One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
This is what some Nigel Farage fans think of the penalty situation. I'd like to say it's isolated comments from a minority, however I'd be lying. Imagine being this dense and bigoted?
Gary Lineker slams BBC show's joke about football fans being racist
According to reports, the Have I Got News For You Twitter account posted following the controversy: “Amid calls to ban racist football fans from grounds indefinitely, clubs argue they’d struggle to survive with attendances of 12.”
Match Of The Day host Lineker has taken issue with the comment, which has since been removed.
“Joke or not, this is wide of the goal,” tweeted the former footballer. “The vast majority of football fans deplore the racism of the tiny, very tiny, minority.”
You need to have a look at the stat's relating to penalty Shoot-outs, rather than the Premiership matches. Penalties in Premiership matches don't have as much pressure on them, because there is still usually time left to play, and you can follow up a penalty and score, as Kane did against Denmark.
There is so much more pressure in Play-Off, and even more in Sudden Death situations, especially when the player has to score to stay in.
I'm not saying it will turn out to be 50/50 in that pressure situation (I'm sure you will enjoy researching it ).... but I'm sure you will find it will be a lot closer to 50/50 than the premiership stat's...... after all England ended up being 40/60 sadly....... and Italy 60/40........I'm sure you can workout the % total.
Gareth Southgate and his Coaches, who work closely with the Team, are far more qualified than any of us, to know who should take the penalties. Personally I would have liked to see the players strike the ball harder into the corners (like the Swiss did against France), but they still might have missed anyway......
All the players would have had to take a Penalty eventually if it had gone to Sudden Death and the penalties had kept being missed or scored at the same rate ....... that really would have been worth watching, just to see who could handle the PRESSURE
Kevin Pressman (Sheff Wed's goalkeeper) was a great Penalty taker. He used to virtually take the Net off, but he only got to take them in Penalty Shoot-outs
Why do you think that England have such a bad record in penalty shootouts in both the World Cup, and the Euros. They have won one out of five in the Euros, and one from four in the World Cup. So two out of nine. It cant be luck.
You need to have a look at the stat's relating to penalty Shoot-outs, rather than the Premiership matches. Penalties in Premiership matches don't have as much pressure on them, because there is still usually time left to play, and you can follow up a penalty and score, as Kane did against Denmark.
There is so much more pressure in Play-Off, and even more in Sudden Death situations, especially when the player has to score to stay in.
I'm not saying it will turn out to be 50/50 in that pressure situation (I'm sure you will enjoy researching it ).... but I'm sure you will find it will be a lot closer to 50/50 than the premiership stat's...... after all England ended up being 40/60 sadly....... and Italy 60/40........I'm sure you can workout the % total.
Gareth Southgate and his Coaches, who work closely with the Team, are far more qualified than any of us, to know who should take the penalties. Personally I would have liked to see the players strike the ball harder into the corners (like the Swiss did against France), but they still might have missed anyway......
All the players would have had to take a Penalty eventually if it had gone to Sudden Death and the penalties had kept being missed or scored at the same rate ....... that really would have been worth watching, just to see who could handle the PRESSURE
Kevin Pressman (Sheff Wed's goalkeeper) was a great Penalty taker. He used to virtually take the Net off, but he only got to take them in Penalty Shoot-outs
Why do you think that England have such a bad record in penalty shootouts in both the World Cup, and the Euros. They have won one out of five in the Euros, and one from four in the World Cup. So two out of nine. It cant be luck.
'BOTTLE'
.......or the Lack of it.
I don't think it helps that everybody, TV Pundits, Press and Media, go on about how bad we are too
You need to have a look at the stat's relating to penalty Shoot-outs, rather than the Premiership matches. Penalties in Premiership matches don't have as much pressure on them, because there is still usually time left to play, and you can follow up a penalty and score, as Kane did against Denmark.
There is so much more pressure in Play-Off, and even more in Sudden Death situations, especially when the player has to score to stay in.
I'm not saying it will turn out to be 50/50 in that pressure situation (I'm sure you will enjoy researching it ).... but I'm sure you will find it will be a lot closer to 50/50 than the premiership stat's...... after all England ended up being 40/60 sadly....... and Italy 60/40........I'm sure you can workout the % total.
