Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
Rees-Mogg says most Tory activists he meets voting for Brexit party Here are the main points from Jacob Rees-Mogg’s LBC phone-in this morning.
Rees-Mogg, the Tory Brexiter and chair of the European Research Group, said most Conservative activists he met were voting for the Brexit party. As LBC reports, he said: Normally when you go and speak to Conservative associations and you’re not fully supportive of the leader of the party, whoever that leader happens to be, you’re not the most popular person in the room.
At the moment, nobody is saying anything supportive of the leader or of the leader’s policy.
The majority of the people at associations I’m addressing – and these are members of the party – tell me they’re voting for the Brexit party.
This is in line with the findings of a ConservativeHome survey of members last month that found that 60% of them said they would vote for the Brexit party in the Euro elections.
He said he did not see how Theresa May could continue with so little support from the members. He said: I don’t see how a leader can go on so removed from the support base of the party membership. He said he was urging people to vote for the Conservatives in the European elections for the sake of May’s successor. Referring to disillusioned Tories, he said: I would appeal to their loyalty, to their tradition and to say that the Conservative party will get a new leader at some point.
We want that new leader to have a base on which he or she can build and if we find that we are getting under 15% of the vote, if we are coming fifth behind the Greens, then it will be harder for that figure to rebuild.
He said the BBC was biased in favour of remain. As LBC reports, he said: The partiality of the BBC has become clearer and clearer. It is a pro-remain organisation, it regularly has more pro-remain interviewees on its programmes
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
That's the forum minions dealt with today ..back to the important stuff >>>
Farage says party allegiances now becoming 'irrelevant' compared to views on Brexit
After the Brexit party rally near Pontefract this morning, Nigel Farage, the party leader, did a Facebook live interview with LBC’s Theo Usherwood. Here are some of the main points.
Farage said, if the Brexit party held the balance of power after a general election, it would do a deal with one of the main parties to pass a hard Brexit. Asked if he would do a deal with Labour or the Tories, if he had for example 50 MPs, Farage said: If we could save £39bn, come out of the customs union, come out of the single market, come out of the jurisdiction of the European court of justice and be a genuinely independent, self-governing democracy that could choose its own future, I’d do a deal with the devil to get that.
He said he would see it as his “duty” to stand for parliament himself at the next general election. He said Brexit allegiances now matter much more than party political allegiances. He said: I think what’s going on here is people’s traditional allegiance, whether they are left of centre or right of centre, is now considered to be irrelevant by most people. People are now identifying as leavers or remainers more than being left or right, more than being Tory or Labour. Jeremy Corbyn repeatedly claims the opposite, saying (as he did in a speech last week) “the real divide in our country is not how people voted in the EU referendum.” But, as my colleague Matthew d’Ancona says in his column today, polling evidence backs up Farage’s analysis more than Corbyn’s.
Farage rejected claims that a no-deal Brexit would lead to extra delays at borders, saying tariffs could be logged via the internet and mobile phones. He said: Already as a result of the no-deal preparations, which the EU have done more extensively than we have done ... already the airline potential problem is sorted ... There are disruptions every day with airports. You get fog on an airport, you get disruption.
I spoke to the head of the pharmaceutical industry, the head of their lobbyists, and said: “What about all these scare stories about drugs?” He said: “Absolute, total nonsense. Everybody is prepared.”
And the president of the port of Calais has said there will be no increased transport times as a result of a WTO Brexit. All of this is doable. You know, business finds a way through every different situation. And, frankly, if you look at trade around the world now, where tariffs are due, this is all logged online, very often done by people on their mobile phones. The idea that somehow we are going to be cut off is utter nonsense.
An article from John Redwood , written in February , but still very pertinent >>> A lack of ambition for Brexit
Listening to government Ministers presenting plans to ensure a smooth exit without signing the Withdrawal Agreement, I am struck by the lack of ambition and enthusiasm for Brexit. It is all presented in terms of damage limitation. Their wish is to ensure continuity. They exaggerate the worries and see none of the opportunities.
