China, and its position on the world stage , is one of the really big issues in the world. Far more interesting than anything happening in Wales. China being a “ westernised “ communist country. They can rule with an iron fist when needed. They could probably test the whole of the country if they so wished. Over here in the U.K, there’s a big fuss if you get pulled over in a car by the police, etc. Remember Tiananmen Square? In the last 20 years or so,millions of Chinese citizens have been brought up into the middle classes,those have never experienced a recession. Foreclosures are skyrocketing, world demand must be falling off. Never believe their figures. I‘ll save my China stuff for another day, although, if you fail to see what’s going on in the world regarding China,their might, their weakness, countries doing trade with them,countries looking to cut trade with them,your beloved Euro Zone are now the piggy in the middle. The USA distancing themselves from Europe,dont blame them.
I will just ignore the above nonsense, except to say that it is not my beloved EU, I just think that along with around half the country, that the decision to leave was a bad one.
Take a guess at how many cases of COVID-19 in the U.K. I’ve upped my guess to a couple of million cases.Whats yours? The cases reported daily are new, if they are to be believed.
Why would they exaggerate? Do You think that the Government lies about the number of new cases?
That’s why thousands here and there don’t mean an awful lot. Apart from pressure on the hospitals in any particular area.
There are now more cases in hospital than there were when we had the full lockdown. So why havent we got another one? How can you say that thousands of cases dont matter when a percentage of them will result in death?
So, you haven’t given your position on opening up or locking down.
I am not the Government.
You like to mock any opening up, and like to mock any lockdowns.
Not true I would just like to see a logical explanation for why?
For instance Oliver Dowden was on Sky News yesterday defending the curfew. The reason he was asked to defend it was due to the very low number of new cases which are attributed to the hospitality industry. When asked for the reason why we have a curfew in pubs and restaurants, he referred to a USA report. Leaving aside the reason why our Government would be influenced by an American study. This study was done in July. Yet our Government encouraged many millions of people to visit pubs and restaurants, during August. So what has changed in pubs and restaurants since August? Are the Government wrong now, or were they wrong in August> What makes them more risky after 10pm? Many people have pointed out that many people leaving pubs at the same time is more likely to increase infection rates, than reduce them.
You do realise that track and trace will always be a “ token gesture” if a country is full of the virus?
It would seem really foolish to spend £12billion on a token gesture. If the country was full of the virus we would have herd immunity. They were employing 12,000 call centre staff until recently, seems a lot for a token gesture. Why would Boris want a world beating system if it was only a token gesture Local Authorities already have contract tracing departments set up for tracing STDs, which may well have proved to be more efficient
That would only ever work for a country with few cases.
Really. Logically the test and trace increases in importance as the number of cases rise.
If I was the Guv, I’d say every man, women and kid for themselves. Everybody knows the score by now.
Fortunately you arent.
Open everything up, wear masks where required, and kick on.
I’ve put up a Wailing Wall for you, but you’re not using it.
Just a quick look back at some of your “ questions”, in no particular order.
Our country should be seen as trustworthy? Ha f.....g Ha. Do you know anything about politics outside Wales?
So you think we can maintain credibility throughout the world by breaking treaties? This alone may have put paid to a US trade deal.
All living Tory PM’s and backbenchers have the hump with this Government. Have they all had experience with pandemics and Brexit before?
Not all backbenchers. Acting honestly is important, and the situation is irrelevant. Everything was marvellous, said Boris and his oven ready deal.
You admire former Tory PM’s?
Not all of them. I was merely making the point that I am not alone in my criticism of the Government. It is quite widespread.
Boris was chosen as the best person to win an election, job done.
I am not sure why the Tory Party chose Boris, neither are you. The calibre of his opponents was pretty poor. One thing that is very clear is that there is an increasing number that have changed their minds and regret voting for him
He won’t get ousted until after Brexit. Then only after seeing how the U.K. gets on, which might mean he never gets ousted.
To say that he might get ousted, but he might not is difficult to address. But I think you could be right. He might get ousted, or he might not. Its hard to say.
The press, even the Tory press are against the government? So what, means diddly,
It seems to wind you up.
they don’t need the press behind them. Party’s use the press for their own means, always been the way.
Has it?
Press you the Party’s in a similar fashion.
Is that even English?
Do you think Boris is responsible for what his old man gets up to? Nooooo. Everybody is responsible for their own actions, above a certain age. And those with needs.
There are two choices here, you are either not clever enough to understand the point, or you are ignoring it. This is the point. Boris is the PM. He is responsible for motivating 60 odd million people, to obey the rules, protect the NHS, reduce infections, and save lives. When his own Father is photographed breaking the rules 3 times in one week, in addition to his sneaky Greece trip, what message do you think that sends to the public? This is on top of the other breaches by those that are close to him.
Why would kids and students need compulsory testing? When stats say they are the least vulnerable by a light year.
Because it would have stopped them infecting others, silly. I read an article this week that pointed out that it wasnt the school kids that are at risk, it is the teachers, dinner ladies, parents, grandparents, classroom assistants, bus drivers etc. Universities seem to be a hotbed for infections. Getting students back to University was a priority. Now many have banned teaching in person. So what was the point?
You need to rewind about the opening up after the initial “ lockdown “.
There seems to be a consensus that this was too late.
