"Don’t forget to block any names out that are involved in the action....."
You don't have to remove the Aliases of other players UNLESS you plan to insult them, describe them as "fish" (which you seem far too bright to ever do), or berate their play in any way.
If it's a standard "WWYD here? hand analysis, you are free to leave the aliases in.
Well today went pretty awful if I am honest. There are a few reasons why I believe this happened and they are :
1) Playing the same amount of tables I usually play (6) but playing a few short handed (3 or 4 players) and a couple of heads up but at the 6-max tables so I struggles to keep up with the action a lot of the time and ended up making bad decisions. I would say averaging 750 hands/hr appose to my usual 500 hands/hr.
2) It might just be me looking to far in to it but I have played 10NL-100NL here on sky and do not think I have been 4-bet as much as what I have been today which I believe is probably due to more people reading this thread than I would of imagined and more specifically my comment to @MynaFrett about 3-betting light until people adjust.
3) To top all that off I ended up playing way longer than I should of whilst tilted.
So not playing tonight as want to start fresh with a clear head tomorrow and try and make a few adjustments if necessary.
For one if the games are short handed or heads up like today I will be playing 4 tables max as I am trying to play all tables at 10NL if possible. In fact from now on I am going to load only 4 up at start of my session and then add on if the 4 are running too slow and not load up 6 and take off if the 6 are running too fast.
Secondly in relation to how I am going to adjust to people 4-betting me light (may just have been a massive coincidence but I don't think so at all) and also people playing back at me more than they usually would I am going to keep my big mouth shut as I think that is what got me in trouble in the first place
I am going to be 100% honest in this thread about my results as by not being honest and telling people where I believe I am going wrong then I am never going to get better as a player.
I also think by being honest and giving you lot who are following this thread more information about where I am going wrong then yous are in a better position to help me and offer advice.
Lastly to lie to the people who are here to help and support me is the just really disrespectful.
I usually never post daily results but because of how bad today went I just want to put it out there and learn from it. I mean I only lost 5 buy-ins at 10NL in 4 hours which would usually be no big issue if I had considered my play to be alright (I have lost more buy-ins at 4NL in an hour believe it or not)
But as I already mentioned I don't think my play was acceptable and I want to learn from it. I started at 10NL with 31 buy-ins and have dropped down to 26. I did say if I dropped to 25 then I would drop back down to 4NL but I think that is being a bit premature.
I am going to keep playing till I either drop to 20 buy-ins or keep winning. One thing that I found myself doing today again which I have not done for a while is checking my balance and then trying to count how much I had in play across the tables and add them together to see if I am up or down for the session. I should know by now that individual sessions, days and even weeks make no difference it is long term volume that counts.
I definitely did not want this week to start off like it did but in my own little way I am glad that it happened as I want to see where my mental game is at and how I can come back from this. Believe me in the past I would not of been taking tonight off and I would of probably been loading something like 5 tables of 50NL up or 2 tables of 100NL HU to try and recover the losses. Maybe even a bit of blackjack, roulette or a big sports bet.
I know a few people suggested playing fewer tables when moving up and I kind of ignored the advice without really thinking not intentionally, I was just too eager to get started at 10NL. I will not be making the same mistake tomorrow and will be using this time with less tables to take as many notes as possible and I will also be doing a lot of table selecting. I don't mind a challenge playing against a table full of good players but I think that because of the high rake at this stake I will just try and play the softer tables and move up out of here A.S.A.P and maybe leave the challenges to 20NL and above.
I seriously recommend NOT playing a LAG style at 4nl or 10nl with the rake at 7.5%. Tho I hate to encourage it, you have to nit it up.
A high rake environment + playing LAG = endless speculation and many small pots which is just going to drain yours and everyone's bankrolls.
Hi pal, like I said I do generally tend to play TAG by default but loosen up a bit if the table is full of TAG's. I know there is not a whole lot of difference but I would say when I do loosen up I play more of a **** (semi-loose) so if we where to track my play it would be something like 27 VPIP, 22 PFR I would imagine.
But good point as I did not take the rake in to consideration, this is something that I keep forgetting. In terms of bb/100 how many bb difference do you think that the extra 2.5% makes ? I think I read 5% is 10bb/100 so obviously 7.5% would be 15bb/100. When you put it like that I guess it's a no brainer. Thanks again for bringing that up mate
If the table is full of TAG players, you're doing it wrong, especially on Sky
When the dead money has been won, move on to pastures new. Rinse, repeat and you'll very quickly move from £4nl to the £20nl and £30nl games.
