One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
No. In theory a taker could have nearly all his pens touched by the keeper. They will still count though. The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons. All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place. Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs. They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record. For me, it’s 50-50.
Well, duhhh, yes of course.
50/50 to score a penalty in a shootout? Are you serious? Penalties are not 'luck' & there is a reason we have a shocking record in them.
I either flop a full house or I don't.... 50/50 innit
Twenty horses in a race, win or lose therefore 50/50. Should all be even money. Mr Chilling vs Phil Ivey heads up 50/50, dont think so. Harry Kane vs Mr Chilling in penalty shootout, 50/50 never. When the fact is that almost three quarters of penalties taken in penalty shootouts are scored, how could anyone in their right mind continue with the 50/50 argument. That was me being very polite.
So in summary 50.50 is untrue, as almost 75% have been scored. There is no skill involved, but some players score more than others. Thats it for me. I am sitting here thinking why the f...k am I sitting here arguing over nonsense.
One advantage Le Tissier did have over others, was he always had a fresh pair of legs, even after playing for ninety minutes.
You would argue with a sign post. Just taking shootouts almost three quarters are scored. The fact that some players score a higher percentage than others, surely prove that it is a skill.
Just look through as many penalties as you like, upload them on here. Then we can decide how much ‘ skill’ is involved.
This is where we part company. Surely the only way of judging any players skill in penalty taking is by the results. How they take them, is surely irrelevant. You certainly wouldnt expect a manager to choose a penalty taker who has a record of scoring say 60%, over one that looked less skillful, but was scoring over 90%. The players that are usually chosen to take penalties are those that have the most success in scoring from them. For instance if England were involved in a shootout at the World Cup, I would expect Harry McGuire to be close to the top of the list, and above many players considered more skillful than him.
No. In theory a taker could have nearly all his pens touched by the keeper. They will still count though. The same as looking back at a ‘ top strickers’ total over seasons. All those tap ins,ricochets,just being fortunate to being in the right place. Sometimes the striker taking the pens to boost his total,and could get two stabs. They all count,but not all will require any ‘ skill’ .
I think you’re implying you would have more faith in somebody with a better record. For me, it’s 50-50.
Well, duhhh, yes of course.
50/50 to score a penalty in a shootout? Are you serious? Penalties are not 'luck' & there is a reason we have a shocking record in them.
I either flop a full house or I don't.... 50/50 innit
Twenty horses in a race, win or lose therefore 50/50. Should all be even money. Mr Chilling vs Phil Ivey heads up 50/50, dont think so. Harry Kane vs Mr Chilling in penalty shootout, 50/50 never. When the fact is that almost three quarters of penalties taken in penalty shootouts are scored, how could anyone in their right mind continue with the 50/50 argument. That was me being very polite.
So in summary 50.50 is untrue, as almost 75% have been scored. There is no skill involved, but some players score more than others. Thats it for me. I am sitting here thinking why the f...k am I sitting here arguing over nonsense.
Regarding the horse bet. You do your dough or win. ( unless you’re an each way thief) The amount of runners in a race is irrelevant. The odds are for the bookie.
And bookies wouldnt have odds for the teams competing in penalty shootouts? Or odds on individual players scoring from the penalties? Might these odds reflect the players scoring record? Wouldnt the players that are the most skilled in taking penalties score more? And those that are the least skilled score fewer?
There’s probably a very good reason why bookies don’t have odds on shoot outs in play.
I presumed you had checked if they did. I hadn’t checked. I would have thought you would have got all excited and screamed “ Oh yes they do!” Nothing. So you checked.
You may not have noticed, but I posted the odds ages ago.
After this post.
So England have the last penalty in the Euro Final to win it. What are the odds on the last player scoring?
The best odds available on any England player in the German game had it gone to a shootout were 4/11 to score and 4/1 to miss.
The prices to score ranged from 2/11 to 4/11. 4/11 is double 2/11, but no skill involved.
If someone catches Covid, then the only 2 outcomes can be survive or die, right? So it's 50/50 on whether you live or die, correct?
You best inform the experts about your chilling discovery.
You can’t catch COVID . You can catch SARS-Cov-2 . COVID is supposed to be a resulting illness,for some. The government then offered ‘ vaccines’. To which individuals can respond with a no or yes. 50-50.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
Ooo, that sounds like somebody has had too much sun or drink or both🤣 Lefties are an angry bunch. I bet they’re always at the doctors for stress related illnesses.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
We've done ok generally despite lacking a fully reliable taker. Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
We've done ok generally despite lacking a fully reliable taker. Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
How do you know it’s misinformation? You would have to be able to produce proof it is.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
We've done ok generally despite lacking a fully reliable taker. Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
How do you know it’s misinformation? You would have to be able to produce proof it is.
From the guy who says penalties are 50/50....everything you peddle is misinformation.
