Hi Alan. Was fun chatting with you for a bit last night at the tables but not so fun playing against you - I jumped in just to see what you were like sort of expecting you to be standard TAG... nope, so LAG! I think you 3 bet my opens more times in that hour and a half than I'd been 3 bet in total at 4nl previously... and I've played 4nl with @Angmar2626@Duesenberg@JJBinks and @Allan23 (those were some fun games)
Alan clearly recognises the value in isolating the fish at the table
I really like @MattBates suggestion of keeping an hourly rating for how well you think you're playing - especially in cash games where there is no natural end point. I know that I've often had sessions where I've ended up playing well below my best and for far too long because I'm down on the night but am determined to get even before calling it quits.
Rumour has it that Matt once dropped to a 9/10 for an hour in 2013, but I think that was probably an April fools joke.
Hello everyone thought I would post a quick update while I can. We got Sky Q installed on Friday morning and for whatever reason it has messed up my internet connection. An engineer from Sky is coming out on Monday so hopefully should be back at the tables then. Anyway I have managed to get the forum up so here is my weekly update as I cant get any tables to load up so wont be playing again tonight.
This week I did not manage to make my weekly volume goals as you can see. However if it was not for what I believe to be the Sky man messing up my connection I was on target to make it. After running insanely hot in the first week I have had my first loosing week at 4NL ever.
The profits that I have recorded are £40 from the weekly micro madness promo, then £30 from my one and only hand of 5/10 spin & go then lastly £8.50 from the weekly cash bonuses. So even though I am in profit for the week it is actually a weekly loss at 4NL of £32.69. This doesn't worry me in the slightest as I just put it down to short term variance which comes with recording results on a weekly basis.
Think I am going to start adding a few sessions of 4NL/10NL mix this week (maybe 3 tables of each at a time possible more 10NL if the games are good). Was going to wait until I had 40 buy-ins for that stake but to be honest I think 31 is enough for me to play a few session here and there. If my bankroll ever drops below £250 I will cut out the 10NL tables for a while an build it back up as one of the reasons that I have been failing to move up the stakes is because of bad BRM, so this time I want to do things right.
Again thanks for everyone who has posted here it is nice to see all of you popping in with friendly conversation and advice Really looking forward to getting back at the tables tomorrow, so fingers crossed. Also I will be starting to post a few hands once I start mixing in a few of these 10NL tables in tomorrow as it is not often that you get put in any tough spots at 4NL. Hope everything is going well for all of you following this thread
In terms of watching other games, I wouldn't bother with spins if you are playing 100bb+ if you are watching as a learning aid. Sometimes these games can get deep but you will be better watching the highest available 100bb game even if its only say 100nl. I know its fine watching big value pots but with spins until there gets a decent bit of money on the table its lots of standard 10-20bb shove and calls. I think you may gain more from watching the level above what you are playing and making some notes on these players. Years back I used to have certain players I liked the game style of and I would watch these players to see what I could pick up from them.
If you are just watching for fun then spins is great fun to watch.
Hi mate, yes I agree that watching these spin & go's are no good to use a learning aid as not much of what you will see will relate to 100bb+ poker. This was the only high stakes game running and just wanted to watch it for the action. Good idea about loading up a 20nl game and start taking notes.
I also like the idea of rating your play on an hourly basis. I tend to play a few sessions a day of between 1 and 2 hours long so may start of by rating my individual sessions. Will also be watching the biggest winners at these stakes and trying to implement some of their play, great idea.
Hi Alan. Was fun chatting with you for a bit last night at the tables but not so fun playing against you - I jumped in just to see what you were like sort of expecting you to be standard TAG... nope, so LAG! I think you 3 bet my opens more times in that hour and a half than I'd been 3 bet in total at 4nl previously... and I've played 4nl with @Angmar2626@Duesenberg@JJBinks and @Allan23 (those were some fun games)
It looks like you already have a following of people on board with this who are extremely knowledgeable and experienced in poker and also generous with regards to sharing that knowledge and experience. You also write really well - funny story about the Spin up table I sometimes watch the higher stakes cash and Spins as well. Was watching a spin up table the other night and one guy was sat with £4.5k in front of him, nobody could win enough flips against him to chip up to 40bb and maybe start playing some poker... crazy high variance games.
glgl
Nice talking to you too mate Yes I guessed that you would of thought that I was just trying to pick on you with the 3-bets but that actually isn't true. I do play a pretty standard TAG game by default but try and adjust when necessary. Playing against a table full of "recreational players" TAG is always going to be the most profitable style of play which I am sure you already know
I actually didn't notice you was sat at my table until you typed in the chat box but after a few orbits I had you down as one of the better players at the table who played quite TAG also. Anyway I had position on you and caught a good few premium hands early on and you must of folded to my 3-bet about 4 or 5 times when I had a really good hand so I decided to just start 3-betting really light till you adjust which to your credit is what you did, just called my 3-bet OOP and let me barrel away with the worst hand and known me if I am playing what I believe to be a competent player who I think are able to fold to a river shove if they think they are beat and there is something that I can represent (amazing how many players at 4NL call when then they more or less know that you have made your hand on the river knowing they are beat so you have to be careful) I am shoving.