I am all in favour of Day One continuity of law, and voted for that in the EU Withdrawal Act. That should now all be behind us. There is no need for Parliament to make heavy weather of the Statutory Instrument changes, which are technical and not designed to change any policy or remove any legal protection. By now we should be debating the opportunities that running our own government and choosing our own laws can bring.
Lets take the case of medicines. The UK has a strong position in the global pharmaceutical sector. It accepted a European regulatory system whilst we were in the EU, but has quite enough critical mass in medicines to be able to run our own well respected system as we used to. If we became a prime global regulator other countries would wish to use our system, and we could drive world standards forward. There is money to be earned out of being a centre of excellence for regulation and for research and production.
Lets look at the opportunity to rebuild our fishing industry, as long as we become an independent coastal state this year before more damage is done to our fishing grounds by a common policy which allows too many industrial trawlers from abroad to take fish from our seas.
Lets propose changes to tariffs and agricultural support that nurtures a larger home industry in temperate food, as we used to have before we joined the Common Agricultural Policy. There are too many food miles from the continent for products we could more easily grow for ourselves.
Lets look at how we could improve the data rules and regulations to foster more tec based new businesses in a variety of sectors. Above all, lets spend some time debating how we wish to spend all the money we will save once we have left. This economy needs a boost from lower tax rates and from more being spent on some core public services. Brexit gives us the chance to do just that.
That's the forum minions dealt with today ..back to the important stuff >>>
Farage says party allegiances now becoming 'irrelevant' compared to views on Brexit
After the Brexit party rally near Pontefract this morning, Nigel Farage, the party leader, did a Facebook live interview with LBC’s Theo Usherwood. Here are some of the main points.
Farage said, if the Brexit party held the balance of power after a general election, it would do a deal with one of the main parties to pass a hard Brexit. Asked if he would do a deal with Labour or the Tories, if he had for example 50 MPs, Farage said: If we could save £39bn, come out of the customs union, come out of the single market, come out of the jurisdiction of the European court of justice and be a genuinely independent, self-governing democracy that could choose its own future, I’d do a deal with the devil to get that.
He said he would see it as his “duty” to stand for parliament himself at the next general election. He said Brexit allegiances now matter much more than party political allegiances. He said: I think what’s going on here is people’s traditional allegiance, whether they are left of centre or right of centre, is now considered to be irrelevant by most people. People are now identifying as leavers or remainers more than being left or right, more than being Tory or Labour. Jeremy Corbyn repeatedly claims the opposite, saying (as he did in a speech last week) “the real divide in our country is not how people voted in the EU referendum.” But, as my colleague Matthew d’Ancona says in his column today, polling evidence backs up Farage’s analysis more than Corbyn’s.
Farage rejected claims that a no-deal Brexit would lead to extra delays at borders, saying tariffs could be logged via the internet and mobile phones. He said: Already as a result of the no-deal preparations, which the EU have done more extensively than we have done ... already the airline potential problem is sorted ... There are disruptions every day with airports. You get fog on an airport, you get disruption.
I spoke to the head of the pharmaceutical industry, the head of their lobbyists, and said: “What about all these scare stories about drugs?” He said: “Absolute, total nonsense. Everybody is prepared.”
And the president of the port of Calais has said there will be no increased transport times as a result of a WTO Brexit. All of this is doable. You know, business finds a way through every different situation. And, frankly, if you look at trade around the world now, where tariffs are due, this is all logged online, very often done by people on their mobile phones. The idea that somehow we are going to be cut off is utter nonsense.
Glad to see I've been promoted to minion status...better than being ignored..I suppose
I agree with all you say about the self serving politicians in all of the parties..what worries me more is the 'belief' that Farage is the man to make a difference...can't see it AT ALL
still it could be worse( could it?) Chris Grayling or Liam Fox could be in charge of negotiations...that's two sackings that seem to have been ignored
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
That's the forum minions dealt with today ..back to the important stuff >>>
Farage says party allegiances now becoming 'irrelevant' compared to views on Brexit
After the Brexit party rally near Pontefract this morning, Nigel Farage, the party leader, did a Facebook live interview with LBC’s Theo Usherwood. Here are some of the main points.
