You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
David Cameron should stay in his shed writing his memoirs, he is safer there, and we are also safer while he is in there.
You should watch Brexit The Uncivil War if you haven't seen it, it was a real eye opener.
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
This is,IMO, the "least worst" solution.
The time has gone for any 2nd referendum (more accurately a 3rd) on whether we leave the EU, simply because there is insufficient time left. In addition, while I think that we will never match the French for organised uprisings, there would be a massive rise in the Far Right in its appeal to people who already feel disenfranchised.
The other point I would make is this. I agree that the traditional binary option model does not work in relation to Brexit. However, people are forgetting that one of the biggest binary elections is likely to take place this year, ie for the leadership of the Conservative party, and hence PM.
The leadership contest for the Conservatives works like no other. Every round of votes just removes last place (or people choosing to drop out) until only 2 are left. The last time someone won the first vote and triumphed in subsequent votes (other than May when all withdrew)was Thatcher in 1975. In 1990 1st ballot winner was Thatcher, 1997 Clarke, 2001 Portillo, 2005 Davis. No winner there.
It is likely that more than 3 people will stand, with at least 3 main options. And 1 of those 3 options will be disenfranchised. Not by the 42,000 Momentum members running the Labour Party. By probably less than 100 MPs largely motivated by what they see is best for them (because Conservative party members have no vote, just MPs). And that scares me.
And, purely depending on which 2 are left, we will have our fates decided. And, if the "May" candidate makes the final 2, they win because they capture almost all of the 3rd candidates votes. Which is why Gove looks a good bet to be the next PM.
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
The alternative ..is some of the approximate 72 mps who oppose Mays deal , see sense and change their minds
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
The alternative ..is some of the approximate 72 mps who oppose Mays deal , see sense and change their minds
The experts were saying that if The Meaningful Vote went ahead before Christmas, she was going to lose by over 200 votes. However it is not a vote on any deal. They wont support Backstop. Even if she changed the deal, Parliament wont support a Backstop. This seems unlikely to change. We have not yet started to negotiate The PMs deal yet. We just have a couple of pages laying out the framework of what may be discussed. Unless they pass The Withdrawal Agreement, which includes The Backstop, we don't even get to discuss a deal.
So at this stage her deal is irrelevant.
They don't seem to be changing their minds in sufficient numbers.
We seem to have different ideas about what the word " deal " means. For anyone who is reading this thread and getting more confused than ever about things , as if it wasn't complicated enough , perhaps this article might simplify things >>>>>
As to the above ( if you cant be ar$$ed to read it all ) , the opening part of the article reads ...." The deal struck between Theresa May’s government and the EU needs the formal approval of the UK parliament. But after coming under attack from all sides in the House of Commons, the vote scheduled for December 11 has been postponed until mid-January."
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
The alternative ..is some of the approximate 72 mps who oppose Mays deal , see sense and change their minds
Or that the Labour Party supports it, OR gives a free vote to its MPs....
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
This is,IMO, the "least worst" solution.
The time has gone for any 2nd referendum (more accurately a 3rd) on whether we leave the EU, simply because there is insufficient time left. In addition, while I think that we will never match the French for organised uprisings, there would be a massive rise in the Far Right in its appeal to people who already feel disenfranchised.
The other point I would make is this. I agree that the traditional binary option model does not work in relation to Brexit. However, people are forgetting that one of the biggest binary elections is likely to take place this year, ie for the leadership of the Conservative party, and hence PM.
The leadership contest for the Conservatives works like no other. Every round of votes just removes last place (or people choosing to drop out) until only 2 are left. The last time someone won the first vote and triumphed in subsequent votes (other than May when all withdrew)was Thatcher in 1975. In 1990 1st ballot winner was Thatcher, 1997 Clarke, 2001 Portillo, 2005 Davis. No winner there.