On the whole though mate I really enjoyed talking with you and playing against you. What games and stakes do you usually play ? GL anyway pal
And to everyone else who I have not responded to in another post, thanks for following. The more people that follow I think the better the thread will become as we will have lots of different opinions and discussions making this a good learning tool for not just me but also people who are following this thread and who are In a similar position to me @Tikay10@KOBAYASHI@Itsover4u@68Trebor@Angmar2626@engy@kapowblamz@mumsie GL to all of you
I seriously recommend NOT playing a LAG style at 4nl or 10nl with the rake at 7.5%. Tho I hate to encourage it, you have to nit it up.
A high rake environment + playing LAG = endless speculation and many small pots which is just going to drain yours and everyone's bankrolls.
Hi pal, like I said I do generally tend to play TAG by default but loosen up a bit if the table is full of TAG's. I know there is not a whole lot of difference but I would say when I do loosen up I play more of a **** (semi-loose) so if we where to track my play it would be something like 27 VPIP, 22 PFR I would imagine.
But good point as I did not take the rake in to consideration, this is something that I keep forgetting. In terms of bb/100 how many bb difference do you think that the extra 2.5% makes ? I think I read 5% is 10bb/100 so obviously 7.5% would be 15bb/100. When you put it like that I guess it's a no brainer. Thanks again for bringing that up mate
I think as rake gets higher the rate at which you need to be beating the games grows exponentially so it would be more than that.
Guess I am going to just have to table select harder if I find myself sat at a really tight table rather than switching my play up. There are usually plenty of tables to choose from at the lower stakes.
Hello again Alan. I didn't mean to drop you in it with the cash regulars by referring to you as LAG, sorry about that. I should have had the foresight to consider the possible fallout from making a comment like that which was almost a tongue-in-cheek/throw-away-line anyway and based on not too much of anything over a very small sample size
Aaanyway...
To answer your questions: I predominantly play £1.10-£5.50 MTT's on Sky (I play a little higher on another site that I have (probably) run way above EV on for the best part of two years and have made more money/managed to build a larger bankroll than on Sky) but I'm basically just an avid recreational micro/low stakes MTTer who spends way too much time playing and not enough time really trying to move my game forward in an attempt to become profitable in higher buy-in games. I do attempt to satellite into the £33 nightly main event on Sky by way of the 18:00 'Semi' but the value has been well and truly sucked out of this route since all the better regulars (who are already registered for the main obviously) seemed to collectively make the decision to start playing it (some time last year - they didn't all used to play it and I'm not sure what the catalyst was for that change... it could be my imagination and they probably just trickled in independently over a longer period of time but they are all playing it now anyway and there was a time when they weren't). I used to make it to the main regularly via this route but table/seat draw is absolutely crucial in it now... I've gone rogue and I'm ranting, oops
I don't play cash that often tbh but when I do it's usually at one or two tables of 20nl when my MTT session has come to a premature (and most likely tilting) end... so not the best preparation for starting a cash game session I'm the worst cash game player going anyway, my sessions either see me dust off a buy-in or two and rage quit or I'll be a few buy-ins up, consider ratholing the profits, carry on playing, lose half a buy-in back and then quit - just about contentedly - but also a little miffed that I didn't walk away when I had £x… I understand the words in the phrase It's All One Long Session but the concept is lost on me unfortunately
gl at 10nl. Will follow and maybe jump into a game now and then in future to check if you have curbed your LAGgy ways...
Hello again Alan. I didn't mean to drop you in it with the cash regulars by referring to you as LAG, sorry about that. I should have had the foresight to consider the possible fallout from making a comment like that which was almost a tongue-in-cheek/throw-away-line anyway and based on not too much of anything over a very small sample size
Aaanyway...
