Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
I don't think I've ever said that I think another vote would be a win for remain ( prepared to be proven wrong ) ....I don't , I think that leave would win by a bigger margin . But that's not the point it would serve no useful purpose either way the result went . On the one hand leave wins again , more time wasted , more money spent , same stalemate ..back to square one . If remain won , civil unrest , leave voters challenging for another vote , general widespread political apathy ( yea , even more ) .
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
The bolded bit , because I have a headache ..will attack the rest later . It's not going to happen ...they've had 3 years to come to a consensus ...the only way brexit is going to happen , is if we get forced into a no deal or a general election happens after another extension from the eu ( highly unlikely) , and a party actually campaigning for brexit gets in a position of power.
But your way involves a MINIMUM of another 3 years doing nothing except massaging Farage's ego. The next General Election is in 2022.
I accept that the people voted to leave. I want to leave in 2019. Not have a cunning plan, that (IF successful) might, just might, lead to progress in 2022.
People keep ignoring the fact that business needs certainty. This limbo that we have already been in for 3 years is undoubtedly worse than EITHER Leave OR Remain.
I can see potential benefits for Nigel Farage in voting for his party. But none whatsoever in relation to actually leaving.
It's not my way Phil ...do you honestly believe any of this mob are going to deliver on Brexit or allow no deal to take place ...I don't .
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
The bolded bit , because I have a headache ..will attack the rest later . It's not going to happen ...they've had 3 years to come to a consensus ...the only way brexit is going to happen , is if we get forced into a no deal or a general election happens after another extension from the eu ( highly unlikely) , and a party actually campaigning for brexit gets in a position of power.
But your way involves a MINIMUM of another 3 years doing nothing except massaging Farage's ego. The next General Election is in 2022.
I accept that the people voted to leave. I want to leave in 2019. Not have a cunning plan, that (IF successful) might, just might, lead to progress in 2022.
People keep ignoring the fact that business needs certainty. This limbo that we have already been in for 3 years is undoubtedly worse than EITHER Leave OR Remain.
I can see potential benefits for Nigel Farage in voting for his party. But none whatsoever in relation to actually leaving.
It's not my way Phil ...do you honestly believe any of this mob are going to deliver on Brexit or allow no deal to take place ...I don't .
I had doubts. The emergence of Farage has made any hope of it less likely. For me, No-Deal is the worst scenario. The second-worst is not leaving.
Rees-Mogg says most Tory activists he meets voting for Brexit party Here are the main points from Jacob Rees-Mogg’s LBC phone-in this morning.
Rees-Mogg, the Tory Brexiter and chair of the European Research Group, said most Conservative activists he met were voting for the Brexit party. As LBC reports, he said: Normally when you go and speak to Conservative associations and you’re not fully supportive of the leader of the party, whoever that leader happens to be, you’re not the most popular person in the room.
At the moment, nobody is saying anything supportive of the leader or of the leader’s policy.
The majority of the people at associations I’m addressing – and these are members of the party – tell me they’re voting for the Brexit party.
This is in line with the findings of a ConservativeHome survey of members last month that found that 60% of them said they would vote for the Brexit party in the Euro elections.
He said he did not see how Theresa May could continue with so little support from the members. He said: I don’t see how a leader can go on so removed from the support base of the party membership. He said he was urging people to vote for the Conservatives in the European elections for the sake of May’s successor. Referring to disillusioned Tories, he said: I would appeal to their loyalty, to their tradition and to say that the Conservative party will get a new leader at some point.
We want that new leader to have a base on which he or she can build and if we find that we are getting under 15% of the vote, if we are coming fifth behind the Greens, then it will be harder for that figure to rebuild.
He said the BBC was biased in favour of remain. As LBC reports, he said: The partiality of the BBC has become clearer and clearer. It is a pro-remain organisation, it regularly has more pro-remain interviewees on its programmes
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Nigel Farage style Brexit petition.
'Leave right away!' Brexit petition calling for May to ABANDON negotiations signed by 70k A PETITION to MPs calling for Theresa May to abandon the Brexit negotiations and pull Britain out of the EU immediately has attracted more than 70,000 signatures.
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I wonder when people comment on the repercussions of a referendum, whether they truly and naively believe that everything will go back to normal if and when it is ever concluded.
The divisions over Brexit will not heal for many years to come, whatever the outcome.
