You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
What are you suggesting he should raise? Is 3x raise not completely standard?
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
What are you suggesting he should raise? Is 3x raise not completely standard?
Surely we want hands like Q 9 calling our 3x raises. I know its a complete pain when they do and then outflop or run down our monsters but forcing hands like this out must be - EV
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
As Matt said, my pre-flop raise of 3x was completely standard. A bigger raise would have really limited my range and while I probably would have taken the pot down there and then, that's not exactly getting maximum value from holding aces. As TheEdge mentioned, surely we want Q9 to be calling?
Do you guys agree with this statement?
"This should have been an easy fold on the turn, right? Getting, what, about 4/1, with an approx 18% chance of hitting".
Okay, so this hand was from a TDYM. Being shoved on like that pre-flop basically suggests the opponent has AA, KK or AK. You're certainly losing to more hands than you're winning against. In a TDYM, due to the fast structure, I'm happy calling here.
However, what if this happened in an MTT with say 10 minute blind levels, I'm curious to know if you would call. Maybe the answer will be different depending on if it's a bounty hunter or not?
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
As Matt said, my pre-flop raise of 3x was completely standard. A bigger raise would have really limited my range and while I probably would have taken the pot down there and then, that's not exactly getting maximum value from holding aces. As TheEdge mentioned, surely we want Q9 to be calling?
Do you guys agree with this statement?
"This should have been an easy fold on the turn, right? Getting, what, about 4/1, with an approx 18% chance of hitting".
Why is the turn an ''easy fold''? We don't know the villain has Qx or the flush, and although those hands can be included in their range there is probably a number of other hands that they can also have that we beat; hands that might be trying to pinch the pot/semi bluffing with a high club draw or made hands betting for protection.
You've checked twice (along with rest of the table) which is giving off weakness/giving up, so I think you're pretty under-repped by the turn. I'm definitely not folding turn and possibly calling river depending on how the board pans out and who the villain is.
As for the QQ hand, generally there won't be many occasions on Sky where folding QQ pre flop with only 30bb will be the right play, and that's regardless of if it's a BH/turbo/FO or whatever. Again I'd caveat that with it can depend on certain circumstances/villain/table dynamic but as a rule of thumb 30bb and QQ is a lovely spot to get it in and often 100bb and QQ is also a lovely spot to get it in.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
What are you suggesting he should raise? Is 3x raise not completely standard?
From this specific position (UTG, fairly deep stacks as early in tournament) I'm raising to about 5x; the last thing I want with aces in this position is multiple callers and while one caller with a q9 type hand is fine, 4 callers with similarly speculative hands means that on most flops you won't have a clue where you are. I don't think you're playing aces optimally if you allow yourself to go to a flop 5-handed with them, with stacks this deep early-ish in a tournament.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
What are you suggesting he should raise? Is 3x raise not completely standard?
From this specific position (UTG, fairly deep stacks as early in tournament) I'm raising to about 5x; the last thing I want with aces in this position is multiple callers and while one caller with a q9 type hand is fine, 4 callers with similarly speculative hands means that on most flops you won't have a clue where you are. I don't think you're playing aces optimally if you allow yourself to go to a flop 5-handed with them, with stacks this deep early-ish in a tournament.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
What are you suggesting he should raise? Is 3x raise not completely standard?
From this specific position (UTG, fairly deep stacks as early in tournament) I'm raising to about 5x; the last thing I want with aces in this position is multiple callers and while one caller with a q9 type hand is fine, 4 callers with similarly speculative hands means that on most flops you won't have a clue where you are. I don't think you're playing aces optimally if you allow yourself to go to a flop 5-handed with them, with stacks this deep early-ish in a tournament.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
What are you suggesting he should raise? Is 3x raise not completely standard?
From this specific position (UTG, fairly deep stacks as early in tournament) I'm raising to about 5x; the last thing I want with aces in this position is multiple callers and while one caller with a q9 type hand is fine, 4 callers with similarly speculative hands means that on most flops you won't have a clue where you are. I don't think you're playing aces optimally if you allow yourself to go to a flop 5-handed with them, with stacks this deep early-ish in a tournament.
How are you playing the following hands utg….
22 JTs AQo 88 JJ AKs
badly...