To answer your questions: I predominantly play £1.10-£5.50 MTT's on Sky (I play a little higher on another site that I have (probably) run way above EV on for the best part of two years and have made more money/managed to build a larger bankroll than on Sky) but I'm basically just an avid recreational micro/low stakes MTTer who spends way too much time playing and not enough time really trying to move my game forward in an attempt to become profitable in higher buy-in games. I do attempt to satellite into the £33 nightly main event on Sky by way of the 18:00 'Semi' but the value has been well and truly sucked out of this route since all the better regulars (who are already registered for the main obviously) seemed to collectively make the decision to start playing it (some time last year - they didn't all used to play it and I'm not sure what the catalyst was for that change... it could be my imagination and they probably just trickled in independently over a longer period of time but they are all playing it now anyway and there was a time when they weren't). I used to make it to the main regularly via this route but table/seat draw is absolutely crucial in it now... I've gone rogue and I'm ranting, oops
I don't play cash that often tbh but when I do it's usually at one or two tables of 20nl when my MTT session has come to a premature (and most likely tilting) end... so not the best preparation for starting a cash game session I'm the worst cash game player going anyway, my sessions either see me dust off a buy-in or two and rage quit or I'll be a few buy-ins up, consider ratholing the profits, carry on playing, lose half a buy-in back and then quit - just about contentedly - but also a little miffed that I didn't walk away when I had £x… I understand the words in the phrase It's All One Long Session but the concept is lost on me unfortunately
gl at 10nl. Will follow and maybe jump into a game now and then in future to check if you have curbed your LAGgy ways...
Your are better off playing 4x£1.80 all ins. Less time taken of yours and same price as a semi lol
Internet has been fixed this morning and have just played my first 4NL/10NL mix session for just short of 2 hours. Played alright, could of been better towards the end. Started making a few bad decisions that is why I came off but I still ended the session in a profit not that it really matters.
If anyone can tell me which is the best way to post hands on here I will start including a few in this thread. Also can I change the colour of the text when writing a comment ?
Internet has been fixed this morning and have just played my first 4NL/10NL mix session for just short of 2 hours. Played alright, could of been better towards the end. Started making a few bad decisions that is why I came off but I still ended the session in a profit not that it really matters.
If anyone can tell me which is the best way to post hands on here I will start including a few in this thread. Also can I change the colour of the text when writing a comment ?
Probably massively convaluted but on the browser this is what I do :
My acc ..get hand id no , and copy Go to my skypoker tab and select hand history Paste hand no into search by hand id box Click details next to result Copy And right click and paste into forum
Don’t forget to block anynames out that are involved in the action. It’s quite hard to go through the text and delete where appropriate but only way. Don’t forget to replace the names with appropriate codes.
Can you not just go direct in to my sky poker > hand history via the lobby ? I have just selected a random hand there but when I got it up there was no copy button to press like there was in that video you posted mumsie. I can copy all the text and post it that was but in the format that you have posted yours above with the lines and grids.
The reason that it did not have the copy button when I tried following the video that you sent @mumsie is because I was trying to copy it in my lobby not from my browser. All sorted now thanks
I seriously recommend NOT playing a LAG style at 4nl or 10nl with the rake at 7.5%. Tho I hate to encourage it, you have to nit it up.
A high rake environment + playing LAG = endless speculation and many small pots which is just going to drain yours and everyone's bankrolls.
Hi pal, like I said I do generally tend to play TAG by default but loosen up a bit if the table is full of TAG's. I know there is not a whole lot of difference but I would say when I do loosen up I play more of a **** (semi-loose) so if we where to track my play it would be something like 27 VPIP, 22 PFR I would imagine.
But good point as I did not take the rake in to consideration, this is something that I keep forgetting. In terms of bb/100 how many bb difference do you think that the extra 2.5% makes ? I think I read 5% is 10bb/100 so obviously 7.5% would be 15bb/100. When you put it like that I guess it's a no brainer. Thanks again for bringing that up mate
If the table is full of TAG players, you're doing it wrong, especially on Sky
When the dead money has been won, move on to pastures new. Rinse, repeat and you'll very quickly move from £4nl to the £20nl and £30nl games.
I've helped steer several players through the lowest lobby and without a shadow of doubt, the rake is the biggest obstacle to overcome. Keep it simple. Save the battles with half decent tight players for when it becomes much harder to avoid.
Comments
I really like @MattBates suggestion of keeping an hourly rating for how well you think you're playing - especially in cash games where there is no natural end point. I know that I've often had sessions where I've ended up playing well below my best and for far too long because I'm down on the night but am determined to get even before calling it quits.
Rumour has it that Matt once dropped to a 9/10 for an hour in 2013, but I think that was probably an April fools joke.
WEEK (22/4 - 28/4)
HOURS PLAYED - 22.46
PROFIT/LOSS - +£45.87
BANKROLL - £315.87
This week I did not manage to make my weekly volume goals as you can see. However if it was not for what I believe to be the Sky man messing up my connection I was on target to make it. After running insanely hot in the first week I have had my first loosing week at 4NL ever.