It is likely that more than 3 people will stand, with at least 3 main options. And 1 of those 3 options will be disenfranchised. Not by the 42,000 Momentum members running the Labour Party. By probably less than 100 MPs largely motivated by what they see is best for them (because Conservative party members have no vote, just MPs). And that scares me.
And, purely depending on which 2 are left, we will have our fates decided. And, if the "May" candidate makes the final 2, they win because they capture almost all of the 3rd candidates votes. Which is why Gove looks a good bet to be the next PM.
What do you think will happen on Brexit then?
Not a clue.
It would be good if big business, which traditionally supports the Tories, brought appropriate pressure to bear, so that British business stood a chance going forward...
We seem to have different ideas about what the word " deal " means. For anyone who is reading this thread and getting more confused than ever about things , as if it wasn't complicated enough , perhaps this article might simplify things >>>>>
As to the above ( if you cant be ar$$ed to read it all ) , the opening part of the article reads ...." The deal struck between Theresa May’s government and the EU needs the formal approval of the UK parliament. But after coming under attack from all sides in the House of Commons, the vote scheduled for December 11 has been postponed until mid-January."
Starting from scratch.
We voted to leave.
We invoked Article 50, giving the EU 2 years notice of our intention to leave.
The 2 years runs out at the end of March.
The intention was to agree a future trade deal during this 2 year period.
It was also agreed that we would have a 2 year transition period after leaving, which would allow businesses a further 2 years notice, before there were any rule changes.
The EU and UK agreed a process for negotiations.
We therefore agreed to sign a Withdrawal Agreement before moving on to a trade deal.
The Withdrawal Agreement covered 3 things.
The rights of EU citizens in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU.
How much we owed them.
The Irish Border.
The plan has completely failed as it has taken almost 2 years to negotiate The Withdrawal Agreement alone.
We have not therefore done any trade negotiations.
The problem has been The Irish Border.
As it has not been possible to find a solution to this problem, they have negotiated an insurance policy. This insurance policy is the rules that will come into play if no trade agreement can be reached.
This insurance policy is called The Backstop.
The Backstop forms part of The Withdrawal Agreement.
Parliament was meant to have what was called a Meaningful Vote on the agreed deal, before it could be ratified.
As we have no trade deal yet, Parliament is now voting on The Withdrawal Agreement.
A couple of pages have been put together setting out loosely, the framework for future trade discussions.
The proposal that The PM put forward to the EU has been referred to as The Chequers Deal.
Other deals that have been referred to are Norway, and Canada.
Chequers Norway and Canada, are all types of trade deals.
"No deal" which would mean trading under WTO rules has also been mentioned.
We haven't started discussing a trade deal yet. This is likely to take a number of years.
The MPs are voting against The Government, because they don't like The Backstop.
This is nothing to do with any trade deal, because we haven't got one.
We cant get onto trade until we agree the withdrawal.
The Government then planned to negotiate the trade agreement during The Transition Period.
Many people were calling this a Blind Brexit, as we would be leaving in March without any knowledge of what the future trade deal was.
So we don't have a deal yet.
Parliament don't like The Backstop, and will vote against it.
The other deal options will also require a Backstop, unless membership of The Customs Union is added.
The PM has adamantly ruled out membership of a Customs Union.
The PM is desperately seeking concessions from the EU, which seem unlikely to be forthcoming before Tuesday.
No Backstop means No Withdrawal Agreement, which means no trade deal.
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
The alternative ..is some of the approximate 72 mps who oppose Mays deal , see sense and change their minds
Or that the Labour Party supports it, OR gives a free vote to its MPs....
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
This is,IMO, the "least worst" solution.
The time has gone for any 2nd referendum (more accurately a 3rd) on whether we leave the EU, simply because there is insufficient time left. In addition, while I think that we will never match the French for organised uprisings, there would be a massive rise in the Far Right in its appeal to people who already feel disenfranchised.
The other point I would make is this. I agree that the traditional binary option model does not work in relation to Brexit. However, people are forgetting that one of the biggest binary elections is likely to take place this year, ie for the leadership of the Conservative party, and hence PM.