Farage said, if the Brexit party held the balance of power after a general election, it would do a deal with one of the main parties to pass a hard Brexit. Asked if he would do a deal with Labour or the Tories, if he had for example 50 MPs, Farage said: If we could save £39bn, come out of the customs union, come out of the single market, come out of the jurisdiction of the European court of justice and be a genuinely independent, self-governing democracy that could choose its own future, I’d do a deal with the devil to get that.
He said he would see it as his “duty” to stand for parliament himself at the next general election. He said Brexit allegiances now matter much more than party political allegiances. He said: I think what’s going on here is people’s traditional allegiance, whether they are left of centre or right of centre, is now considered to be irrelevant by most people. People are now identifying as leavers or remainers more than being left or right, more than being Tory or Labour. Jeremy Corbyn repeatedly claims the opposite, saying (as he did in a speech last week) “the real divide in our country is not how people voted in the EU referendum.” But, as my colleague Matthew d’Ancona says in his column today, polling evidence backs up Farage’s analysis more than Corbyn’s.
Farage rejected claims that a no-deal Brexit would lead to extra delays at borders, saying tariffs could be logged via the internet and mobile phones. He said: Already as a result of the no-deal preparations, which the EU have done more extensively than we have done ... already the airline potential problem is sorted ... There are disruptions every day with airports. You get fog on an airport, you get disruption.
I spoke to the head of the pharmaceutical industry, the head of their lobbyists, and said: “What about all these scare stories about drugs?” He said: “Absolute, total nonsense. Everybody is prepared.”
And the president of the port of Calais has said there will be no increased transport times as a result of a WTO Brexit. All of this is doable. You know, business finds a way through every different situation. And, frankly, if you look at trade around the world now, where tariffs are due, this is all logged online, very often done by people on their mobile phones. The idea that somehow we are going to be cut off is utter nonsense.
Glad to see I've been promoted to minion status...better than being ignored..I suppose
I agree with all you say about the self serving politicians in all of the parties..what worries me more is the 'belief' that Farage is the man to make a difference...can't see it AT ALL
still it could be worse( could it?) Chris Grayling or Liam Fox could be in charge of negotiations...that's two sackings that seem to have been ignored
Yes , I have promoted you ...but you are on trial .
He might not ultimately be the man to make it happen , I concede that much ...but as Cameron started the whole Brexit ball rolling , all it takes is for a lot of unhappy disaffected people to latch on and Nigel starts the next chapter .
Politics isn't working in this country . Noone knew just how bad it was and just how ineffectual our politicians actually were until brexit.
Now my head hurts with all this thinking and using my own words , so need to get back to quotes from " The Sun "
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
The bolded bit , because I have a headache ..will attack the rest later . It's not going to happen ...they've had 3 years to come to a consensus ...the only way brexit is going to happen , is if we get forced into a no deal or a general election happens after another extension from the eu ( highly unlikely) , and a party actually campaigning for brexit gets in a position of power.
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
The bolded bit , because I have a headache ..will attack the rest later . It's not going to happen ...they've had 3 years to come to a consensus ...the only way brexit is going to happen , is if we get forced into a no deal or a general election happens after another extension from the eu ( highly unlikely) , and a party actually campaigning for brexit gets in a position of power.
But your way involves a MINIMUM of another 3 years doing nothing except massaging Farage's ego. The next General Election is in 2022.
I accept that the people voted to leave. I want to leave in 2019. Not have a cunning plan, that (IF successful) might, just might, lead to progress in 2022.
People keep ignoring the fact that business needs certainty. This limbo that we have already been in for 3 years is undoubtedly worse than EITHER Leave OR Remain.
I can see potential benefits for Nigel Farage in voting for his party. But none whatsoever in relation to actually leaving.
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
If there was a party called the pink unicorn party , and they were the only party interested in camapaigning for the result of the referendum to be carried out , and I thought they were going to give uk politics a **** good shake up , they would have my vote as well .... Even better let them form an alliance with Nigel and call it " Nige's Pink brexit unicorn party"
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
If there was a party called the pink unicorn party , and they were the only party interested in camapaigning for the result of the referendum to be carried out , and I thought they were going to give uk politics a **** good shake up , they would have my vote as well .... Even better let them form an alliance with Nigel and call it " Nige's Pink brexit unicorn party"
But you need 326 MPs. Options are:-
1. Work on the dissidents among the 313 Tory MPs 2. Appease enough of the 246 Labour MPs 3. Appeal to the 0 Brexit Party MPs
Which one do you think gets to 326 quickest?