The profits that I have recorded are £40 from the weekly micro madness promo, then £30 from my one and only hand of 5/10 spin & go then lastly £8.50 from the weekly cash bonuses. So even though I am in profit for the week it is actually a weekly loss at 4NL of £32.69. This doesn't worry me in the slightest as I just put it down to short term variance which comes with recording results on a weekly basis.
Think I am going to start adding a few sessions of 4NL/10NL mix this week (maybe 3 tables of each at a time possible more 10NL if the games are good). Was going to wait until I had 40 buy-ins for that stake but to be honest I think 31 is enough for me to play a few session here and there. If my bankroll ever drops below £250 I will cut out the 10NL tables for a while an build it back up as one of the reasons that I have been failing to move up the stakes is because of bad BRM, so this time I want to do things right.
Again thanks for everyone who has posted here it is nice to see all of you popping in with friendly conversation and advice
I also like the idea of rating your play on an hourly basis. I tend to play a few sessions a day of between 1 and 2 hours long so may start of by rating my individual sessions. Will also be watching the biggest winners at these stakes and trying to implement some of their play, great idea.
Thanks for the advice and GL to you also
I actually didn't notice you was sat at my table until you typed in the chat box but after a few orbits I had you down as one of the better players at the table who played quite TAG also. Anyway I had position on you and caught a good few premium hands early on and you must of folded to my 3-bet about 4 or 5 times when I had a really good hand so I decided to just start 3-betting really light till you adjust which to your credit is what you did, just called my 3-bet OOP and let me barrel away with the worst hand and known me if I am playing what I believe to be a competent player who I think are able to fold to a river shove if they think they are beat and there is something that I can represent (amazing how many players at 4NL call when then they more or less know that you have made your hand on the river knowing they are beat so you have to be careful) I am shoving.
On the whole though mate I really enjoyed talking with you and playing against you. What games and stakes do you usually play ? GL anyway pal
I seriously recommend NOT playing a LAG style at 4nl or 10nl with the rake at 7.5%. Tho I hate to encourage it, you have to nit it up.
A high rake environment + playing LAG = endless speculation and many small pots which is just going to drain yours and everyone's bankrolls.
But good point as I did not take the rake in to consideration, this is something that I keep forgetting. In terms of bb/100 how many bb difference do you think that the extra 2.5% makes ? I think I read 5% is 10bb/100 so obviously 7.5% would be 15bb/100. When you put it like that I guess it's a no brainer. Thanks again for bringing that up mate
Aaanyway...
To answer your questions: I predominantly play £1.10-£5.50 MTT's on Sky (I play a little higher on another site that I have (probably) run way above EV on for the best part of two years and have made more money/managed to build a larger bankroll than on Sky) but I'm basically just an avid recreational micro/low stakes MTTer who spends way too much time playing and not enough time really trying to move my game forward in an attempt to become profitable in higher buy-in games. I do attempt to satellite into the £33 nightly main event on Sky by way of the 18:00 'Semi' but the value has been well and truly sucked out of this route since all the better regulars (who are already registered for the main obviously) seemed to collectively make the decision to start playing it (some time last year - they didn't all used to play it and I'm not sure what the catalyst was for that change... it could be my imagination and they probably just trickled in independently over a longer period of time but they are all playing it now anyway and there was a time when they weren't). I used to make it to the main regularly via this route but table/seat draw is absolutely crucial in it now...
I've gone rogue and I'm ranting, oops
I don't play cash that often tbh but when I do it's usually at one or two tables of 20nl when my MTT session has come to a premature (and most likely tilting) end... so not the best preparation for starting a cash game session
I understand the words in the phrase It's All One Long Session but the concept is lost on me unfortunately
gl at 10nl. Will follow and maybe jump into a game now and then in future to check if you have curbed your LAGgy ways...
If anyone can tell me which is the best way to post hands on here I will start including a few in this thread. Also can I change the colour of the text when writing a comment ?
My acc ..get hand id no , and copy
Go to my skypoker tab and select hand history
Paste hand no into search by hand id box
Click details next to result
Copy
And right click and paste into forum
Here is how I posted this using my mobile phone, it's not so different on PC.
As K0BAYASHl says, edit out unwanted names or streets and click preview before you post to check your happy with it.
Can you not just go direct in to my sky poker > hand history via the lobby ? I have just selected a random hand there but when I got it up there was no copy button to press like there was in that video you posted mumsie. I can copy all the text and post it that was but in the format that you have posted yours above with the lines and grids.
When the dead money has been won, move on to pastures new. Rinse, repeat and you'll very quickly move from £4nl to the £20nl and £30nl games.
I've helped steer several players through the lowest lobby and without a shadow of doubt, the rake is the biggest obstacle to overcome. Keep it simple. Save the battles with half decent tight players for when it becomes much harder to avoid.
GL with the grind.