Too much too soon and all that. If things need closing down again, so be it. We were told. The youth were put first, kids and students needed to kick on. Most agree with that. Alcohol and the virus are not a good mix. Folks have been lucky to even visit a pub.
The chart below makes a mockery of your argument.
We are now in a worse position than when the national lockdown was imposed, so why not another one?
Local lockdowns haven’t been the length of the original lockdown. There can be a delay of six weeks+ with cases surfacing.
And? They are into their 3rd month.
What were you doing in the Commons Bar? Have you got a pass? What was sick about the “ joke”? Taking into account all the sad s hite you share.
You can dig that out yourself.
You quite clearly don’t understand what living with the virus actually means,
Really? Even though I have, for as long as you have?
therefore I can’t help you. You’re also having trouble understanding that certain tasks are allocated to others.
I am not asking you to. Your arrogance in trying to give the impression that you understand everything better than others, and know more about everything is belied by the comments that you make.
Handling the pandemic “ well” means what? Is there a trophy on offer? what do you think a good result may be.
It is the opposite of handling it badly. The Government have consistently followed the science, except on the occasions when they havent. The scientists are now contradicting the Government. They are clearly saying that yesterdays measures are not enough.
In March, only a few hospitals were struggling with numbers.
Admission levels compared to March have now increased.
If you were a doctor or nurse, who needs infectious patients in their hospitals?
Is that a question?
Under normal circumstances there’s very few hospitals with highly infectious patients. It’s down to the citizens to make the life of doctors and nurses easier. If you want to blame the government for every case, then that’s your right, but your be sooo wrong. Which would be par for the course with you.
I dont understand the point you are trying to make?
There won’t be any opposition to the government until Keir Starmer rummages about in his drawer and finds a cloth cap. They should have gone for one of the ladies. Bit sexist, but it would be far more humiliating for Boris to get shouted down by a female, than have someone that looks like he’s been caught in car headlights as the opposition leader.
?
Polls mean diddly if there’s nothing coming up to vote on.
The fact that the PMs approval rating has halved since March is a reflection of how the public think he is doing.
Sage experts say Test and Trace is having a 'marginal' impact on tackling the virus as the system neither tests nor traces enough people - and is too often ignored even when it works £12 billion scheme headed by Baroness Harding not keeping up, Sage said Testing delays, poor rates of adherence and low levels of engagement to blame As the numbers of infections increase, so must the Test, Track and Trace scheme Report piles pressure on the Conservative peer in charge, Baroness Harding
The £12 billion programme will 'further decline' unless it grows at the same rate as the epidemic, the scientific advisory group warned in documents released on Monday.
Boris Johnson has promised the scheme would be 'world beating', while experts and politicians alike see it as a major way of reducing the severity of restrictions imposed during the crisis.
The scheme's success only seems to have worsened since the Sage document was written.
Figures from last week showed NHS Test And Trace in England had suffered its worst week for the proportion of contacts it successfully manages to track down.
Only 68.6% of close contacts of individuals who have tested positive for Covid-19 were reached in the week ending September 30, the lowest weekly percentage since the scheme began.
No 10 ignored warning that 10pm pub curfew would have 'marginal impact' on coronavirus spread
Ministers ignored warnings that the 10 pm pub curfew would have "marginal impact" on the spread of coronavirus, official documents have revealed.
A record of SAGE recommendations from September, released last night, revealed that the top scientists advising the government expressed scepticism about the measure - which has been criticised by pub owners, local council leaders and scientists.
But despite the scepticism, ministers went ahead an introduced the scheme angering their own backbenchers and raising serious questions about the influence of scientific advice on Government policy.
Coronavirus is as serious as it was in March – the only difference is Boris Johnson isn’t taking it seriously
The first is that the government’s panel of scientific advisors have presented a package of measures it says must be introduced in order to suppress the exponential rise of the virus, and Boris Johnson has thought better of it.
The second is that there’s a now a brand new “3 Tier system” for managing local lockdowns, and that when the new system was announced by Boris Johnson on live television, the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, made sure he put on record that it was his view that the third tier doesn’t go far enough.
And it was right at the end of the press conference, that the Sage advice was published. That it was their view a two or three week lockdown should be introduced “immediately”, and that Johnson disagreed.
It’s still slightly unsettling that evidently Johnson does still seem to think that it responds to his now unimaginably tiresome puerile schtick. We were invited, once again, to “squash” the rate of transmission. For some months now, I have been desperately trying to think precisely who it is that Covid era Boris reminds me of, and I think I now finally have it. It is the very much former BP boss, Paul Hayward, who somewhat memorably spoke of wanting to “get my life back” a few days after one of his oil rigs had exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, killing eleven people and turning an entire ocean black. A couple of days later, he would be photographed taking part in a sailing race.
It’s also especially revealing that tens of thousands of deaths are not considered the kind of thing worth suppressing the jester act over. A few years ago, I happened to be in the House of Commons for one of his “resignation” speeches. The Churchill impression was out in force that day. The finger-pointing, the jaw-jabbing, the tragic grandiosity. But then, the subject matter that day was himself, and that stuff really matters.
This was just, you know, some pubs are going to shut early somewhere or other in the north, I’m not doing the full lockdown because I can’t be bothered with the hassle, and if it all carries on spreading then it’ll be up to the mayor of Doncaster to sort it all out.