Some people have predicted Civil War resulting from Brexit not happening. Yet there were only 5 arrests on the Brexit Betrayal demonstration. The Climate change protest got over 1,000. So it would seem that not many people were that mad about Brexit not happening at the end of March.
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
The referendum was nothing to do with the masses. It was about UKIP, and Tory Party internal divisions, which had been running for years.
He was right in respect of killing UKIP off, but was less successful over the Tory divisions.
Major’s battle with “the bastards” (he was caught on an open mic referring to his Eurosceptic Cabinet colleagues as such in 1993) was a running sore that blighted his whole time in office. And today, Cameron faces the twin problem of fighting off an electoral challenge from Powell’s political heirs in Ukip, while also keeping the Eurosceptic wing of his own party happy.
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows
Exclusive: YouGov Poll Reveals 64% Want Second Brexit Referendum Research, commissioned by Hope Not Hate and Best For Britain, also showed 11% lead for Remain.
People think Remain would win a second referendum Half the public (51%) think Remain would be more likely to win a second in/out referendum, while only 23% say the same for Leave. A further 12% think both sides stand an equal chance of winning, while the final 14% don’t know. Those who voted to stay in the EU in 2016 overwhelmingly back that outcome winning if a new vote was cast, with 72% thinking Remain’s odds are better and only 9% believing this of Leave. Leave voters likewise tend to back their own side’s chances but to a much lesser extent at 42% vs 30%.
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I wonder when people comment on the repercussions of a referendum, whether they truly and naively believe that everything will go back to normal if and when it is ever concluded.
The divisions over Brexit will not heal for many years to come, whatever the outcome.
Some people have predicted Civil War resulting from Brexit not happening. Yet there were only 5 arrests on the Brexit Betrayal demonstration. The Climate change protest got over 1,000. So it would seem that not many people were that mad about Brexit not happening at the end of March.
That's because so far the process has been delayed not cancelled . Kill brexit and then watch the mood change very quickly .
Rees-Mogg says most Tory activists he meets voting for Brexit party Here are the main points from Jacob Rees-Mogg’s LBC phone-in this morning.
Rees-Mogg, the Tory Brexiter and chair of the European Research Group, said most Conservative activists he met were voting for the Brexit party. As LBC reports, he said: Normally when you go and speak to Conservative associations and you’re not fully supportive of the leader of the party, whoever that leader happens to be, you’re not the most popular person in the room.
At the moment, nobody is saying anything supportive of the leader or of the leader’s policy.
The majority of the people at associations I’m addressing – and these are members of the party – tell me they’re voting for the Brexit party.
This is in line with the findings of a ConservativeHome survey of members last month that found that 60% of them said they would vote for the Brexit party in the Euro elections.
He said he did not see how Theresa May could continue with so little support from the members. He said: I don’t see how a leader can go on so removed from the support base of the party membership. He said he was urging people to vote for the Conservatives in the European elections for the sake of May’s successor. Referring to disillusioned Tories, he said: I would appeal to their loyalty, to their tradition and to say that the Conservative party will get a new leader at some point.
We want that new leader to have a base on which he or she can build and if we find that we are getting under 15% of the vote, if we are coming fifth behind the Greens, then it will be harder for that figure to rebuild.
He said the BBC was biased in favour of remain. As LBC reports, he said: The partiality of the BBC has become clearer and clearer. It is a pro-remain organisation, it regularly has more pro-remain interviewees on its programmes
Brexit: Cross-party deal must include confirmatory vote - Sir Keir Starmer
A cross-party Brexit deal will not get through Parliament unless it is subject to a fresh public vote, shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer says.
Talks between Labour and ministers over leaving the EU have been going on for a month with little sign of progress.
Sir Keir told the Guardian that without a new referendum, up to 150 Labour MPs would vote against any agreement made.
Looking forward to that stance sending another load of voters over to the brexit party .
How will that help Brexit?
How ? There's nothing like a wave of defecting support to get the self serving wastes of space to realise that the only way to get back that support is to deliver on the promise .
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows
Exclusive: YouGov Poll Reveals 64% Want Second Brexit Referendum Research, commissioned by Hope Not Hate and Best For Britain, also showed 11% lead for Remain.