The leadership contest for the Conservatives works like no other. Every round of votes just removes last place (or people choosing to drop out) until only 2 are left. The last time someone won the first vote and triumphed in subsequent votes (other than May when all withdrew)was Thatcher in 1975. In 1990 1st ballot winner was Thatcher, 1997 Clarke, 2001 Portillo, 2005 Davis. No winner there.
It is likely that more than 3 people will stand, with at least 3 main options. And 1 of those 3 options will be disenfranchised. Not by the 42,000 Momentum members running the Labour Party. By probably less than 100 MPs largely motivated by what they see is best for them (because Conservative party members have no vote, just MPs). And that scares me.
And, purely depending on which 2 are left, we will have our fates decided. And, if the "May" candidate makes the final 2, they win because they capture almost all of the 3rd candidates votes. Which is why Gove looks a good bet to be the next PM.
What do you think will happen on Brexit then?
Not a clue.
It would be good if big business, which traditionally supports the Tories, brought appropriate pressure to bear, so that British business stood a chance going forward...
If she gave in on The Customs Union, and The Single Market, she could get support from Labour, and The Backstop could go in the bin.
She wouldn't do that.
That would mean Freedom of Movement, no trade deals with other countries, and a contribution.
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
The alternative ..is some of the approximate 72 mps who oppose Mays deal , see sense and change their minds
Youre a bit light on the 72 MPs. Those that are currently saying they will vote against are, all Labour MPs, The DUP, SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, the one Green,The ERG which is about 80 Tories, as well as some Tory remainers.
We seem to have different ideas about what the word " deal " means. For anyone who is reading this thread and getting more confused than ever about things , as if it wasn't complicated enough , perhaps this article might simplify things >>>>>
As to the above ( if you cant be ar$$ed to read it all ) , the opening part of the article reads ...." The deal struck between Theresa May’s government and the EU needs the formal approval of the UK parliament. But after coming under attack from all sides in the House of Commons, the vote scheduled for December 11 has been postponed until mid-January."
Starting from scratch.
We voted to leave.
We invoked Article 50, giving the EU 2 years notice of our intention to leave.
The 2 years runs out at the end of March.
The intention was to agree a future trade deal during this 2 year period.
It was also agreed that we would have a 2 year transition period after leaving, which would allow businesses a further 2 years notice, before there were any rule changes.
The EU and UK agreed a process for negotiations.
We therefore agreed to sign a Withdrawal Agreement before moving on to a trade deal.
The Withdrawal Agreement covered 3 things.
The rights of EU citizens in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU.
How much we owed them.
The Irish Border.
The plan has completely failed as it has taken almost 2 years to negotiate The Withdrawal Agreement alone.
We have not therefore done any trade negotiations.
The problem has been The Irish Border.
As it has not been possible to find a solution to this problem, they have negotiated an insurance policy. This insurance policy is the rules that will come into play if no trade agreement can be reached.
This insurance policy is called The Backstop.
The Backstop forms part of The Withdrawal Agreement.
Parliament was meant to have what was called a Meaningful Vote on the agreed deal, before it could be ratified.
As we have no trade deal yet, Parliament is now voting on The Withdrawal Agreement.
A couple of pages have been put together setting out loosely, the framework for future trade discussions.
The proposal that The PM put forward to the EU has been referred to as The Chequers Deal.
Other deals that have been referred to are Norway, and Canada.
Chequers Norway and Canada, are all types of trade deals.
"No deal" which would mean trading under WTO rules has also been mentioned.
We haven't started discussing a trade deal yet. This is likely to take a number of years.
The MPs are voting against The Government, because they don't like The Backstop.
This is nothing to do with any trade deal, because we haven't got one.
We cant get onto trade until we agree the withdrawal.
The Government then planned to negotiate the trade agreement during The Transition Period.
Many people were calling this a Blind Brexit, as we would be leaving in March without any knowledge of what the future trade deal was.
So we don't have a deal yet.