It was, as responses to a re-emerging pandemic go, very much a case of “will this do?” And unfortunately for us, it is very, very much a case of unfortunately it will have to
Tory MP Chris Green RESIGNS from government claiming Boris Johnson's attempted Covid-19 cure is 'WORSE than the disease' and has brought businesses in his constituency to 'brink of collapse'
Chris Green, pictured, MP for Bolton West and Atherton was the parliamentary private secretary for the leader of the House of Lords, Baroness Evans.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
All the SAGE advice Boris Johnson ignored on Covid last month: 10pm closing time doesn't work, Test and Trace isn't working and closing gyms may do more harm than good SAGE put forward two dozen suggestions about how to navigate through a second wave of the pandemic Many of which fell on deaf ears - including national 'circuit-breaker' and warnings 10pm curfew won't work Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth said revelations in paper dated September 21 were 'alarming'
Number 10 was today blasted for not 'following the science' after bombshell documents showed ministers shunned a number of recommendations by their expert advisers before unveiling the latest suite of lockdown measures. The Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) put forward two dozen suggestions about how to navigate the country through a second wave of the pandemic in September - many of which fell on deaf ears.
Top of the list was a national 'circuit-breaker', which would've seen the country revert to a spring-level lockdown for about a month to bring the outbreak under control. But it was overruled by Boris Johnson amid fears it would 'shatter' the already wounded economy.
Files released today revealed scientists also told the Government:
Test and Trace is only having 'marginal impact' on curtailing the epidemic and if it doesn't get up to speed quickly it'll 'decline further in future'; Ordering everyone who is able to work from home to do so could reduce the R by between 0.2 and 0.4; Closing gyms only has 'low to moderate' impact on Covid-19's spread and may 'limit access to exercise for physical and mental' wellbeing; Mandatory masks in offices and schools would help curb the virus' spread, particularly when social distancing is harder. Evidence suggests face coverings reduce viral exposure, leading to less severe symptoms; Shutting universities and switching all students to online-only courses would drag down the R rate by up to 0.5 and have very little downsides; Encouraging high-risk people to stay in their homes would have 'low impact' on the virus' spread but 'moderate impact' on the number of deaths and hospitalisations; Limiting people from travelling more than 5miles from their homes could have 'moderate' benefit, although communicating and enforcing the policy is 'likely to be very complicated'.
Bombshell minutes from a SAGE meeting presented a shortlist of options including a national 'circuit breaker' lockdown (left). England's Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty and Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance (pictured today in Downing Street) have been steering the Government through the pandemic
10pm pub curfews don't work
Slapping curfews on pubs has barely any effect on Covid-19, the Government's advisers warned last month.
SAGE warned a curfew on pubs would only have a 'marginal impact' - but closing them entirely could slash the R significantly
Academics claim a two-week 'circuit-breaker' lockdown linked to half-term could save 'between 3,000 and 107,000 lives' by New Year after Keir Starmer demanded Boris Johnson take immediate nationwide action as deaths double in a week to 143 Graham Medley from Sage and Matt Keeling from SPI-M are suggesting a two-week lockdown over half-term Labour leader Keir Starmer said shutdown could be timed to take place over half-term to minimise disruption He said that such an extreme measure was needed to bring the second wave of the coronavirus under control Sage scientists had called for two or three week 'circuit breaker' lockdown at a meeting back on September 21 But the PM defied their advice and unveiled a new local 'Three Tier' lockdown system for England on Monday
Graham Medley from Sage and Matt Keeling from the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling are suggesting a two-week lockdown over half-term. The professors, whose findings will be released on Wednesday, claim between 3,000 and 107,000 deaths could stopped by January if Boris Johnson (left, at No 10 on Tuesday) imposes the measure. It comes after Sir Keir (centre, on Tuesday night) demanded Britain be plunged into a nationwide 'circuit-breaker' as soon as possible as he accused the Prime Minister of losing control of the pandemic. The Labour leader said a complete shutdown lasting two to three weeks could be timed to take place over half-term to minimise disruption but warned 'sacrifices' would have to be made to get the virus back under control. Meanwhile Britain recorded more than 100 coronavirus deaths (right) for the first time in four months today as officials announced 143 more victims. Department of Health statistics show the grim milestone has not been hit since June 17, when 110 lab-confirmed fatalities were added to the tally.
Don’t bother underlining anything, as I won’t bother replying to any more questions. I’m not confused, but you apparently are.Although some might appear to be questions, but they’re not.
So, exaggerating what numbers? The numbers given out by the government and the worldometer are PER DAY. Whether it’s 5K 10K 20K new cases PER DAY,so take a good guess on how many cases there might be out there. It may require a little thinking. Can you cope with that? To my knowledge, we are testing nearly the same amount as Spain and France combined. That will equal more cases found, although 8 out of 10 testing positive have no symptoms. You can’t compare March to now, as it’s not like for like. More is known about the virus, there are more treatments etc. There could be overflow from hospitals,but the March lockdown was mainly due to a scientists prediction of 250K deaths in a fairly short time. Boris not being an expert on viruses,as most aren’t,took the correct decision.Also, we now know who really are the vulnerable.
You’re not in the government? Thank f..k for that. You always have a lot to say, but f..k all ideas, well played.