I've helped steer several players through the lowest lobby and without a shadow of doubt, the rake is the biggest obstacle to overcome. Keep it simple. Save the battles with half decent tight players for when it becomes much harder to avoid.
GL with the grind.
Hello mate, I agree with what you are saying and although I do generally like battling it out with the better players now and then 10NL is not place to do it.
Lastly whilst combining playing less tables for now and note taking I will be making a list over the coming weeks of the areas in my game that I want to improve.
Like I already know that I could do with working on my sb vs bb opening ranges, sb vs bb defending ranges, 3-bet range from the blinds, cold calling from the blinds and also my cold calling 3-bet range from position.
To be honest there are a lot of things that I need to touch up on as you can get away with having lots of leaks and still be a massive winner at 4NL, whereas at 10NL I am not so sure you will get away with it.
Will be back with a vengeance tomorrow lol Good Night and Good Luck every one
"Don’t forget to block any names out that are involved in the action....."
You don't have to remove the Aliases of other players UNLESS you plan to insult them, describe them as "fish" (which you seem far too bright to ever do), or berate their play in any way.
If it's a standard "WWYD here? hand analysis, you are free to leave the aliases in.
Thanks for pointing that out @Tikay10 however I do think it is best to edit out the actual name of the player and just give a brief description of type of player and any history between you and him.
In relation to calling players "Fish" I try not to use the word as every one has to start some where and these are the players that make us the most money, so where is the point in personally insulting them ?
If you look back in this thread I tend to use either "recreational" or "fun" player, however I am not saying I have never let rage get the better of me and used the term in the chat box, but this is something I am trying hard to stop.
I seriously recommend NOT playing a LAG style at 4nl or 10nl with the rake at 7.5%. Tho I hate to encourage it, you have to nit it up.
A high rake environment + playing LAG = endless speculation and many small pots which is just going to drain yours and everyone's bankrolls.
Hi pal, like I said I do generally tend to play TAG by default but loosen up a bit if the table is full of TAG's. I know there is not a whole lot of difference but I would say when I do loosen up I play more of a **** (semi-loose) so if we where to track my play it would be something like 27 VPIP, 22 PFR I would imagine.
But good point as I did not take the rake in to consideration, this is something that I keep forgetting. In terms of bb/100 how many bb difference do you think that the extra 2.5% makes ? I think I read 5% is 10bb/100 so obviously 7.5% would be 15bb/100. When you put it like that I guess it's a no brainer. Thanks again for bringing that up mate
If the table is full of TAG players, you're doing it wrong, especially on Sky
When the dead money has been won, move on to pastures new. Rinse, repeat and you'll very quickly move from £4nl to the £20nl and £30nl games.
I've helped steer several players through the lowest lobby and without a shadow of doubt, the rake is the biggest obstacle to overcome. Keep it simple. Save the battles with half decent tight players for when it becomes much harder to avoid.
GL with the grind.
Hello mate, I agree with what you are saying and although I do generally like battling it out with the better players now and then 10NL is not place to do it.
Thanks for popping in anyway and GL to you also
I have never understood people who love the battling
I understand it in other games not played for money. When I was a pretty decent pool player back in my 20's for example, I used to love playing very tough opponents as the thrill of beating respected players and being considered one of the best in my area meant something to me.
When playing poker, I want the softest competition available to me at the limits I am playing. I used to think I was in the majority on this but the amount of tables I see on Sky where it's just regs battling, or 5 regs and one weaker player boggles my mind.
Why folk would put up with the software on Sky, just to mostly grind the toughest tables truly boggles my mind. I can be sat at 3-4 tables that have seats open with an aggregate of maybe 10 very weak losing players whilst seeing supposed good regs ignoring them and playing 8+ tables vs other regs.
Just posting a quick hand to make sure I can do it properly. If it's all the same to everyone I am just going to leave the names in as it seems like too much of a mess about blanking them out. I may well leave out the results though.
Anyway above hand, not much history with player (in fact don't think I had ever played a hand against him/her till today) Even though I am getting more or less 5-1 on a call here am I ever good ?
I personally think not, it just screams club flush draw that got there or maybe 67 open ender that got there or a possible 2 pair like 98. Think flopped sets are raising either flop or turn.
Just finished a really good session there. Stuck to 4 tables max, and when I spotted a better table in the lobby I would load it up and then while I am waiting for the big blind to come round to me I would click the sit out on bb button on the table that I wanted to leave.
I only played an hour and half session and I must of changed tables at least 6 times so it just goes to show the benefits of table selecting and also playing fewer tables. I felt as if I had way more time to act on my decisions and really enjoyed playing that session.
