, but expected from you.
    Pleased to have met your expectations ..the truth is always a hard one to swallow !
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793

    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .
    ^^^ This is the reality of the situation , post as many links to support your remain views and if anyone else on the other side was really interested , they could also do the same and both sides could argue who was right and wrong till the cows come home ...but the above is what it actually boils down to !
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575
    edited December 2018

    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .

    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .
    Firstly The Tories are The Government.
    The PM, Chancellor, The ERG, and the Tory MPs are all members of The Tory Party.

    The Governor of The Bank of England is independent, as were two of the reports referred to.

    The major point is that the position recommended varies from a catastrophe, to the best option.

    How could you explain this?
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .

    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .
    Firstly The Tories are The Government.
    The PM, Chancellor, The ERG, and the Tory MPs are all members of The Tory Party.

    The Governor of The Bank of England is independent, as were two of the reports referred to.

    The major point is that the position recommended varies from a catastrophe, to the best option.

    How could you explain this?
    What position recommended ? what the **** are you prattling on about now ? You on the sherry already ?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    HAYSIE said:

    A quote from this article : " I should clarify that I was always more than happy to accept the many major flaws of EU membership and of the EU itself. However, in June 2016 for me the alternative was confusion and uncertainty. It was a case of ‘better the devil you know’. I was always very clear that we as a country are big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves, but I just felt that the Leave campaign (and the Remain one too!) failed to articulate clear arguments in a way that would inspire me. There was no story about where we would go from here, and on both sides it seemed like lots of soundbites, shouting and slogans, with much less reasoned argument."

    https://brexitcentral.com/journey-reluctant-remainer-confident-brexiteer/

    I don't think it is any more straightforward that it was during the time of the referendum, although there are different disputed aspects, and some people are more aware of some of the implications.
    The Treasury has just produced a trade analysis, showing economic damage to the economy. Two other respected sources have produced the same reports showing very similar results.

    They all show that every Brexit option causes damage to the economy, and point to the fact that some options are less damaging than others.

    Yet Jacob Rees-Mogg and The ERG group which consists of around 80 Tory MPs, say they are untrue and a continuation of Project Fear.

    If you took one aspect, like a no deal Brexit.

    The Chancellor has admitted it would be a disaster.

    The PM has stopped saying no deal is better than a bad deal.

    The Governer of The Bank of England, has said it would be catastrophic and as bad as the 2008 crash.

    Yet The ERG maintain that it would be fine.

    A small number of Tory MPs maintain that no deal would be the best outcome.

    The analysis shows our economy being worse off by 9.3%.

    Well they cant all be telling the truth.

    There is a huge difference between the best outcome, and a disaster. There are many other disputed areas, and little seems to have changed.
    So hang on a minute , let me cut to the chase here ..we don't have to use a million words . "experts" on the remain side say one thing , " experts" on the leave side say another . And both believe they are right , but can't definitively prove it . The same was true pre vote . That's it in a nutshell , anyone from either side believes they are right about any particular outcome are deluded .
    ^^^ This is the reality of the situation , post as many links to support your remain views and if anyone else on the other side was really interested , they could also do the same and both sides could argue who was right and wrong till the cows come home ...but the above is what it actually boils down to !
    Really?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    tomgoodun said:

    Do you sell spam on your site ?
    I used to enjoy spam sandwiches, but I find it too expensive these days.

    I didn’t think these links were allowed here, may be wrong, best to ask the people who are busy in Manchester at present.

    :D Typical lefty, Dobie, is giving you a masterclass, so you resort to i am telling sir. :D:D
    Define “Leftie” and how you put me in that category

    By “Telling sir” I’m guessing ( In your small minded world) you mean report it ? I haven’t , I will refrain from calling you a liar , as the bending of the truth is your modus operandi which everyone is accustomed to.

    Same as Phil tried, and was shot down I was merely trying to help, and it has been twisted around which is sad
    .
    You weren't trying to be helpful , just snidey as usual and got called out accurately for it . :D
    You’re wrong

    If someone tries to help you accross the road, they aren’t trying to nick your purse .

    If they point to the other side of the road, they aren’t a member of Isis .

    Get help.

    People are more than capable of seeing straight through your stuff , however you might want to try and dress up the words , Rainman called it right .
    I suggest if you have anything to say about Isis you should contribute to the TR thread instead of slyly trying to introduce it on here .
    I don't need any help , I don't have any problems controlling my emotions on a forum .
    Are you suggesting Rainman should stick to the TR thread with his views on the above?

    If the car developed a fault with the brakes and steering , do you still blame the driver , or the manufacturer?
    Anyone that could relate these horrific crimes against young children, with car problems, is extremely foolish.
    All of a sudden you care about the victims ..I thought you were too busy trying to blame the parents

    That is an absolutely pathetic comment, but expected from you.
    Pleased to have met your expectations ..the truth is always a hard one to swallow !
    What on earth could you possibly know about the truth?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,575

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Breaking news : The genius and self proclaimed Brexit expert, Haysie , believes that
    everyone had a responsibility to vote in the referendum , even if you weren't sure exactly what you were voting for . Radical or stupid ? I think most of us know the answer to that .

    I would say it is the politicians responsibility to present the true and accurate facts and all possible scenarios to the voting public .

    I think you are just trying to justify your own position.
    I think your view of politicians is very immature, and unrealistic.
    When do they ever do what you are suggesting?
    Umm well obviously , just as you are with your views, however that doesn't make the point any less valid .
    Immature and unrealistic ? Unrealistic to expect politicians not to lie ,probably , but that says more about the state of politics in this country than it does about peoples expectations.Immature to expect people in a prominent position to tell the truth , really ?


    Do you think they do then?


    " when do they ever do as I'm suggesting ? " .. Obviously not enough , hence the general disenchantment with them and the generally poor turnout in elections and voting . Are you not capable of understanding that a percentage of non voters , will use that as a protest ? And before you ask another dumb question , I dont fit into that category , for reasons I've given you a million times .

    The points you made to justify you actions weren't reasonable in my view, but I cant be bothered with this any more.

    You stick with your justification.

    Your view is about as important to me ,as who's going to win a tv reality show
    At least I have got a view.
    Just because one doesn't express a view doesn't mean they haven't got one !
    Prove you have then.
    Actually think you have lost the plot . Your posts and comments are getting more childish by the minute . No need for me to prove anything to anyone .
    I have just dropped to your level.
    I think people will make up their own mind who is posting childish comments . Thought this ego trip of a thread of yours was meant to be about Brexit ?
    Not since you and your gang got involved.
    Understandable, you wouldn't want any conflicting opinions on this thread ;) Note , no denial the main purpose was to stroke your fragile ego .
    You and your gang don't have opinions.
    I've just stated an opinion
    Did you really?
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