There are many reasons for opening up and locking down,as it’s not an exact science. The scientists are supposedly experts with the virus, but their input has to be applied to other things,such as folks in hospital waiting on ops etc, bed capacity,the economy,etc. Boris has to try and pick what might work the best to suit all the above, not just knee jerk on the advice of a scientist.Taking info from studies from over countries has got to be a good thing,more info the better. That’s were our better forms of treatment came from. As has been said, he can open or close when they feel the time is right.Id like to see some balls from Boris and go against the science.Other countries seem to just about get by, but I suspect their populations have a little more wisdom than ours. We have been known for a long time as a country full of unhealthy folks, and idiots. Example, how they act abroad,Spain in particular. They won’t be doing that again though.That was knocked on the head before the virus emerged.
Curfew. Imo, what is the norm is for the pubs to kick out,straight to a junk fast food shop, or restaurant. Big numbers milling about , great for spreading the virus, especially as most will be tanked up by then.I think he’ll put closing back to normal and let the lowest risk get on with it. Very few will get ill. Those who are vulnerable should know that by now, and not even be there.Its not about controlling the virus, it’s about those that will get sick. Don’t believe what you here otherwise. I don’t think you realise what herd immunity is. Again, not an exact science, but you’re not including the vulnerable in the forecast. On my patch, folks go to the pubs and restaurants in a reasonable number, and follow what they should do. They’re helping the local businesses survive. It’s unfortunate if someone lives in a s hite area, but those folks are only shooting themselves in the foot, and will be paying for it out of their own pockets in the future. They won’t realise that though. It’s going to be mighty interesting to see the local authorities taking over. Closing local buisnesses is going to be interesting while there hospitals could potentially overflow. Then there’s the issue of if they have to lockdown. Cap in hand to the Chancellor I’d expect. This all sounds rather dangerous. Track and trace. So it’s £12 Billion if you believe the figures.Id like to see some of this allocated money and donations to the WHO, and other organisations audited in the future. Following the money trail for vaccines if they ever arrive. Strange how Bill Gates is always grinning when he’s interviewed. Most odd. So tracking and tracing involves mostly 8out of 10 with no symptoms, their contacts, and then contacts of them and so on. So you end up with hundreds of work isolating when they’re fighting fit. They have bills to pay etc.It sounds like a wonderful project for the economy. F..k tracking and tracing, testing is the wtg. How many of the highly publicised agriculture workers or factory staff have become ill or died. Newspaper s hite, move on that’s old news. Suited us then. The death rate will likely be below 1% when all done and dusted. Covid 19 deaths this year lies 24th in most causes of death in the U.K. And that includes all the care home and elderly deaths. I won’t be s hitting my pants anytime soon.
The media and the world leaders are just puppets to the globalists. I’m sure they aren’t in on anything. That’s why I want to see Boris go against popular beliefs.F..k the science. People die all the time, through this and that. There’s talk of throwing in flu cases in the numbers too. Lol. Flu kills quite a few kids worldwide.With cooler weather, the virus lingers for longer,more transmissions, more cases, but so what. If the numbers don’t involve the vulnerable, who cares. But, then there’s the idiots. Or those very intelligent kids I noticed when I was growing up. It’s surprising how most lacked common sense. They would definitely struggle to leave a pub in an orderly fashion, and then f..k off home.
Back to where it all started, Wuhan. Purely propaganda. Look how efficient we are building new isolation units/ hospitals.When there were numerous large buildings that could have been easily converted. Then they have one patient waving goodbye to a dozen doctors and nurses. They were so efficient, that they got everybody that had a temperature out of their homes, then into isolation. So very efficient, that they disinfected their streets constantly, but couldn’t manage to disinfect one single coffin, obviously because the person inside was so highly contagious😱 that even their family members weren’t allowed to the funerals, even though they were healthy. Then as stated before, the WHO announce in June that it might be advisable to wear a mask.The experts, when the virus has been on the go since the end of 2019.
Take out the sick elderly from the U.K. total that died early on, then the death rate would likely be about 4000.Nowhere near other causes of death.
Boris needs to turn this around and get folks back to work.
@HAYSIE , like I said, don’t bother underlining anything, as I’ve no more to say on the subject.
The constant questions mean you are indeed confused. Stay, Whatever.
Don’t bother underlining anything, as I won’t bother replying to any more questions. I’m not confused, but you apparently are.Although some might appear to be questions, but they’re not.
So, exaggerating what numbers? The numbers given out by the government and the worldometer are PER DAY. Whether it’s 5K 10K 20K new cases PER DAY,so take a good guess on how many cases there might be out there. It may require a little thinking. Can you cope with that? To my knowledge, we are testing nearly the same amount as Spain and France combined. That will equal more cases found, although 8 out of 10 testing positive have no symptoms.
I dont know. Some of your comments arent very clear. I was questioning what you said, which was,
The cases reported daily are new, if they are to be believed.
You can’t compare March to now, as it’s not like for like. More is known about the virus, there are more treatments etc. There could be overflow from hospitals,but the March lockdown was mainly due to a scientists prediction of 250K deaths in a fairly short time. Boris not being an expert on viruses,as most aren’t,took the correct decision.Also, we now know who really are the vulnerable.
I merely pointed out that there are more covid patients in hospital now than there were when the national lockdown was implemented. Boris has maintained throughout that the main purpose of the regulations were to protect the NHS. SAGE, and many others, dont think Boris is making the correct decisions. The vulnerable groups came as a surprise to nobody, and was predictable before the virus took hold. It is because Boris is not a virus expert, that he gets advice from SAGE, and then ignores it.