Monster Raving Loony Pink Unicorn Brexit Alliance for the win
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
I don't think I've ever said that I think another vote would be a win for remain ( prepared to be proven wrong ) ....I don't , I think that leave would win by a bigger margin . But that's not the point it would serve no useful purpose either way the result went . On the one hand leave wins again , more time wasted , more money spent , same stalemate ..back to square one . If remain won , civil unrest , leave voters challenging for another vote , general widespread political apathy ( yea , even more ) .
Comments
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
Here are the main points from Jacob Rees-Mogg’s LBC phone-in this morning.
Rees-Mogg, the Tory Brexiter and chair of the European Research Group, said most Conservative activists he met were voting for the Brexit party. As LBC reports, he said:
Normally when you go and speak to Conservative associations and you’re not fully supportive of the leader of the party, whoever that leader happens to be, you’re not the most popular person in the room.
At the moment, nobody is saying anything supportive of the leader or of the leader’s policy.
The majority of the people at associations I’m addressing – and these are members of the party – tell me they’re voting for the Brexit party.
This is in line with the findings of a ConservativeHome survey of members last month that found that 60% of them said they would vote for the Brexit party in the Euro elections.
He said he did not see how Theresa May could continue with so little support from the members. He said:
I don’t see how a leader can go on so removed from the support base of the party membership.
He said he was urging people to vote for the Conservatives in the European elections for the sake of May’s successor. Referring to disillusioned Tories, he said:
I would appeal to their loyalty, to their tradition and to say that the Conservative party will get a new leader at some point.
We want that new leader to have a base on which he or she can build and if we find that we are getting under 15% of the vote, if we are coming fifth behind the Greens, then it will be harder for that figure to rebuild.
He said the BBC was biased in favour of remain. As LBC reports, he said:
The partiality of the BBC has become clearer and clearer. It is a pro-remain organisation, it regularly has more pro-remain interviewees on its programmes
Not sure his leader thinks the same way .
A cross-party Brexit deal will not get through Parliament unless it is subject to a fresh public vote, shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer says.
Talks between Labour and ministers over leaving the EU have been going on for a month with little sign of progress.
Sir Keir told the Guardian that without a new referendum, up to 150 Labour MPs would vote against any agreement made.
Looking forward to that stance sending another load of voters over to the brexit party .
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky
The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
Farage says party allegiances now becoming 'irrelevant' compared to views on Brexit
After the Brexit party rally near Pontefract this morning, Nigel Farage, the party leader, did a Facebook live interview with LBC’s Theo Usherwood. Here are some of the main points.
Farage said, if the Brexit party held the balance of power after a general election, it would do a deal with one of the main parties to pass a hard Brexit. Asked if he would do a deal with Labour or the Tories, if he had for example 50 MPs, Farage said:
If we could save £39bn, come out of the customs union, come out of the single market, come out of the jurisdiction of the European court of justice and be a genuinely independent, self-governing democracy that could choose its own future, I’d do a deal with the devil to get that.
He said he would see it as his “duty” to stand for parliament himself at the next general election.
He said Brexit allegiances now matter much more than party political allegiances. He said:
I think what’s going on here is people’s traditional allegiance, whether they are left of centre or right of centre, is now considered to be irrelevant by most people. People are now identifying as leavers or remainers more than being left or right, more than being Tory or Labour.
Jeremy Corbyn repeatedly claims the opposite, saying (as he did in a speech last week) “the real divide in our country is not how people voted in the EU referendum.” But, as my colleague Matthew d’Ancona says in his column today, polling evidence backs up Farage’s analysis more than Corbyn’s.
Farage rejected claims that a no-deal Brexit would lead to extra delays at borders, saying tariffs could be logged via the internet and mobile phones. He said:
Already as a result of the no-deal preparations, which the EU have done more extensively than we have done ... already the airline potential problem is sorted ... There are disruptions every day with airports. You get fog on an airport, you get disruption.