Gareth Southgate and his Coaches, who work closely with the Team, are far more qualified than any of us, to know who should take the penalties. Personally I would have liked to see the players strike the ball harder into the corners (like the Swiss did against France), but they still might have missed anyway......
All the players would have had to take a Penalty eventually if it had gone to Sudden Death and the penalties had kept being missed or scored at the same rate ....... that really would have been worth watching, just to see who could handle the PRESSURE
Kevin Pressman (Sheff Wed's goalkeeper) was a great Penalty taker. He used to virtually take the Net off, but he only got to take them in Penalty Shoot-outs
Why do you think that England have such a bad record in penalty shootouts in both the World Cup, and the Euros. They have won one out of five in the Euros, and one from four in the World Cup. So two out of nine. It cant be luck.
'BOTTLE'
.......or the Lack of it.
I don't think it helps that everybody, TV Pundits, Press and Media, go on about how bad we are too
Surely not. I think the shootouts started in the 1970s. So can you seriously argue that successive England teams over more than 40 years, suffered from a lack of bottle? I also think that to criticise the media etc, is a red herring. Particularly when the facts bear out how bad they are, and such criticism should make professional sports people more determined. I would accept that there are probably a small number of players in every team that dont have the bottle to take a penalty under the added pressure of a penalty shootout. Although thats where the manager comes in. He is able to initially choose the 5 most capable players. While I think many people will consider Gareth Southgate to have been an inspirational manager, whose tactics have been excellent, during the tournament. Many of the same people were surprised by his choice of players to take the penalties. I think that many managers in the same position may have chosen to rely on experience. It is obviously impossible to replicate the situation at the training ground, but I do think that teams that have a nucleus of players that take penalties regularly for their clubs, will have an advantage. I would doubt that if Gareth Southgate was able to turn the clock back, that he would make the same choice of players. Particularly when it came to the fifth penalty.
You need to have a look at the stat's relating to penalty Shoot-outs, rather than the Premiership matches. Penalties in Premiership matches don't have as much pressure on them, because there is still usually time left to play, and you can follow up a penalty and score, as Kane did against Denmark.
There is so much more pressure in Play-Off, and even more in Sudden Death situations, especially when the player has to score to stay in.
I'm not saying it will turn out to be 50/50 in that pressure situation (I'm sure you will enjoy researching it ).... but I'm sure you will find it will be a lot closer to 50/50 than the premiership stat's...... after all England ended up being 40/60 sadly....... and Italy 60/40........I'm sure you can workout the % total.
Gareth Southgate and his Coaches, who work closely with the Team, are far more qualified than any of us, to know who should take the penalties. Personally I would have liked to see the players strike the ball harder into the corners (like the Swiss did against France), but they still might have missed anyway......
All the players would have had to take a Penalty eventually if it had gone to Sudden Death and the penalties had kept being missed or scored at the same rate ....... that really would have been worth watching, just to see who could handle the PRESSURE
Kevin Pressman (Sheff Wed's goalkeeper) was a great Penalty taker. He used to virtually take the Net off, but he only got to take them in Penalty Shoot-outs
Why do you think that England have such a bad record in penalty shootouts in both the World Cup, and the Euros. They have won one out of five in the Euros, and one from four in the World Cup. So two out of nine. It cant be luck.
'BOTTLE'
.......or the Lack of it.
I don't think it helps that everybody, TV Pundits, Press and Media, go on about how bad we are too
Using this list, and adding Harry Maguire might have been a better choice?
Team Primary penalty taker Secondary penalty taker(s) Arsenal Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang Alexandre Lacazette Aston Villa Anwar El Ghazi Jack Grealish, Conor Hourihane Brighton Neal Maupay Jay Rodriguez, Pascal Gross Burnley Ashley Barnes Chris Wood Chelsea Jorginho Timo Werner Crystal Palace Luka Milivojevic Christian Benteke, Jordan Ayew Everton Gylfi Sigurdsson James Rodriguez Fulham Aleksandar Mitrovic Tom Cairney Leeds Mateusz Klich Patrick Bamford Leicester City Jamie Vardy James Maddison Liverpool Mohamed Salah James Milner Manchester City Kevin De Bruyne Raheem Sterling, Sergio Aguero, Manchester United Bruno Fernandes Marcus Rashford Newcastle Matt Ritchie Callum Wilson Sheffield United Oliver Norwood Billy Sharp, David McGoldrick Southampton Danny Ings James Ward-Prowse Tottenham Harry Kane Dele Alli, Heung-min Son West Brom Charlie Austin Kenneth Zohore West Ham Mark Noble Michail Antonio Wolves Raul Jimenez Ruben Neves
One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
No. In theory a taker could have nearly all his pens touched by the keeper. They will still count though. The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons. All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place. Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs. They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record. For me, it’s 50-50.