You’re not in the government? Thank f..k for that. You always have a lot to say, but f..k all ideas, well played.
There are many reasons for opening up and locking down,as it’s not an exact science.
When Boris was attempting to avoid blame for the restrictions that were implemented, he recited parrot fashion, that they were following the science.
The scientists are supposedly experts with the virus, but their input has to be applied to other things,such as folks in hospital waiting on ops etc, bed capacity,the economy,etc. Boris has to try and pick what might work the best to suit all the above, not just knee jerk on the advice of a scientist.Taking info from studies from over countries has got to be a good thing,more info the better. That’s were our better forms of treatment came from.
Some of the decisions clearly dont make sense. The 10pm curfew is one. Uni students returning, and almost immediately being told that they would be taught on the internet. Some areas with very high infection rates are being omitted from the appropriate level of restrictions.
As has been said, he can open or close when they feel the time is right.Id like to see some balls from Boris and go against the science.Other countries seem to just about get by, but I suspect their populations have a little more wisdom than ours. We have been known for a long time as a country full of unhealthy folks, and idiots. Example, how they act abroad,Spain in particular. They won’t be doing that again though.That was knocked on the head before the virus emerged.
But you wont hear of any criticism of them, and you seem to be claiming that the government havent put a foot wrong.
Curfew. Imo, what is the norm is for the pubs to kick out,straight to a junk fast food shop, or restaurant. Big numbers milling about , great for spreading the virus, especially as most will be tanked up by then.I think he’ll put closing back to normal and let the lowest risk get on with it. Very few will get ill. Those who are vulnerable should know that by now, and not even be there.Its not about controlling the virus, it’s about those that will get sick. Don’t believe what you here otherwise.
So the curfew was pointless.
I don’t think you realise what herd immunity is. Again, not an exact science, but you’re not including the vulnerable in the forecast.
I think I do. Herd immunity is not a solution where people become re-infected. Not sure what forecast you are talking about.
On my patch, folks go to the pubs and restaurants in a reasonable number, and follow what they should do. They’re helping the local businesses survive. It’s unfortunate if someone lives in a s hite area, but those folks are only shooting themselves in the foot, and will be paying for it out of their own pockets in the future. They won’t realise that though. It’s going to be mighty interesting to see the local authorities taking over. Closing local buisnesses is going to be interesting while there hospitals could potentially overflow. Then there’s the issue of if they have to lockdown. Cap in hand to the Chancellor I’d expect. This all sounds rather dangerous. Track and trace. So it’s £12 Billion if you believe the figures.Id like to see some of this allocated money and donations to the WHO, and other organisations audited in the future. Following the money trail for vaccines if they ever arrive. Strange how Bill Gates is always grinning when he’s interviewed. Most odd. So tracking and tracing involves mostly 8out of 10 with no symptoms, their contacts, and then contacts of them and so on. So you end up with hundreds of work isolating when they’re fighting fit. They have bills to pay etc.It sounds like a wonderful project for the economy. F..k tracking and tracing, testing is the wtg. How many of the highly publicised agriculture workers or factory staff have become ill or died. Newspaper s hite, move on that’s old news. Suited us then. The death rate will likely be below 1% when all done and dusted. Covid 19 deaths this year lies 24th in most causes of death in the U.K. And that includes all the care home and elderly deaths. I won’t be s hitting my pants anytime soon.
A very foolish view.
The media and the world leaders are just puppets to the globalists. I’m sure they aren’t in on anything. That’s why I want to see Boris go against popular beliefs.F..k the science. People die all the time, through this and that. There’s talk of throwing in flu cases in the numbers too. Lol. Flu kills quite a few kids worldwide.With cooler weather, the virus lingers for longer,more transmissions, more cases, but so what. If the numbers don’t involve the vulnerable, who cares. But, then there’s the idiots. Or those very intelligent kids I noticed when I was growing up. It’s surprising how most lacked common sense. They would definitely struggle to leave a pub in an orderly fashion, and then f..k off home.
No wonder you never answer questions.
Back to where it all started, Wuhan. Purely propaganda. Look how efficient we are building new isolation units/ hospitals.When there were numerous large buildings that could have been easily converted. Then they have one patient waving goodbye to a dozen doctors and nurses. They were so efficient, that they got everybody that had a temperature out of their homes, then into isolation. So very efficient, that they disinfected their streets constantly, but couldn’t manage to disinfect one single coffin, obviously because the person inside was so highly contagious😱 that even their family members weren’t allowed to the funerals, even though they were healthy. Then as stated before, the WHO announce in June that it might be advisable to wear a mask.The experts, when the virus has been on the go since the end of 2019.
@chilling I think you're right, best leave @HAYSIE play on his own posting cuttings from the newspaper. All he does is point the finger and mock. I've yet to see him offer any kind of solution so I'll be ignoring him from now on.
@chilling I think you're right, best leave @HAYSIE play on his own posting cuttings from the newspaper. All he does is point the finger and mock. I've yet to see him offer any kind of solution so I'll be ignoring him from now on.
There's an old saying. You can't teach stupid.
I dont suppose that you are able to point to one or two things that I have said that you think are stupid?
Comments
Far more interesting than anything happening in Wales.
China being a “ westernised “ communist country.
They can rule with an iron fist when needed.