Parliament don't like The Backstop, and will vote against it.
The other deal options will also require a Backstop, unless membership of The Customs Union is added.
The PM has adamantly ruled out membership of a Customs Union.
The PM is desperately seeking concessions from the EU, which seem unlikely to be forthcoming before Tuesday.
No Backstop means No Withdrawal Agreement, which means no trade deal.
The vote is on Tuesday.
We leave in March.
Well done for simplifying it all for everyone ( with an obvious slant as always ) ...rolls eyes
We seem to have different ideas about what the word " deal " means. For anyone who is reading this thread and getting more confused than ever about things , as if it wasn't complicated enough , perhaps this article might simplify things >>>>>
As to the above ( if you cant be ar$$ed to read it all ) , the opening part of the article reads ...." The deal struck between Theresa May’s government and the EU needs the formal approval of the UK parliament. But after coming under attack from all sides in the House of Commons, the vote scheduled for December 11 has been postponed until mid-January."
Starting from scratch.
We voted to leave.
We invoked Article 50, giving the EU 2 years notice of our intention to leave.
The 2 years runs out at the end of March.
The intention was to agree a future trade deal during this 2 year period.
It was also agreed that we would have a 2 year transition period after leaving, which would allow businesses a further 2 years notice, before there were any rule changes.
The EU and UK agreed a process for negotiations.
We therefore agreed to sign a Withdrawal Agreement before moving on to a trade deal.
The Withdrawal Agreement covered 3 things.
The rights of EU citizens in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU.
How much we owed them.
The Irish Border.
The plan has completely failed as it has taken almost 2 years to negotiate The Withdrawal Agreement alone.
We have not therefore done any trade negotiations.
The problem has been The Irish Border.
As it has not been possible to find a solution to this problem, they have negotiated an insurance policy. This insurance policy is the rules that will come into play if no trade agreement can be reached.
This insurance policy is called The Backstop.
The Backstop forms part of The Withdrawal Agreement.
Parliament was meant to have what was called a Meaningful Vote on the agreed deal, before it could be ratified.
As we have no trade deal yet, Parliament is now voting on The Withdrawal Agreement.
A couple of pages have been put together setting out loosely, the framework for future trade discussions.
The proposal that The PM put forward to the EU has been referred to as The Chequers Deal.
Other deals that have been referred to are Norway, and Canada.
Chequers Norway and Canada, are all types of trade deals.
"No deal" which would mean trading under WTO rules has also been mentioned.
We haven't started discussing a trade deal yet. This is likely to take a number of years.
The MPs are voting against The Government, because they don't like The Backstop.
This is nothing to do with any trade deal, because we haven't got one.
We cant get onto trade until we agree the withdrawal.
The Government then planned to negotiate the trade agreement during The Transition Period.
Many people were calling this a Blind Brexit, as we would be leaving in March without any knowledge of what the future trade deal was.
So we don't have a deal yet.
Parliament don't like The Backstop, and will vote against it.
The other deal options will also require a Backstop, unless membership of The Customs Union is added.
The PM has adamantly ruled out membership of a Customs Union.
The PM is desperately seeking concessions from the EU, which seem unlikely to be forthcoming before Tuesday.
No Backstop means No Withdrawal Agreement, which means no trade deal.
The vote is on Tuesday.
We leave in March.
Well done for simplifying it all for everyone ( with an obvious slant as always ) ...rolls eyes
I make no secret of the fact that I do have a preference, but I believe the above is just the facts.
So the possible outcomes are as follows,
1 If nothing else happens we will leave at the end of March with no deal.
2 The PM could get concessions on The Backstop that MPs would support. Although The EU don't seem keen.
3 Find an alternative to The Backstop. This would seem unlikely.
4 A General Election. This solution would also require the new Government to have a completely different approach to negotiations, EU permission to extend Article 50, and reopen the negotiations.
5 Another referendum.
In the case of options 2 and 3 The Government would also have to be able to negotiate a deal that Parliament would support.