People think Remain would win a second referendum Half the public (51%) think Remain would be more likely to win a second in/out referendum, while only 23% say the same for Leave. A further 12% think both sides stand an equal chance of winning, while the final 14% don’t know. Those who voted to stay in the EU in 2016 overwhelmingly back that outcome winning if a new vote was cast, with 72% thinking Remain’s odds are better and only 9% believing this of Leave. Leave voters likewise tend to back their own side’s chances but to a much lesser extent at 42% vs 30%.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered . Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
I don't think I've ever said that I think another vote would be a win for remain ( prepared to be proven wrong ) ....I don't , I think that leave would win by a bigger margin . But that's not the point it would serve no useful purpose either way the result went . On the one hand leave wins again , more time wasted , more money spent , same stalemate ..back to square one . If remain won , civil unrest , leave voters challenging for another vote , general widespread political apathy ( yea , even more ) .
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I wonder when people comment on the repercussions of a referendum, whether they truly and naively believe that everything will go back to normal if and when it is ever concluded.
The divisions over Brexit will not heal for many years to come, whatever the outcome.
Some people have predicted Civil War resulting from Brexit not happening. Yet there were only 5 arrests on the Brexit Betrayal demonstration. The Climate change protest got over 1,000. So it would seem that not many people were that mad about Brexit not happening at the end of March.
That's because so far the process has been delayed not cancelled . Kill brexit and then watch the mood change very quickly .
Looks like Haysies favourite person has finally admitted that there just isn't and never has been the support to revoke article 50
margaret georgiadou
@madgie1941 May 11 More Re THE Petition: I've been told it has had its day, that it is ancient history, that it has been rejected and is therefore pointless. Maybe. BUT it is all we have in the way of a recorded remain vote at the moment. 6million may be 'historic' but it is nowhere near 17.4 million.
Bit like the aforementioned person , she has now turned her attention to Farage bashing ...so predictably crass these remoaners .
She could hardly be my favourite person, I don't know the woman.
There is no shortage of people wishing to bash Nigel Farage.
To say that there is no support, when 6 million people signed the petition is very silly.
An abjectly miserable amount of support for a nonsense petition , especially when you consider 16,141,241 voted remain in 2016 . If the remoaners were to be believed , then that figure should be higher now , with people having " changed their minds " ....Fantasy !
Irony...there was short period when I could have been one of the 16+m leavers, but with little or no concrete evidence that leaving a union( a collective group/power/influence-come on, you're an old fashioned northerner..you understand abart t' union, stand together brothers etc) was right I voted remain...and the shambles of all of the parties' approaches since the votes leaves me to believe we would have even more chaos if we had left
So genuinely NOW, with what we now 'think' we know abart leaving t' union, a 2nd vote would allow people-on both sides- to change their minds and decide based on the information we have now and if it remains(sic) as a leave vote, then we can put the chaos of the last 3 years behind us....
Like Farage said(but of course he won't do it), I might just go and live abroad to my French chateau and live out my retirement peacefully..oh but then
I couldn't play- or comment on forums- on Sky The French hate us even more than before
2nd vote? I would predict a minimum of 60% remain
The only thing a 2nd vote would do , is make an already divisive society even more fractured . Leave voters will say that it is undemocratic , remain voters the opposite ....it's not even about the validity of arguments such as that anymore , it's about sides taking the opposite view by default .
We know more now ? Do we? ..the only things we definitely know is the current crop of politicians couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery , party politics is something all sides put above what's best for the country and no great surprise , but they can't keep their word.
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows
Exclusive: YouGov Poll Reveals 64% Want Second Brexit Referendum Research, commissioned by Hope Not Hate and Best For Britain, also showed 11% lead for Remain.
People think Remain would win a second referendum Half the public (51%) think Remain would be more likely to win a second in/out referendum, while only 23% say the same for Leave. A further 12% think both sides stand an equal chance of winning, while the final 14% don’t know. Those who voted to stay in the EU in 2016 overwhelmingly back that outcome winning if a new vote was cast, with 72% thinking Remain’s odds are better and only 9% believing this of Leave. Leave voters likewise tend to back their own side’s chances but to a much lesser extent at 42% vs 30%.
Comments
For me, No-Deal is the worst scenario. The second-worst is not leaving.
'Leave right away!' Brexit petition calling for May to ABANDON negotiations signed by 70k
A PETITION to MPs calling for Theresa May to abandon the Brexit negotiations and pull Britain out of the EU immediately has attracted more than 70,000 signatures.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/891960/brexit-petition-theresa-may-eu-negotiations-no-deal
The divisions over Brexit will not heal for many years to come, whatever the outcome.