They could probably test the whole of the country if they so wished.
Over here in the U.K, there’s a big fuss if you get pulled over in a car by the police, etc.
Remember Tiananmen Square?
In the last 20 years or so,millions of Chinese citizens have been brought up into the middle classes,those have never experienced a recession.
Foreclosures are skyrocketing, world demand must be falling off. Never believe their figures.
I‘ll save my China stuff for another day, although, if you fail to see what’s going on in the world regarding China,their might, their weakness, countries doing trade with them,countries looking to cut trade with them,your beloved Euro Zone are now the piggy in the middle.
The USA distancing themselves from Europe,dont blame them.
I will just ignore the above nonsense, except to say that it is not my beloved EU, I just think that along with around half the country, that the decision to leave was a bad one.
Take a guess at how many cases of COVID-19 in the U.K. I’ve upped my guess to a couple of million cases.Whats yours? The cases reported daily are new, if they are to be believed.
Why would they exaggerate?
Do You think that the Government lies about the number of new cases?
That’s why thousands here and there don’t mean an awful lot. Apart from pressure on the hospitals in any particular area.
There are now more cases in hospital than there were when we had the full lockdown.
So why havent we got another one?
How can you say that thousands of cases dont matter when a percentage of them will result in death?
So, you haven’t given your position on opening up or locking down.
I am not the Government.
You like to mock any opening up, and like to mock any lockdowns.
Not true I would just like to see a logical explanation for why?
For instance Oliver Dowden was on Sky News yesterday defending the curfew.
The reason he was asked to defend it was due to the very low number of new cases which are attributed to the hospitality industry.
When asked for the reason why we have a curfew in pubs and restaurants, he referred to a USA report.
Leaving aside the reason why our Government would be influenced by an American study.
This study was done in July.
Yet our Government encouraged many millions of people to visit pubs and restaurants, during August.
So what has changed in pubs and restaurants since August?
Are the Government wrong now, or were they wrong in August>
What makes them more risky after 10pm?
Many people have pointed out that many people leaving pubs at the same time is more likely to increase infection rates, than reduce them.
You do realise that track and trace will always be a “ token gesture” if a country is full of the virus?
It would seem really foolish to spend £12billion on a token gesture.
If the country was full of the virus we would have herd immunity.
They were employing 12,000 call centre staff until recently, seems a lot for a token gesture.
Why would Boris want a world beating system if it was only a token gesture
Local Authorities already have contract tracing departments set up for tracing STDs, which may well have proved to be more efficient
That would only ever work for a country with few cases.
Really.
Logically the test and trace increases in importance as the number of cases rise.
If I was the Guv, I’d say every man, women and kid for themselves.
Everybody knows the score by now.
Fortunately you arent.
Open everything up, wear masks where required, and kick on.
I’ve put up a Wailing Wall for you, but you’re not using it.
Never, ever forget, WE, ARE ALL, IN IT 2GETHER lmao.
£12 billion scheme headed by Baroness Harding not keeping up, Sage said
Testing delays, poor rates of adherence and low levels of engagement to blame
As the numbers of infections increase, so must the Test, Track and Trace scheme
Report piles pressure on the Conservative peer in charge, Baroness Harding
The £12 billion programme will 'further decline' unless it grows at the same rate as the epidemic, the scientific advisory group warned in documents released on Monday.
Boris Johnson has promised the scheme would be 'world beating', while experts and politicians alike see it as a major way of reducing the severity of restrictions imposed during the crisis.
The scheme's success only seems to have worsened since the Sage document was written.
Figures from last week showed NHS Test And Trace in England had suffered its worst week for the proportion of contacts it successfully manages to track down.
Only 68.6% of close contacts of individuals who have tested positive for Covid-19 were reached in the week ending September 30, the lowest weekly percentage since the scheme began.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8832919/Sage-experts-say-Test-Trace-having-marginal-impact-tackling-virus.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/britain-faces-40bn-a-year-tax-rises-to-stop-debt-spiralling/ar-BB19Xn8O?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/thousands-of-vulnerable-disabled-people-face-benefit-cuts-during-pandemic/ar-BB19WNKm?ocid=msedgntp
Ministers ignored warnings that the 10 pm pub curfew would have "marginal impact" on the spread of coronavirus, official documents have revealed.
A record of SAGE recommendations from September, released last night, revealed that the top scientists advising the government expressed scepticism about the measure - which has been criticised by pub owners, local council leaders and scientists.
But despite the scepticism, ministers went ahead an introduced the scheme angering their own backbenchers and raising serious questions about the influence of scientific advice on Government policy.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/no-10-ignored-warning-that-10pm-pub-curfew-would-have-marginal-impact-on-coronavirus-spread/ar-BB19XEX6?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/dozens-of-tory-mps-set-to-vote-against-government-s-lockdown-restrictions/ar-BB19X8k2?ocid=msedgntp
The first is that the government’s panel of scientific advisors have presented a package of measures it says must be introduced in order to suppress the exponential rise of the virus, and Boris Johnson has thought better of it.
The second is that there’s a now a brand new “3 Tier system” for managing local lockdowns, and that when the new system was announced by Boris Johnson on live television, the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, made sure he put on record that it was his view that the third tier doesn’t go far enough.
And it was right at the end of the press conference, that the Sage advice was published. That it was their view a two or three week lockdown should be introduced “immediately”, and that Johnson disagreed.