The EU have already said that they would extend Article 50 to accommodate another referendum. If the referendum choice was a deal, no deal, or remain, there would be no need for any further negotiations, so it would be all over and done with, which would make many people happy.
Whereas carrying on as we are its going to take years to negotiate a trade deal, and most people are fed up of it.
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
You questioned the validity of the first referendum, due to the electorate being ill informed and the misleading claims that were made.
You could easily argue that if the electorate has not changed their minds in sufficient numbers then we would still leave.
Another referendum would give us a solution, as no further negotiations would be required.
I appreciate that if the result was to Remain, some people would be annoyed. Although many people will be annoyed at the economic results of Leaving.
If we don't have a referendum, avoid no deal, and The Withdrawal Agreement gets through, Brexit is set to run for years to come. Everyone is fed up of it, and wants it over and done with.
Annoyed ? I think that's a gross understatement of the effect it will have on our already fragile society ...if we were to have a 2nd referendum and the result based on accept this deal or remain , was a) accept this deal ...then at the very least millions of our population will be completely disenfranchised with politics as a whole and that will undoubtedly affect future turnouts with local and general elections , if it was b) remain....same scenario but massive civil unrest at unprecedented levels that would probably make the french yellow jackets look like choirboys, and allow the far right extremeist groups to get involved in the ensuing chaos .
What would your solution be?
Crikey ...I cant solve Brexit before I've had my second cup of coffee . Personally , now we are in this mess , I think the politicians have to support Mays deal and make it work ...although it's far from satisfactory . Hardly a solution , I know . Perhaps drag Cameron away from his cosy little existence and force him to sort out the mess he's created
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement. This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
Best price 6/4 2nd fav with skybet ...fill your boots ...I don't think it will ever happen , and politicians won't want it to happen because they know a large section of the population who voted leave and even some who voted remain , will never trust politicians to carry out the will of the public again if it was to happen . Happy to have a charity side bet with you on the issue if you wish ?
I only think its more likely because of the lack of alternatives. Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal. So what is the alternative?
The alternative ..is some of the approximate 72 mps who oppose Mays deal , see sense and change their minds
Or that the Labour Party supports it, OR gives a free vote to its MPs....
Looks like a Labour Vote of No Confidence on Tuesday or Wednesday, assuming the Government lose the vote. So maybe a General Election.
May warns of ‘catastrophic and unforgivable breach of trust’ if UK remains in EU
Writing in the Sunday Express, Mrs May said: “You, the British people, voted to leave. And then, in the 2017 General Election, 80% of you voted for MPs who stood on manifestos to respect that referendum result. You have delivered your instructions. Now it is our turn to deliver for you.
Comments
What Parliament are currently refusing to support is The Backstop bit of The Withdrawal Agreement.
This has nothing to do with a trade deal. It is purely an insurance policy to avoid an Irish Border.
The problem is that this will apply to any future deal, or no deal, providing we are outside The Single Market, and The Customs Union.
The more I think about possible solutions, it seems more likely that we have another referendum.
David Cameron should stay in his shed writing his memoirs, he is safer there, and we are also safer while he is in there.
You should watch Brexit The Uncivil War if you haven't seen it, it was a real eye opener.
Parliament seem determined to rule out no deal.
So what is the alternative?
However it is not a vote on any deal. They wont support Backstop.
Even if she changed the deal, Parliament wont support a Backstop.
This seems unlikely to change.
We have not yet started to negotiate The PMs deal yet. We just have a couple of pages laying out the framework of what may be discussed.
Unless they pass The Withdrawal Agreement, which includes The Backstop, we don't even get to discuss a deal.
So at this stage her deal is irrelevant.
They don't seem to be changing their minds in sufficient numbers.
https://www.euronews.com/2018/12/07/what-is-in-theresa-may-s-brexit-deal-and-why-is-it-so-unpopular
As to the above ( if you cant be ar$$ed to read it all ) , the opening part of the article reads ...." The deal struck between Theresa May’s government and the EU needs the formal approval of the UK parliament. But after coming under attack from all sides in the House of Commons, the vote scheduled for December 11 has been postponed until mid-January."