I might enter the roller tomorrow, cos I'll either win it or I won't. 50/50 innit.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
We've done ok generally despite lacking a fully reliable taker. Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
I’ll give you a ‘ virus’ test. The Pandemic. This will involve a fair amount of questions. Most of it from the media, and from PHE. Up for the challenge?
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
We've done ok generally despite lacking a fully reliable taker. Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
I’ll give you a ‘ virus’ test. The Pandemic. This will involve a fair amount of questions. Most of it from the media, and from PHE. Up for the challenge?
What has this got to do with Roy Keane being totally wrong about what he said?
Good for @HAYSIE challenging @Tikay10 on most posts on the Forum mind you
You accused me of going back to the Stone Age. These stats go back to 2003. Dont know what your point is. The totals showed they scored around 75%. Which does nothing to support your argument. Why would you just try to use one club to prove anything?
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
We've done ok generally despite lacking a fully reliable taker. Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
I’ll give you a ‘ virus’ test. The Pandemic. This will involve a fair amount of questions. Most of it from the media, and from PHE. Up for the challenge?
What has this got to do with Roy Keane being totally wrong about what he said?
Good for @HAYSIE challenging @Tikay10 on most posts on the Forum mind you
I am giving up on this now. There is no hope for him. You cant tell him anything. Despite the weight of opinion telling him he is wrong, he cant seem to grasp it.
The points he is trying to make that are clearly untrue are as follows,
Bookmakers dont offer odds on penalty shootouts, when they very obviously do, and I have posted examples as proof. So this claim is completely untrue.
Secondly, there is no skill in taking penalties. This is obviously not the case, as some players have a higher conversion rate than others. If this was true then all players would convert a similar number of the penalties that they took. That is clearly not the case. This statement is therefore untrue.
Thirdly, a penalty is a 50/50 chance of scoring. This is completely untrue as a much higher percentage are regularly converted. The bookmakers offer a sliding scale of prices for each individual player, I have posted an example. If a penalty was a 50/50 chance every time, then the bookies would surely offer the same price for every player. The price for every player would be around even money. This is clearly not the case. Harry Kane was 2/11 in the example I posted, this would seem to confirm that it was felt that he was more likely to score than the longer priced players. This would also seem to confirm that there is some skill involved. The shorter the price offered, would seem to point to the skill level of that particular player in relation to taking a penalty. The fact that Gareth Southgate seemed to make 2 substitutions at the death purely with the penalties in mind. This would seem to point to the fact that he also wouldnt go along with the last 2 points. If penalties were a 50/50, and no skill involved, why make any substitutions? Although this plan didnt work out, there was a plan. That takes us back to the beginning and Roy Keanes comment, before all the bs was posted. Only an idiot would think that covid comments belong on this thread.
I have just looked back over this thread. I am now more of a believer in the opinion that the lockdowns have affected the mental health of some people.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
Thats perfect. Despite your 50/50 claim, you see 55% as an underachievement? You couldnt make it up.
To think that the true odds of a penalty kick are 50/50 despite all the evidence just has to be a troll. What would happen to the 50/50 odds if you moved the spot back, or put 2 keepers in? It’s quite obvious that just because an event has 2 outcomes it doesn’t mean the odds are 50/50. It’s been pointed about many times in many ways in this thread.
Roy Keane said the other players should have stepped up, we since learned that at least Grealish wanted one but Southgate picked the players. Really isn’t much of a story here.
To think that the true odds of a penalty kick are 50/50 despite all the evidence just has to be a troll. What would happen to the 50/50 odds if you moved the spot back, or put 2 keepers in? It’s quite obvious that just because an event has 2 outcomes it doesn’t mean the odds are 50/50. It’s been pointed about many times in many ways in this thread.
Roy Keane said the other players should have stepped up, we since learned that at least Grealish wanted one but Southgate picked the players. Really isn’t much of a story here.
A troll? I’ll take that as a compliment as I’ve had far worse on here. So what is your method to determine the outcome of a each penalty? Maybe the biominal distribution method, and using the total penalties as a model? With each penalty having the same probability. Different takers, but still twelve yards. Your starting point for each penalty has to be 50-50.Then the expectation is added by whom the taker is. I’m sure most folks are familiar with high percentage takers,but not all have high percentages. Phillips 61%,Mahrez58%,Angel 50%. And these are were Premier players. All above 50% for sure,not forgetting Sterling.
So with only two possibilities on each penalty, you can show me the figures and the working out of your success rate. That’s providing you have one.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
Thats perfect. Despite your 50/50 claim, you see 55% as an underachievement? You couldnt make it up.
You accused me of going back to the Stone Age. These stats go back to 2003. Dont know what your point is. The totals showed they scored around 75%. Which does nothing to support your argument. Why would you just try to use one club to prove anything?
It proves nowt,apart from the guide that you think is in stone as 70+% means f ck all.
Your knowledge of football is akin to your knowledge of science, virology, disease control, medicine etc etc
The square root of fuckall.