It’s still slightly unsettling that evidently Johnson does still seem to think that it responds to his now unimaginably tiresome puerile schtick. We were invited, once again, to “squash” the rate of transmission. For some months now, I have been desperately trying to think precisely who it is that Covid era Boris reminds me of, and I think I now finally have it. It is the very much former BP boss, Paul Hayward, who somewhat memorably spoke of wanting to “get my life back” a few days after one of his oil rigs had exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, killing eleven people and turning an entire ocean black. A couple of days later, he would be photographed taking part in a sailing race.
It’s also especially revealing that tens of thousands of deaths are not considered the kind of thing worth suppressing the jester act over. A few years ago, I happened to be in the House of Commons for one of his “resignation” speeches. The Churchill impression was out in force that day. The finger-pointing, the jaw-jabbing, the tragic grandiosity. But then, the subject matter that day was himself, and that stuff really matters.
This was just, you know, some pubs are going to shut early somewhere or other in the north, I’m not doing the full lockdown because I can’t be bothered with the hassle, and if it all carries on spreading then it’ll be up to the mayor of Doncaster to sort it all out.
It was, as responses to a re-emerging pandemic go, very much a case of “will this do?” And unfortunately for us, it is very, very much a case of unfortunately it will have to
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-is-as-serious-as-it-was-in-march-the-only-difference-is-boris-johnson-isn-t-taking-it-seriously/ar-BB19XfDl?ocid=msedgntp
Chris Green, pictured, MP for Bolton West and Atherton was the parliamentary private secretary for the leader of the House of Lords, Baroness Evans.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
SAGE put forward two dozen suggestions about how to navigate through a second wave of the pandemic
Many of which fell on deaf ears - including national 'circuit-breaker' and warnings 10pm curfew won't work
Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth said revelations in paper dated September 21 were 'alarming'
Number 10 was today blasted for not 'following the science' after bombshell documents showed ministers shunned a number of recommendations by their expert advisers before unveiling the latest suite of lockdown measures.
The Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) put forward two dozen suggestions about how to navigate the country through a second wave of the pandemic in September - many of which fell on deaf ears.
Top of the list was a national 'circuit-breaker', which would've seen the country revert to a spring-level lockdown for about a month to bring the outbreak under control. But it was overruled by Boris Johnson amid fears it would 'shatter' the already wounded economy.
Files released today revealed scientists also told the Government:
Test and Trace is only having 'marginal impact' on curtailing the epidemic and if it doesn't get up to speed quickly it'll 'decline further in future';
Ordering everyone who is able to work from home to do so could reduce the R by between 0.2 and 0.4;
Closing gyms only has 'low to moderate' impact on Covid-19's spread and may 'limit access to exercise for physical and mental' wellbeing;
Mandatory masks in offices and schools would help curb the virus' spread, particularly when social distancing is harder. Evidence suggests face coverings reduce viral exposure, leading to less severe symptoms;
Shutting universities and switching all students to online-only courses would drag down the R rate by up to 0.5 and have very little downsides;
Encouraging high-risk people to stay in their homes would have 'low impact' on the virus' spread but 'moderate impact' on the number of deaths and hospitalisations;
Limiting people from travelling more than 5miles from their homes could have 'moderate' benefit, although communicating and enforcing the policy is 'likely to be very complicated'.
Bombshell minutes from a SAGE meeting presented a shortlist of options including a national 'circuit breaker' lockdown (left). England's Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty and Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance (pictured today in Downing Street) have been steering the Government through the pandemic
10pm pub curfews don't work
Slapping curfews on pubs has barely any effect on Covid-19, the Government's advisers warned last month.
SAGE warned a curfew on pubs would only have a 'marginal impact' - but closing them entirely could slash the R significantly
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8833969/What-SAGE-scientists-REALLY-told-Boris-Johnson-10pm-pubs-curfew-wont-work.html
Graham Medley from Sage and Matt Keeling from SPI-M are suggesting a two-week lockdown over half-term
Labour leader Keir Starmer said shutdown could be timed to take place over half-term to minimise disruption
He said that such an extreme measure was needed to bring the second wave of the coronavirus under control
Sage scientists had called for two or three week 'circuit breaker' lockdown at a meeting back on September 21
But the PM defied their advice and unveiled a new local 'Three Tier' lockdown system for England on Monday
https://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2020/10/13/7644029512751102114/964x580_MP4_7644029512751102114.mp4
Graham Medley from Sage and Matt Keeling from the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling are suggesting a two-week lockdown over half-term. The professors, whose findings will be released on Wednesday, claim between 3,000 and 107,000 deaths could stopped by January if Boris Johnson (left, at No 10 on Tuesday) imposes the measure. It comes after Sir Keir (centre, on Tuesday night) demanded Britain be plunged into a nationwide 'circuit-breaker' as soon as possible as he accused the Prime Minister of losing control of the pandemic. The Labour leader said a complete shutdown lasting two to three weeks could be timed to take place over half-term to minimise disruption but warned 'sacrifices' would have to be made to get the virus back under control. Meanwhile Britain recorded more than 100 coronavirus deaths (right) for the first time in four months today as officials announced 143 more victims. Department of Health statistics show the grim milestone has not been hit since June 17, when 110 lab-confirmed fatalities were added to the tally.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8835895/Labours-Keir-Starmer-demands-immediate-nationwide-circuit-breaker-lockdown.html
I’m not confused, but you apparently are.Although some might appear to be questions, but they’re not.