I did not feel rushed at all and was not in the slightest bit tilted, plus I was still averaging 400 hands/hr. I think it's because I see some people playing like 16 tables and think if they can play that many and still be a winning player then I should be able to play at least the 6 that fit nicely on to my screen.
I guess that is because many of these players have been playing this game way longer than me and most of the moves they make are automatic. I have to remember that I am still learning and that one of my main causes of tilt is not having enough time to act on my decision and feeling rushed.
The fact that I will be constantly aiming to move up I now don't think I will ever try and play more than 4 tables. I mean when I first started 4NL I couldn't play 4 tables and now I can play 8-10 as like I said moves are automatic and I guess in time moves at 10NL will become automatic but rather than stay at 10NL and mass multi table I will always be aiming to move up so I think 4 tables is fine as a baseline.
Tomorrow is the start of the new month and I think from now on I will stop posting weekly results and just stick to posting monthly results. This way I can also work out how many points I am making each month, hours played, total cash bonus, total table earnings, priority rakeback, rough idea of winrate bb/100 etc.
Should I be giving up in these type of spots or am I right to shove the river here against players I guess can lay top pair hands down ? It's hard to call of 150bb here with a hand as strong as AQ I think and AJ would of probably raised before the river. Also what 8x get to the river after a 3-bet and bet/bet ? Even then I am representing a real strong hand here AA and JJ both very possible here for the boat.
Also if we both had 50bb left behind by time we got to the river and not 150bb am I wasting my time shoving as villain may believe himself to be pot committed ? The only reason I did shove was because of how deep we where but I didn't give it no thought as to what I would of done had we been standard 100bb deep. Interested to hear people's thoughts here.
It's good to see that you've made the move up to 10nl now and I think that the lower table count with better focus is the far superior approach.
With your AA hand, I think the overall difference in EV between a call or a fold on the river is pretty close, so folding is fine (especially given that you've recently moved up and and avoiding those real marginal spots can make more sense until you're more established at 10nl).
Personally, I'd still be calling here but I'm not expecting to be good too often - we only need to be right 17%+ of the time though. The thing that swings if for me is that given you opponent started on a less than 100bb starting stack, they're more likely to be a weaker recreational player. These guys will often be making bigger mistakes here through over-bluffing the river, not 3betting enough pre flop (JJ-KK can still be in their range), floating flops too widely and then value betting too thinly - they'll be turning up with hands like KT and QT occasionally here too. Holding Ac and blocking some flush combos would be the final decider for me but, once again, this is a slightly higher variance call all told.
QTs I'm undecided on. As played, I really like your sizing on the river as you opponent is in a world of pain with all their Ax combos and you can credibly rep a narrow but very nutted range. The flip side is that you massively block all the kinds of hands you want your opponent to have when they've called 2 barrels in a 3bet pot - flush and straight draw combos. I also don't love having QTs in your 3bet/squeeze range here vs an MP opener. Imo, it's too strong to warrant using as a 3bet bluff and it's really going to suck if you then get 4bet - given that your playing deep here you'll probably still want to continue but may well find yourself in some real tough spots post flop. I'd prefer to be more polarised in my 3bet range here and so balance my clear value range with hands like A5s or 65s.
You limiting the diary to cash games or will you discuss HU!
GL in LAS Man standing!
Hi mate, happy to discuss HU also. Could do with getting better at HU as that is where I always seem to end up when on tilt, not good
Just played 2 HU sit and go's and would of ended up in 3rd one if was not for miss click. What format HU do you play sit and go or cash ? I understand MTT's are your main game.
Only just realised what this last man standing promo is, cool. So yes very happy to discuss HU here
I saw your name on the list. HU isn't my game, MTTs is my main thing then play some spins cash games. If I played HU cash the waiting list would probably break the software!
I saw your name on the list. HU isn't my game, MTTs is my main thing then play some spins cash games. If I played HU cash the waiting list would probably break the software!
Not so sure about the bold part Crazy variance in them spins, they are no good for some one who tilts as easy as me. Are you also in this weeks Las Man Standing ? GL if so...
Honestly, this book has cured countless number of players, & is worth it's weight in gold. It's available as an e-Book (or whatever they are called ) too.
Disclaimer - the co-authors are both good friends of mine, especially Barry Carter from Poker Strategy, I have to confess, but I've rarely seen anything except positive reviews for it.
Tilt is a very bad weakness, & costs sufferers absolute fortunes, & in addition, takes away much of our enjoyment of the game. Honestly, sort it & you'll be amazed at the difference. It's not snake-oil, it's the real deal.
The Mental Game Of Poker should be required reading for all poker players.
Not only will it help you with your tilt issues at the poker table, you might also find that it helps you be more rational when dealing the the problems life in general throws at you.