I thought City were one of the richest clubs? Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars? Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty. 2years of apparently underachieving
Thats perfect. Despite your 50/50 claim, you see 55% as an underachievement? You couldnt make it up.
🥕for hhyf, on your figures.
You said a penalty is a 50/50. You also posted Man City stats. You claimed their stats for the last 2 years were an underachievement. How can you possibly argue on the one hand that penalties are a 50/50, and on the other hand describe scoring 55% as an underachievement? More nonsense. The lockdowns seem to have affected you more than most.
Comments
4/11 is double 2/11, but no skill involved.
England were not involved in that one, so obviously the average increases. 😜
If someone catches Covid, then the only 2 outcomes can be survive or die, right?
So it's 50/50 on whether you live or die, correct?
You best inform the experts about your chilling discovery.
You can’t catch COVID .
You can catch SARS-Cov-2 .
COVID is supposed to be a resulting illness,for some.
The government then offered ‘ vaccines’.
To which individuals can respond with a no or yes. 50-50.
All the above is allegedly.
The square root of fuckall.
Lefties are an angry bunch. I bet they’re always at the doctors for stress related illnesses.
Are they not supposed to be a squad full of stars?
Maybe in the transfer window,they should spend a few quid on a player that can take a penalty.
2years of apparently underachieving
Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, KDB, Gundogan have all missed for us in the last couple of years. Even the most talented footballers can miss from the spot.
Maybe we should get Ederson on them; he's game to take one and I hear he's been watching videos of TheEdge demonstrating how to be a goalscoring keeper.
Edgerson, if you will.
PS no sun or beer, just pointing out your total lack of knowledge on the subjects you discuss/peddle lies and misinformation about.
You would have to be able to produce proof it is.
I might enter the roller tomorrow, cos I'll either win it or I won't. 50/50 innit.
I like those odds.
This will involve a fair amount of questions.
Most of it from the media, and from PHE.
Up for the challenge?
Good for @HAYSIE challenging @Tikay10 on most posts on the Forum mind you
These stats go back to 2003.
Dont know what your point is.
The totals showed they scored around 75%.
Which does nothing to support your argument.
Why would you just try to use one club to prove anything?
There is no hope for him.
You cant tell him anything.
Despite the weight of opinion telling him he is wrong, he cant seem to grasp it.
The points he is trying to make that are clearly untrue are as follows,
Bookmakers dont offer odds on penalty shootouts, when they very obviously do, and I have posted examples as proof.
So this claim is completely untrue.
Secondly, there is no skill in taking penalties.
This is obviously not the case, as some players have a higher conversion rate than others.
If this was true then all players would convert a similar number of the penalties that they took.
That is clearly not the case.
This statement is therefore untrue.
Thirdly, a penalty is a 50/50 chance of scoring.
This is completely untrue as a much higher percentage are regularly converted.
The bookmakers offer a sliding scale of prices for each individual player, I have posted an example.
If a penalty was a 50/50 chance every time, then the bookies would surely offer the same price for every player.
The price for every player would be around even money.
This is clearly not the case.
Harry Kane was 2/11 in the example I posted, this would seem to confirm that it was felt that he was more likely to score than the longer priced players.
This would also seem to confirm that there is some skill involved.
The shorter the price offered, would seem to point to the skill level of that particular player in relation to taking a penalty.
The fact that Gareth Southgate seemed to make 2 substitutions at the death purely with the penalties in mind.
This would seem to point to the fact that he also wouldnt go along with the last 2 points.
If penalties were a 50/50, and no skill involved, why make any substitutions?
Although this plan didnt work out, there was a plan.
That takes us back to the beginning and Roy Keanes comment, before all the bs was posted.
Only an idiot would think that covid comments belong on this thread.
I have just looked back over this thread.
I am now more of a believer in the opinion that the lockdowns have affected the mental health of some people.
Thats it from me.
Despite your 50/50 claim, you see 55% as an underachievement?
You couldnt make it up.
Roy Keane said the other players should have stepped up, we since learned that at least Grealish wanted one but Southgate picked the players. Really isn’t much of a story here.
So what is your method to determine the outcome of a each penalty?
Maybe the biominal distribution method, and using the total penalties as a model?
With each penalty having the same probability. Different takers, but still twelve yards.
Your starting point for each penalty has to be 50-50.Then the expectation is added by whom the taker is.
I’m sure most folks are familiar with high percentage takers,but not all have high percentages.
Phillips 61%,Mahrez58%,Angel 50%. And these are were Premier players.
All above 50% for sure,not forgetting Sterling.
So with only two possibilities on each penalty, you can show me the figures and the working out of your success rate. That’s providing you have one.
You also posted Man City stats.
You claimed their stats for the last 2 years were an underachievement.
How can you possibly argue on the one hand that penalties are a 50/50, and on the other hand describe scoring 55% as an underachievement?
More nonsense.
The lockdowns seem to have affected you more than most.