So, exaggerating what numbers?
The numbers given out by the government and the worldometer are PER DAY.
Whether it’s 5K 10K 20K new cases PER DAY,so take a good guess on how many cases there might be out there. It may require a little thinking. Can you cope with that?
To my knowledge, we are testing nearly the same amount as Spain and France combined.
That will equal more cases found, although 8 out of 10 testing positive have no symptoms.
You can’t compare March to now, as it’s not like for like.
More is known about the virus, there are more treatments etc.
There could be overflow from hospitals,but the March lockdown was mainly due to a scientists prediction of 250K deaths in a fairly short time. Boris not being an expert on viruses,as most aren’t,took the correct decision.Also, we now know who really are the vulnerable.
You’re not in the government? Thank f..k for that. You always have a lot to say, but f..k all ideas, well played.
There are many reasons for opening up and locking down,as it’s not an exact science.
The scientists are supposedly experts with the virus, but their input has to be applied to other things,such as folks in hospital waiting on ops etc, bed capacity,the economy,etc.
Boris has to try and pick what might work the best to suit all the above, not just knee jerk on the advice of a scientist.Taking info from studies from over countries has got to be a good thing,more info the better. That’s were our better forms of treatment came from.
As has been said, he can open or close when they feel the time is right.Id like to see some balls from Boris and go against the science.Other countries seem to just about get by, but I suspect their populations have a little more wisdom than ours. We have been known for a long time as a country full of unhealthy folks, and idiots. Example, how they act abroad,Spain in particular.
They won’t be doing that again though.That was knocked on the head before the virus emerged.
Curfew.
Imo, what is the norm is for the pubs to kick out,straight to a junk fast food shop, or restaurant.
Big numbers milling about , great for spreading the virus, especially as most will be tanked up by then.I think he’ll put closing back to normal and let the lowest risk get on with it. Very few will get ill. Those who are vulnerable should know that by now, and not even be there.Its not about controlling the virus, it’s about those that will get sick. Don’t believe what you here otherwise.
I don’t think you realise what herd immunity is. Again, not an exact science, but you’re not including the vulnerable in the forecast.
On my patch, folks go to the pubs and restaurants in a reasonable number, and follow what they should do. They’re helping the local businesses survive. It’s unfortunate if someone lives in a s hite area, but those folks are only shooting themselves in the foot, and will be paying for it out of their own pockets in the future. They won’t realise that though.
It’s going to be mighty interesting to see the local authorities taking over.
Closing local buisnesses is going to be interesting while there hospitals could potentially overflow.
Then there’s the issue of if they have to lockdown. Cap in hand to the Chancellor I’d expect.
This all sounds rather dangerous.
Track and trace.
So it’s £12 Billion if you believe the figures.Id like to see some of this allocated money and donations to the WHO, and other organisations audited in the future. Following the money trail for vaccines if they ever arrive. Strange how Bill Gates is always grinning when he’s interviewed. Most odd.
So tracking and tracing involves mostly 8out of 10 with no symptoms, their contacts, and then contacts of them and so on. So you end up with hundreds of work isolating when they’re fighting fit. They have bills to pay etc.It sounds like a wonderful project for the economy. F..k tracking and tracing, testing is the wtg. How many of the highly publicised agriculture workers or factory staff have become ill or died. Newspaper s hite, move on that’s old news. Suited us then.
The death rate will likely be below 1% when all done and dusted. Covid 19 deaths this year lies 24th in most causes of death in the U.K. And that includes all the care home and elderly deaths.
I won’t be s hitting my pants anytime soon.
The media and the world leaders are just puppets to the globalists. I’m sure they aren’t in on anything. That’s why I want to see Boris go against popular beliefs.F..k the science. People die all the time, through this and that. There’s talk of throwing in flu cases in the numbers too. Lol.
Flu kills quite a few kids worldwide.With cooler weather, the virus lingers for longer,more transmissions, more cases, but so what. If the numbers don’t involve the vulnerable, who cares.
But, then there’s the idiots. Or those very intelligent kids I noticed when I was growing up.
It’s surprising how most lacked common sense. They would definitely struggle to leave a pub in an orderly fashion, and then f..k off home.
Back to where it all started, Wuhan.
Purely propaganda.
Look how efficient we are building new isolation units/ hospitals.When there were numerous large buildings that could have been easily converted.
Then they have one patient waving goodbye to a dozen doctors and nurses.
They were so efficient, that they got everybody that had a temperature out of their homes, then into isolation. So very efficient, that they disinfected their streets constantly, but couldn’t manage to disinfect one single coffin, obviously because the person inside was so highly contagious😱
that even their family members weren’t allowed to the funerals, even though they were healthy.
Then as stated before, the WHO announce in June that it might be advisable to wear a mask.The experts, when the virus has been on the go since the end of 2019.
Take out the sick elderly from the U.K. total that died early on, then the death rate would likely be about 4000.Nowhere near other causes of death.
Boris needs to turn this around and get folks back to work.
@HAYSIE , like I said, don’t bother underlining anything, as I’ve no more to say on the subject.
The constant questions mean you are indeed confused.
Stay, Whatever.
There's an old saying. You can't teach stupid.
That old saying, is it a Chinese one?