It would be good if big business, which traditionally supports the Tories, brought appropriate pressure to bear, so that British business stood a chance going forward...
We voted to leave.
We invoked Article 50, giving the EU 2 years notice of our intention to leave.
The 2 years runs out at the end of March.
The intention was to agree a future trade deal during this 2 year period.
It was also agreed that we would have a 2 year transition period after leaving, which would allow businesses a further 2 years notice, before there were any rule changes.
The EU and UK agreed a process for negotiations.
We therefore agreed to sign a Withdrawal Agreement before moving on to a trade deal.
The Withdrawal Agreement covered 3 things.
The rights of EU citizens in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU.
How much we owed them.
The Irish Border.
The plan has completely failed as it has taken almost 2 years to negotiate The Withdrawal Agreement alone.
We have not therefore done any trade negotiations.
The problem has been The Irish Border.
As it has not been possible to find a solution to this problem, they have negotiated an insurance policy. This insurance policy is the rules that will come into play if no trade agreement can be reached.
This insurance policy is called The Backstop.
The Backstop forms part of The Withdrawal Agreement.
Parliament was meant to have what was called a Meaningful Vote on the agreed deal, before it could be ratified.
As we have no trade deal yet, Parliament is now voting on The Withdrawal Agreement.
A couple of pages have been put together setting out loosely, the framework for future trade discussions.
The proposal that The PM put forward to the EU has been referred to as The Chequers Deal.
Other deals that have been referred to are Norway, and Canada.
Chequers Norway and Canada, are all types of trade deals.
"No deal" which would mean trading under WTO rules has also been mentioned.
We haven't started discussing a trade deal yet. This is likely to take a number of years.
The MPs are voting against The Government, because they don't like The Backstop.
This is nothing to do with any trade deal, because we haven't got one.
We cant get onto trade until we agree the withdrawal.
The Government then planned to negotiate the trade agreement during The Transition Period.
Many people were calling this a Blind Brexit, as we would be leaving in March without any knowledge of what the future trade deal was.
So we don't have a deal yet.
Parliament don't like The Backstop, and will vote against it.
The other deal options will also require a Backstop, unless membership of The Customs Union is added.
The PM has adamantly ruled out membership of a Customs Union.
The PM is desperately seeking concessions from the EU, which seem unlikely to be forthcoming before Tuesday.
No Backstop means No Withdrawal Agreement, which means no trade deal.
The vote is on Tuesday.
We leave in March.
Labour can smell a General Election.
She wouldn't do that.
That would mean Freedom of Movement, no trade deals with other countries, and a contribution.
So the possible outcomes are as follows,
1 If nothing else happens we will leave at the end of March with no deal.
2 The PM could get concessions on The Backstop that MPs would support. Although The EU don't seem keen.
3 Find an alternative to The Backstop. This would seem unlikely.
4 A General Election. This solution would also require the new Government to have a completely different approach to negotiations, EU permission to extend Article 50, and reopen the negotiations.
5 Another referendum.
In the case of options 2 and 3 The Government would also have to be able to negotiate a deal that Parliament would support.
The EU have already said that they would extend Article 50 to accommodate another referendum. If the referendum choice was a deal, no deal, or remain, there would be no need for any further negotiations, so it would be all over and done with, which would make many people happy.
Whereas carrying on as we are its going to take years to negotiate a trade deal, and most people are fed up of it.
Writing in the Sunday Express, Mrs May said: “You, the British people, voted to leave. And then, in the 2017 General Election, 80% of you voted for MPs who stood on manifestos to respect that referendum result. You have delivered your instructions. Now it is our turn to deliver for you.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/may-warns-of-‘catastrophic-and-unforgivable-breach-of-trust’-if-uk-remains-in-eu/ar-BBS9KuT?ocid=spartandhp