It's a fantastic piece of work that unlike many poker books, has aged well.
@Duesenberg@Tikay10@The--Don I started reading the pdf version last night. Going to read a couple of pages before every session as a type of mental preparation for my cash session.
Comments
Just FIO......
"Don’t forget to block any names out that are involved in the action....."
You don't have to remove the Aliases of other players UNLESS you plan to insult them, describe them as "fish" (which you seem far too bright to ever do), or berate their play in any way.
If it's a standard "WWYD here? hand analysis, you are free to leave the aliases in.
1) Playing the same amount of tables I usually play (6) but playing a few short handed (3 or 4 players) and a couple of heads up but at the 6-max tables so I struggles to keep up with the action a lot of the time and ended up making bad decisions. I would say averaging 750 hands/hr appose to my usual 500 hands/hr.
2) It might just be me looking to far in to it but I have played 10NL-100NL here on sky and do not think I have been 4-bet as much as what I have been today which I believe is probably due to more people reading this thread than I would of imagined and more specifically my comment to @MynaFrett about 3-betting light until people adjust.
3) To top all that off I ended up playing way longer than I should of whilst tilted.
So not playing tonight as want to start fresh with a clear head tomorrow and try and make a few adjustments if necessary.
For one if the games are short handed or heads up like today I will be playing 4 tables max as I am trying to play all tables at 10NL if possible. In fact from now on I am going to load only 4 up at start of my session and then add on if the 4 are running too slow and not load up 6 and take off if the 6 are running too fast.
Secondly in relation to how I am going to adjust to people 4-betting me light (may just have been a massive coincidence but I don't think so at all) and also people playing back at me more than they usually would I am going to keep my big mouth shut as I think that is what got me in trouble in the first place
I also think by being honest and giving you lot who are following this thread more information about where I am going wrong then yous are in a better position to help me and offer advice.
Lastly to lie to the people who are here to help and support me is the just really disrespectful.
I usually never post daily results but because of how bad today went I just want to put it out there and learn from it. I mean I only lost 5 buy-ins at 10NL in 4 hours which would usually be no big issue if I had considered my play to be alright (I have lost more buy-ins at 4NL in an hour believe it or not)
But as I already mentioned I don't think my play was acceptable and I want to learn from it. I started at 10NL with 31 buy-ins and have dropped down to 26. I did say if I dropped to 25 then I would drop back down to 4NL but I think that is being a bit premature.
I am going to keep playing till I either drop to 20 buy-ins or keep winning. One thing that I found myself doing today again which I have not done for a while is checking my balance and then trying to count how much I had in play across the tables and add them together to see if I am up or down for the session. I should know by now that individual sessions, days and even weeks make no difference it is long term volume that counts.
I definitely did not want this week to start off like it did but in my own little way I am glad that it happened as I want to see where my mental game is at and how I can come back from this. Believe me in the past I would not of been taking tonight off and I would of probably been loading something like 5 tables of 50NL up or 2 tables of 100NL HU to try and recover the losses. Maybe even a bit of blackjack, roulette or a big sports bet.
I know a few people suggested playing fewer tables when moving up and I kind of ignored the advice without really thinking not intentionally, I was just too eager to get started at 10NL. I will not be making the same mistake tomorrow and will be using this time with less tables to take as many notes as possible and I will also be doing a lot of table selecting. I don't mind a challenge playing against a table full of good players but I think that because of the high rake at this stake I will just try and play the softer tables and move up out of here A.S.A.P and maybe leave the challenges to 20NL and above.
Thanks for popping in anyway and GL to you also
Like I already know that I could do with working on my sb vs bb opening ranges, sb vs bb defending ranges, 3-bet range from the blinds, cold calling from the blinds and also my cold calling 3-bet range from position.
To be honest there are a lot of things that I need to touch up on as you can get away with having lots of leaks and still be a massive winner at 4NL, whereas at 10NL I am not so sure you will get away with it.
Will be back with a vengeance tomorrow lol Good Night and Good Luck every one
In relation to calling players "Fish" I try not to use the word as every one has to start some where and these are the players that make us the most money, so where is the point in personally insulting them ?
If you look back in this thread I tend to use either "recreational" or "fun" player, however I am not saying I have never let rage get the better of me and used the term in the chat box, but this is something I am trying hard to stop.
I understand it in other games not played for money. When I was a pretty decent pool player back in my 20's for example, I used to love playing very tough opponents as the thrill of beating respected players and being considered one of the best in my area meant something to me.
When playing poker, I want the softest competition available to me at the limits I am playing. I used to think I was in the majority on this but the amount of tables I see on Sky where it's just regs battling, or 5 regs and one weaker player boggles my mind.