Some people have predicted Civil War resulting from Brexit not happening. Yet there were only 5 arrests on the Brexit Betrayal demonstration. The Climate change protest got over 1,000. So it would seem that not many people were that mad about Brexit not happening at the end of March.
He was right in respect of killing UKIP off, but was less successful over the Tory divisions.
Major’s battle with “the bastards” (he was caught on an open mic referring to his Eurosceptic Cabinet colleagues as such in 1993) was a running sore that blighted his whole time in office. And today, Cameron faces the twin problem of fighting off an electoral challenge from Powell’s political heirs in Ukip, while also keeping the Eurosceptic wing of his own party happy.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/03/lesson-history-conservative-divisions-over-europe-will-get-worse-not
Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html
Exclusive: YouGov Poll Reveals 64% Want Second Brexit Referendum
Research, commissioned by Hope Not Hate and Best For Britain, also showed 11% lead for Remain.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/yougov-poll-reveals-64-want-second-brexit-referendum_uk_5c1b90fee4b05c88b6f5815f
People think Remain would win a second referendum
Half the public (51%) think Remain would be more likely to win a second in/out referendum, while only 23% say the same for Leave. A further 12% think both sides stand an equal chance of winning, while the final 14% don’t know.
Those who voted to stay in the EU in 2016 overwhelmingly back that outcome winning if a new vote was cast, with 72% thinking Remain’s odds are better and only 9% believing this of Leave. Leave voters likewise tend to back their own side’s chances but to a much lesser extent at 42% vs 30%.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/01/where-we-stand-brexit
Kill brexit and then watch the mood change very quickly .
On what evidence are you predicting a 60% remain vote ?
I can't believe we could become any more fractured as a society as now.....
No evidence, no polls, just personal opinion, based on all of the discussions I have with people who voted leave and have reflected over time...anecdotal evidence only, just as you will have the same anecdotal evidence to counter my prediction of 60% remain...
Having said that, its been such a shambles from Farage bullying Cameron into a vote in the first instance, an elongated withdrawal period of 3,5,7, infinite no of years to 'leave' will probably happen if we don't have a second referendum...
Well we can ...just wait and see what chaos will ensue with a multitude of fringe far right groups , if Brexit isn't delivered .
Complete hogwash ..Cameron wasn't bullied by Farage ..he thought he would offer a crumb to the masses in the form of a referendum . He never thought for a minute that remain wouldn't hold the day , and brownie points all around from the subservient masses for giving us a " say " .
I disagree with a lot of what you say in this thread. Quick examples would be:-
1. There is a world of difference between a "confirmatory vote" and a "2nd (or 3rd) Referendum. The former is now being forced upon the country by Farage himself
2. I think people are genuinely discontent with current politicians, but I am at a complete loss as to how Farage can keep claiming he is not in the "political class"-of course he is. He has founded 2 of the largest parties in the UK, and been handsomely paid by the EU for many years
3. People are voting for a Party with no policies, no coherent plan to leave the EU, and have absolutely no say in the only body that matters in us leaving (the UK Parliament). How will that help us leave? Might as well vote for The Pink Unicorn Party.
4. The quickest way for us to leave the EU would be either (1) the Tory party to get behind May's deal on a Canada-plus basis; or (2) for cross-party consensus to leave on a Norway-type deal. The main reason that the latter is now unlikely to happen is because of pressure from Farage. His rhetoric about the supposed "sell-out" (ie the way he was campaigning in 2016) means that it won't happen. And fear of him from the Tories will force a confirmatory vote, which will cause further delay
Sure Farage isn't secretly being paid by Remainers?
Turning to the post I quoted above, I agree with both you and Madprof. I think if there was a 2nd vote it would be a win for Remain (but prob less than 60%), but the cost to the nation would be too high. It is not "3 years so look for change of leadership", it is "refuse to implement in the first 3 years, then revote". That can't be right. People always claim to be better-informed, but, frankly, they are not (on all sides). And Cameron was bullied by the 1922 Committee, not Farage (who, Sinatra-like, had "retired" yet again)
I don't think I've ever said that I think another vote would be a win for remain ( prepared to be proven wrong ) ....I don't , I think that leave would win by a bigger margin . But that's not the point it would serve no useful purpose either way the result went .
On the one hand leave wins again , more time wasted , more money spent , same stalemate ..back to square one . If remain won , civil unrest , leave voters challenging for another vote , general widespread political apathy ( yea , even more ) .
Completely agree with that bit.
The last bit is completely wrong.