It is a serious question. If you are say limping 22 and 5x opening aces then you are playing super face up. You are less likely to get 3bet when you 5x but you give players great implied odds when set mining or with suited connectors as while you are charging a price pre flop with the 5x its likely you will pay off post flop.
Okay, so this hand was from a TDYM. Being shoved on like that pre-flop basically suggests the opponent has AA, KK or AK. You're certainly losing to more hands than you're winning against. In a TDYM, due to the fast structure, I'm happy calling here.
However, what if this happened in an MTT with say 10 minute blind levels, I'm curious to know if you would call. Maybe the answer will be different depending on if it's a bounty hunter or not?
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
stanlop
Small blind
15.00
15.00
985.00
coles06688
Big blind
30.00
45.00
970.00
Your hole cards
Q
Q
Candlecat
Fold
terrell08
Fold
cpfc_2010
Raise
90.00
135.00
910.00
peter27
Raise
210.00
345.00
790.00
stanlop
Fold
coles06688
Call
180.00
525.00
790.00
cpfc_2010
All-in
910.00
1435.00
0.00
peter27
All-in
790.00
2225.00
0.00
coles06688
All-in
790.00
3015.00
0.00
coles06688
Show
K
Q
cpfc_2010
Show
A
K
peter27
Show
Q
Q
Flop
4
10
6
Turn
2
River
4
peter27
Win
Two Pairs, Queens and 4s
3015.00
3015.00
Not an expert in TDYM but I wouldn't be making hero folds of QQ to often in MTTs. Maybe its more common place in TDYMs.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
As Matt said, my pre-flop raise of 3x was completely standard. A bigger raise would have really limited my range and while I probably would have taken the pot down there and then, that's not exactly getting maximum value from holding aces. As TheEdge mentioned, surely we want Q9 to be calling?
Do you guys agree with this statement?
"This should have been an easy fold on the turn, right? Getting, what, about 4/1, with an approx 18% chance of hitting".
It is an easy fold if opponent never bluffs or never bets worse for value which cant be the case. I think you have to call turn.
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
As Matt said, my pre-flop raise of 3x was completely standard. A bigger raise would have really limited my range and while I probably would have taken the pot down there and then, that's not exactly getting maximum value from holding aces. As TheEdge mentioned, surely we want Q9 to be calling?
Do you guys agree with this statement?
"This should have been an easy fold on the turn, right? Getting, what, about 4/1, with an approx 18% chance of hitting".
Why is the turn an ''easy fold''? We don't know the villain has Qx or the flush, and although those hands can be included in their range there is probably a number of other hands that they can also have that we beat; hands that might be trying to pinch the pot/semi bluffing with a high club draw or made hands betting for protection.
You've checked twice (along with rest of the table) which is giving off weakness/giving up, so I think you're pretty under-repped by the turn. I'm definitely not folding turn and possibly calling river depending on how the board pans out and who the villain is.
As for the QQ hand, generally there won't be many occasions on Sky where folding QQ pre flop with only 30bb will be the right play, and that's regardless of if it's a BH/turbo/FO or whatever. Again I'd caveat that with it can depend on certain circumstances/villain/table dynamic but as a rule of thumb 30bb and QQ is a lovely spot to get it in and often 100bb and QQ is also a lovely spot to get it in.
Interested and surprised by your analysis. For the first hand; limp pre-flop from the opponent followed by a 1/2 pot bet on the turn into four other players. I'm struggling to think about what he could have had that I'm beating. A flush draw is possible, but I have the ace as a blocker making it less likely. Could be doing it with a king, I don't think most would make that play with a jack or lower? Especially given that he has 50 BB's or so. I felt like probability wise I'm beat in that spot - and I wasn't getting the pot odds to call. That was the logic anyway.
Find your analysis about (almost) never folding QQ intriguing. Hmmm .. something for me to think about I guess!
Not an expert in TDYM but I wouldn't be making hero folds of QQ to often in MTTs. Maybe its more common place in TDYMs.
I do agree (and did call). I guess what threw me a bit is the opposition shoving 30BB's following a 3x raise, then a three bet, then a call. Doesn't that limit him to AA, KK or AK? AQ maybe, JJ or worse seems unlikely in my mind?