Why folk would put up with the software on Sky, just to mostly grind the toughest tables truly boggles my mind. I can be sat at 3-4 tables that have seats open with an aggregate of maybe 10 very weak losing players whilst seeing supposed good regs ignoring them and playing 8+ tables vs other regs.
I don't understand it. I truly don't
Anyway above hand, not much history with player (in fact don't think I had ever played a hand against him/her till today) Even though I am getting more or less 5-1 on a call here am I ever good ?
I personally think not, it just screams club flush draw that got there or maybe 67 open ender that got there or a possible 2 pair like 98. Think flopped sets are raising either flop or turn.
Too nitty of a fold ?
I only played an hour and half session and I must of changed tables at least 6 times so it just goes to show the benefits of table selecting and also playing fewer tables. I felt as if I had way more time to act on my decisions and really enjoyed playing that session.
I did not feel rushed at all and was not in the slightest bit tilted, plus I was still averaging 400 hands/hr. I think it's because I see some people playing like 16 tables and think if they can play that many and still be a winning player then I should be able to play at least the 6 that fit nicely on to my screen.
I guess that is because many of these players have been playing this game way longer than me and most of the moves they make are automatic. I have to remember that I am still learning and that one of my main causes of tilt is not having enough time to act on my decision and feeling rushed.
The fact that I will be constantly aiming to move up I now don't think I will ever try and play more than 4 tables. I mean when I first started 4NL I couldn't play 4 tables and now I can play 8-10 as like I said moves are automatic and I guess in time moves at 10NL will become automatic but rather than stay at 10NL and mass multi table I will always be aiming to move up so I think 4 tables is fine as a baseline.
Tomorrow is the start of the new month and I think from now on I will stop posting weekly results and just stick to posting monthly results. This way I can also work out how many points I am making each month, hours played, total cash bonus, total table earnings, priority rakeback, rough idea of winrate bb/100 etc.
Also if we both had 50bb left behind by time we got to the river and not 150bb am I wasting my time shoving as villain may believe himself to be pot committed ? The only reason I did shove was because of how deep we where but I didn't give it no thought as to what I would of done had we been standard 100bb deep. Interested to hear people's thoughts here.
It's good to see that you've made the move up to 10nl now and I think that the lower table count with better focus is the far superior approach.
With your AA hand, I think the overall difference in EV between a call or a fold on the river is pretty close, so folding is fine (especially given that you've recently moved up and and avoiding those real marginal spots can make more sense until you're more established at 10nl).
Personally, I'd still be calling here but I'm not expecting to be good too often - we only need to be right 17%+ of the time though. The thing that swings if for me is that given you opponent started on a less than 100bb starting stack, they're more likely to be a weaker recreational player. These guys will often be making bigger mistakes here through over-bluffing the river, not 3betting enough pre flop (JJ-KK can still be in their range), floating flops too widely and then value betting too thinly - they'll be turning up with hands like KT and QT occasionally here too. Holding Ac and blocking some flush combos would be the final decider for me but, once again, this is a slightly higher variance call all told.
QTs I'm undecided on. As played, I really like your sizing on the river as you opponent is in a world of pain with all their Ax combos and you can credibly rep a narrow but very nutted range. The flip side is that you massively block all the kinds of hands you want your opponent to have when they've called 2 barrels in a 3bet pot - flush and straight draw combos. I also don't love having QTs in your 3bet/squeeze range here vs an MP opener. Imo, it's too strong to warrant using as a 3bet bluff and it's really going to suck if you then get 4bet - given that your playing deep here you'll probably still want to continue but may well find yourself in some real tough spots post flop. I'd prefer to be more polarised in my 3bet range here and so balance my clear value range with hands like A5s or 65s.
GL in LAS Man standing!
Just played 2 HU sit and go's and would of ended up in 3rd one if was not for miss click. What format HU do you play sit and go or cash ? I understand MTT's are your main game.
Only just realised what this last man standing promo is, cool. So yes very happy to discuss HU here
You've mentioned your tilt issues several times.
Honestly, this book has cured countless number of players, & is worth it's weight in gold. It's available as an e-Book (or whatever they are called ) too.
Disclaimer - the co-authors are both good friends of mine, especially Barry Carter from Poker Strategy, I have to confess, but I've rarely seen anything except positive reviews for it.
The Mental Game Of Poker should be required reading for all poker players.
Not only will it help you with your tilt issues at the poker table, you might also find that it helps you be more rational when dealing the the problems life in general throws at you.
It's a fantastic piece of work that unlike many poker books, has aged well.