I spoke to the head of the pharmaceutical industry, the head of their lobbyists, and said: “What about all these scare stories about drugs?” He said: “Absolute, total nonsense. Everybody is prepared.”
And the president of the port of Calais has said there will be no increased transport times as a result of a WTO Brexit. All of this is doable. You know, business finds a way through every different situation. And, frankly, if you look at trade around the world now, where tariffs are due, this is all logged online, very often done by people on their mobile phones. The idea that somehow we are going to be cut off is utter nonsense.
A lack of ambition for Brexit
Listening to government Ministers presenting plans to ensure a smooth exit without signing the Withdrawal Agreement, I am struck by the lack of ambition and enthusiasm for Brexit. It is all presented in terms of damage limitation. Their wish is to ensure continuity. They exaggerate the worries and see none of the opportunities.
I am all in favour of Day One continuity of law, and voted for that in the EU Withdrawal Act. That should now all be behind us. There is no need for Parliament to make heavy weather of the Statutory Instrument changes, which are technical and not designed to change any policy or remove any legal protection. By now we should be debating the opportunities that running our own government and choosing our own laws can bring.
Lets take the case of medicines. The UK has a strong position in the global pharmaceutical sector. It accepted a European regulatory system whilst we were in the EU, but has quite enough critical mass in medicines to be able to run our own well respected system as we used to. If we became a prime global regulator other countries would wish to use our system, and we could drive world standards forward. There is money to be earned out of being a centre of excellence for regulation and for research and production.
Lets look at the opportunity to rebuild our fishing industry, as long as we become an independent coastal state this year before more damage is done to our fishing grounds by a common policy which allows too many industrial trawlers from abroad to take fish from our seas.
Lets propose changes to tariffs and agricultural support that nurtures a larger home industry in temperate food, as we used to have before we joined the Common Agricultural Policy. There are too many food miles from the continent for products we could more easily grow for ourselves.
Lets look at how we could improve the data rules and regulations to foster more tec based new businesses in a variety of sectors.
Above all, lets spend some time debating how we wish to spend all the money we will save once we have left. This economy needs a boost from lower tax rates and from more being spent on some core public services. Brexit gives us the chance to do just that.
I agree with all you say about the self serving politicians in all of the parties..what worries me more is the 'belief' that Farage is the man to make a difference...can't see it AT ALL
still it could be worse( could it?) Chris Grayling or Liam Fox could be in charge of negotiations...that's two sackings that seem to have been ignored
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
He might not ultimately be the man to make it happen , I concede that much ...but as Cameron started the whole Brexit ball rolling , all it takes is for a lot of unhappy disaffected people to latch on and Nigel starts the next chapter .
Politics isn't working in this country . Noone knew just how bad it was and just how ineffectual our politicians actually were until brexit.
Now my head hurts with all this thinking and using my own words , so need to get back to quotes from " The Sun "
It's not going to happen ...they've had 3 years to come to a consensus ...the only way brexit is going to happen , is if we get forced into a no deal or a general election happens after another extension from the eu ( highly unlikely) , and a party actually campaigning for brexit gets in a position of power.
I accept that the people voted to leave. I want to leave in 2019. Not have a cunning plan, that (IF successful) might, just might, lead to progress in 2022.
People keep ignoring the fact that business needs certainty. This limbo that we have already been in for 3 years is undoubtedly worse than EITHER Leave OR Remain.
I can see potential benefits for Nigel Farage in voting for his party. But none whatsoever in relation to actually leaving.
Even better let them form an alliance with Nigel and call it " Nige's Pink brexit unicorn party"
1. Work on the dissidents among the 313 Tory MPs
2. Appease enough of the 246 Labour MPs
3. Appeal to the 0 Brexit Party MPs
Which one do you think gets to 326 quickest?
Monster Raving Loony Pink Unicorn Brexit Alliance for the win
On the one hand leave wins again , more time wasted , more money spent , same stalemate ..back to square one . If remain won , civil unrest , leave voters challenging for another vote , general widespread political apathy ( yea , even more ) .