You get in trouble here because you only 3 x bb raise utg with AA; you get unlucky on the flop but the pf raise has to be bigger to stop hands like q9 calling; thereafter yeah you're unlucky but the small pf raise allows this to happen.
As Matt said, my pre-flop raise of 3x was completely standard. A bigger raise would have really limited my range and while I probably would have taken the pot down there and then, that's not exactly getting maximum value from holding aces. As TheEdge mentioned, surely we want Q9 to be calling?
Do you guys agree with this statement?
"This should have been an easy fold on the turn, right? Getting, what, about 4/1, with an approx 18% chance of hitting".
Why is the turn an ''easy fold''? We don't know the villain has Qx or the flush, and although those hands can be included in their range there is probably a number of other hands that they can also have that we beat; hands that might be trying to pinch the pot/semi bluffing with a high club draw or made hands betting for protection.
You've checked twice (along with rest of the table) which is giving off weakness/giving up, so I think you're pretty under-repped by the turn. I'm definitely not folding turn and possibly calling river depending on how the board pans out and who the villain is.
As for the QQ hand, generally there won't be many occasions on Sky where folding QQ pre flop with only 30bb will be the right play, and that's regardless of if it's a BH/turbo/FO or whatever. Again I'd caveat that with it can depend on certain circumstances/villain/table dynamic but as a rule of thumb 30bb and QQ is a lovely spot to get it in and often 100bb and QQ is also a lovely spot to get it in.
Interested and surprised by your analysis. For the first hand; limp pre-flop from the opponent followed by a 1/2 pot bet on the turn into four other players. I'm struggling to think about what he could have had that I'm beating. A flush draw is possible, but I have the ace as a blocker making it less likely. Could be doing it with a king, I don't think most would make that play with a jack or lower? Especially given that he has 50 BB's or so. I felt like probability wise I'm beat in that spot - and I wasn't getting the pot odds to call. That was the logic anyway.
Find your analysis about (almost) never folding QQ intriguing. Hmmm .. something for me to think about I guess!
Not an expert in TDYM but I wouldn't be making hero folds of QQ to often in MTTs. Maybe its more common place in TDYMs.
I do agree (and did call). I guess what threw me a bit is the opposition shoving 30BB's following a 3x raise, then a three bet, then a call. Doesn't that limit him to AA, KK or AK? AQ maybe, JJ or worse seems unlikely in my mind?
Interested and surprised by your ability (or lack of) to read hand histories correctly. You 3x raise AA and villain peels. Villain doesn't limp in. Whole hand is different if the villain limp calls but that's not applicable to the hh you posted. As played I think it's a very easy call on the turn and see what the river brings.
Regarding QQ, I'm certainly not suggesting you should never fold it pre. There are times when it is quite a trivial fold for one reason or another. In the games that I play (mostly up to £11, often BHs), it will usually be a standard spot to get QQ in pre if possible. That's not a hard and fast 'rule' though, and as always it will often depend on circumstances. In games like the £33s+ where you generally have bigger start stacks and longer blinds it perhaps wouldn't be standard to get QQ in pre vs population tendencies in these games.
In TDYMs I imagine you'd need to have a ridiculous read to correctly fold Queens pre flop (assuming not on the bubble); you can't hang about in them games and with a 33bb start stack and quick blinds you're not gonna get many opportunities to win chips with a stronger hand.
Interested and surprised by your ability (or lack of) to read hand histories correctly. You 3x raise AA and villain peels. Villain doesn't limp in. Whole hand is different if the villain limp calls but that's not applicable to the hh you posted. As played I think it's a very easy call on the turn and see what the river brings.
Regarding QQ, I'm certainly not suggesting you should never fold it pre. There are times when it is quite a trivial fold for one reason or another. In the games that I play (mostly up to £11, often BHs), it will usually be a standard spot to get QQ in pre if possible. That's not a hard and fast 'rule' though, and as always it will often depend on circumstances. In games like the £33s+ where you generally have bigger start stacks and longer blinds it perhaps wouldn't be standard to get QQ in pre vs population tendencies in these games.
In TDYMs I imagine you'd need to have a ridiculous read to correctly fold Queens pre flop (assuming not on the bubble); you can't hang about in them games and with a 33bb start stack and quick blinds you're not gonna get many opportunities to win chips with a stronger hand.