One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
No. In theory a taker could have nearly all his pens touched by the keeper. They will still count though. The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons. All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place. Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs. They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record. For me, it’s 50-50.
Well, duhhh, yes of course.
50/50 to score a penalty in a shootout? Are you serious? Penalties are not 'luck' & there is a reason we have a shocking record in them.
I either flop a full house or I don't.... 50/50 innit
One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
No. In theory a taker could have nearly all his pens touched by the keeper. They will still count though. The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons. All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place. Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs. They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record. For me, it’s 50-50.
Well, duhhh, yes of course.
50/50 to score a penalty in a shootout? Are you serious? Penalties are not 'luck' & there is a reason we have a shocking record in them.
I either flop a full house or I don't.... 50/50 innit
One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
No. In theory a taker could have nearly all his pens touched by the keeper. They will still count though. The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons. All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place. Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs. They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record. For me, it’s 50-50.
Well, duhhh, yes of course.
50/50 to score a penalty in a shootout? Are you serious? Penalties are not 'luck' & there is a reason we have a shocking record in them.
I either flop a full house or I don't.... 50/50 innit
What was the combined odds that the three lads would miss penalties in the shootout?
You need to have a look at the stat's relating to penalty Shoot-outs, rather than the Premiership matches. Penalties in Premiership matches don't have as much pressure on them, because there is still usually time left to play, and you can follow up a penalty and score, as Kane did against Denmark.
There is so much more pressure in Play-Off, and even more in Sudden Death situations, especially when the player has to score to stay in.
I'm not saying it will turn out to be 50/50 in that pressure situation (I'm sure you will enjoy researching it ).... but I'm sure you will find it will be a lot closer to 50/50 than the premiership stat's...... after all England ended up being 40/60 sadly....... and Italy 60/40........I'm sure you can workout the % total.
Gareth Southgate and his Coaches, who work closely with the Team, are far more qualified than any of us, to know who should take the penalties. Personally I would have liked to see the players strike the ball harder into the corners (like the Swiss did against France), but they still might have missed anyway......
All the players would have had to take a Penalty eventually if it had gone to Sudden Death and the penalties had kept being missed or scored at the same rate ....... that really would have been worth watching, just to see who could handle the PRESSURE
Kevin Pressman (Sheff Wed's goalkeeper) was a great Penalty taker. He used to virtually take the Net off, but he only got to take them in Penalty Shoot-outs
Why do you think that England have such a bad record in penalty shootouts in both the World Cup, and the Euros. They have won one out of five in the Euros, and one from four in the World Cup. So two out of nine. It cant be luck.
'BOTTLE'
.......or the Lack of it.
I don't think it helps that everybody, TV Pundits, Press and Media, go on about how bad we are too
Using this list, and adding Harry Maguire might have been a better choice?
Team Primary penalty taker Secondary penalty taker(s) Arsenal Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang Alexandre Lacazette Aston Villa Anwar El Ghazi Jack Grealish, Conor Hourihane Brighton Neal Maupay Jay Rodriguez, Pascal Gross Burnley Ashley Barnes Chris Wood Chelsea Jorginho Timo Werner Crystal Palace Luka Milivojevic Christian Benteke, Jordan Ayew Everton Gylfi Sigurdsson James Rodriguez Fulham Aleksandar Mitrovic Tom Cairney Leeds Mateusz Klich Patrick Bamford Leicester City Jamie Vardy James Maddison Liverpool Mohamed Salah James Milner Manchester City Kevin De Bruyne Raheem Sterling, Sergio Aguero, Manchester United Bruno Fernandes Marcus Rashford Newcastle Matt Ritchie Callum Wilson Sheffield United Oliver Norwood Billy Sharp, David McGoldrick Southampton Danny Ings James Ward-Prowse Tottenham Harry Kane Dele Alli, Heung-min Son West Brom Charlie Austin Kenneth Zohore West Ham Mark Noble Michail Antonio Wolves Raul Jimenez Ruben Neves
Don't know how old this is but Sterling is definitely not No2 taker for City. He might have been for a short time but he's well down the pecking order now.