Oh! Yeah, looks like I just mis-read that. Okay, that changes the whole complexion of the hand, and I now see where you're coming from. Apologies about that!
Can't argue with the logic about QQ, cheers for the guidance.
A 6 max, turbo event, that's right up my street! I feel like I have to play this.
Okay, I can now stop moaning. Bought into "Online Day 1B" of this event for £165 making it one of the biggest tournaments I have played.
Got some good hands, got value from them, and finished 2nd overall which gets me into the 50k GTD live day two at DTD. I'll be taking a chipstack of around 930k into day two, which is about 78 blinds. The good news is that everyone who reaches day two gets at least a min cash, which I believe is £300. The bad news is that I have yet to do well - or even cash - in a live event. Therefore, I'm not expecting much from Sunday. Nevertheless, I have a healthy stack and the blind levels are 30 minutes each, so I can play tight and pick my spots.
Comments
Do you guys agree with this statement?
"This should have been an easy fold on the turn, right? Getting, what, about 4/1, with an approx 18% chance of hitting".
However, what if this happened in an MTT with say 10 minute blind levels, I'm curious to know if you would call. Maybe the answer will be different depending on if it's a bounty hunter or not?
We don't know the villain has Qx or the flush, and although those hands can be included in their range there is probably a number of other hands that they can also have that we beat; hands that might be trying to pinch the pot/semi bluffing with a high club draw or made hands betting for protection.
You've checked twice (along with rest of the table) which is giving off weakness/giving up, so I think you're pretty under-repped by the turn. I'm definitely not folding turn and possibly calling river depending on how the board pans out and who the villain is.
As for the QQ hand, generally there won't be many occasions on Sky where folding QQ pre flop with only 30bb will be the right play, and that's regardless of if it's a BH/turbo/FO or whatever. Again I'd caveat that with it can depend on certain circumstances/villain/table dynamic but as a rule of thumb 30bb and QQ is a lovely spot to get it in and often 100bb and QQ is also a lovely spot to get it in.
I agree that we have to call with the Q-Q. Villain will have A-K or A-Q - maybe J-J or worse - FAR more often than they will have K-K or A-A.
22
JTs
AQo
88
JJ
AKs
https://www.dusktilldawncasinonottingham.com/dtd150
A 6 max, turbo event, that's right up my street! I feel like I have to play this.
Find your analysis about (almost) never folding QQ intriguing. Hmmm .. something for me to think about I guess! I do agree (and did call). I guess what threw me a bit is the opposition shoving 30BB's following a 3x raise, then a three bet, then a call. Doesn't that limit him to AA, KK or AK? AQ maybe, JJ or worse seems unlikely in my mind?
You 3x raise AA and villain peels. Villain doesn't limp in. Whole hand is different if the villain limp calls but that's not applicable to the hh you posted. As played I think it's a very easy call on the turn and see what the river brings.
Regarding QQ, I'm certainly not suggesting you should never fold it pre. There are times when it is quite a trivial fold for one reason or another.
In the games that I play (mostly up to £11, often BHs), it will usually be a standard spot to get QQ in pre if possible. That's not a hard and fast 'rule' though, and as always it will often depend on circumstances. In games like the £33s+ where you generally have bigger start stacks and longer blinds it perhaps wouldn't be standard to get QQ in pre vs population tendencies in these games.
In TDYMs I imagine you'd need to have a ridiculous read to correctly fold Queens pre flop (assuming not on the bubble); you can't hang about in them games and with a 33bb start stack and quick blinds you're not gonna get many opportunities to win chips with a stronger hand.
Can't argue with the logic about QQ, cheers for the guidance.
Got some good hands, got value from them, and finished 2nd overall which gets me into the 50k GTD live day two at DTD. I'll be taking a chipstack of around 930k into day two, which is about 78 blinds. The good news is that everyone who reaches day two gets at least a min cash, which I believe is £300. The bad news is that I have yet to do well - or even cash - in a live event. Therefore, I'm not expecting much from Sunday. Nevertheless, I have a healthy stack and the blind levels are 30 minutes each, so I can play tight and pick my spots.