KDB, Gundogan, Jesus, Rodri and Mahrez, as a minimum, are all ahead of him.
Comments
Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results.
How they take them, is surely irrelevant.
You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%.
The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them.
For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
According to reports, the Have I Got News For You Twitter account posted following the controversy: “Amid calls to ban racist football fans from grounds indefinitely, clubs argue they’d struggle to survive with attendances of 12.”
Match Of The Day host Lineker has taken issue with the comment, which has since been removed.
“Joke or not, this is wide of the goal,” tweeted the former footballer. “The vast majority of football fans deplore the racism of the tiny, very tiny, minority.”
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/gary-lineker-bbc-football-racist-101613914.html
They have won one out of five in the Euros, and one from four in the World Cup.
So two out of nine.
It cant be luck.
That would be seen as a challenge for Le Tissier.
Age of Maguire,Kane,Grealish, Sterling, compared to the others.
.......or the Lack of it.
I don't think it helps that everybody, TV Pundits, Press and Media, go on about how bad we are too
I think the shootouts started in the 1970s.
So can you seriously argue that successive England teams over more than 40 years, suffered from a lack of bottle?
I also think that to criticise the media etc, is a red herring.
Particularly when the facts bear out how bad they are, and such criticism should make professional sports people more determined.
I would accept that there are probably a small number of players in every team that dont have the bottle to take a penalty under the added pressure of a penalty shootout.
Although thats where the manager comes in.
He is able to initially choose the 5 most capable players.
While I think many people will consider Gareth Southgate to have been an inspirational manager, whose tactics have been excellent, during the tournament.
Many of the same people were surprised by his choice of players to take the penalties.
I think that many managers in the same position may have chosen to rely on experience.
It is obviously impossible to replicate the situation at the training ground, but I do think that teams that have a nucleus of players that take penalties regularly for their clubs, will have an advantage.
I would doubt that if Gareth Southgate was able to turn the clock back, that he would make the same choice of players.
Particularly when it came to the fifth penalty.
Team Primary penalty taker Secondary penalty taker(s)
Arsenal Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang Alexandre Lacazette
Aston Villa Anwar El Ghazi Jack Grealish, Conor Hourihane
Brighton Neal Maupay Jay Rodriguez, Pascal Gross
Burnley Ashley Barnes Chris Wood
Chelsea Jorginho Timo Werner
Crystal Palace Luka Milivojevic Christian Benteke, Jordan Ayew
Everton Gylfi Sigurdsson James Rodriguez
Fulham Aleksandar Mitrovic Tom Cairney
Leeds Mateusz Klich Patrick Bamford
Leicester City Jamie Vardy James Maddison
Liverpool Mohamed Salah James Milner
Manchester City Kevin De Bruyne Raheem Sterling, Sergio Aguero,
Manchester United Bruno Fernandes Marcus Rashford
Newcastle Matt Ritchie Callum Wilson
Sheffield United Oliver Norwood Billy Sharp, David McGoldrick
Southampton Danny Ings James Ward-Prowse
Tottenham Harry Kane Dele Alli, Heung-min Son
West Brom Charlie Austin Kenneth Zohore
West Ham Mark Noble Michail Antonio
Wolves Raul Jimenez Ruben Neves
The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons.
All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place.
Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs.
They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record.
For me, it’s 50-50.
50/50 to score a penalty in a shootout? Are you serious? Penalties are not 'luck' & there is a reason we have a shocking record in them.
I either flop a full house or I don't.... 50/50 innit
50-50.
Decimal Odds
1.56
He might have been for a short time but he's well down the pecking order now.
KDB, Gundogan, Jesus, Rodri and Mahrez, as a minimum, are all ahead of him.