Heres one Talon for a starting hand. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance SB Small blind 50.00 50.00 4600.00 BB Big blind 100.00 150.00 1555.00 Your hole cards 2 6 A A The_Don90 Raise 400.00 550.00 1350.00 Middle 1 Fold Middle 2 Fold Dealer Fold SB Fold BB Fold The_Don90 Muck The_Don90 Win 250.00 1600.00 The_Don90 Return 300.00 0.00 1900.00 If you take the AA its a very strong hold em hand and a mistake ive made a number of times since switching to Omaha is over rating it in this type of game. A6 suited gives me a few extra out in drawing to spades. the A2 and 62 are pretty much a load of old poo. Well 62 is ok if its a 345 flop but far from perfect. So not only for my benifit but to another of other hold em players who may like to play Omaha could you maybe give a little more talk on a starting hand like this, as i think it would help a number of people change their Omaha games better. Posted by The_Don90
Thats what talon said mate, yeah i dont really like to raise much pre as most the action is post flop
I realise now though i should be raising my good drawing hands other then that played itself just a shame was against shortstack:P
Talon going to post another couple on here in a bit you will remember one hand just want to see whether i could of got away with it or could have played differently
Hi young gun. lets have a look at this hand at all stages.
Preflop: You have a good strong hand and you do not really want to be playing it 4 handed or if you do you want to be playing it for a very big pot, so i think you really should have raised preflop.With 2 limpers you were probably going to be called anyway but this is the chance of turning a good starting hand into a potential massive coup.
Flop: You did the right thing to bet out with your draw because of the need to build the pot up for if you do hit it. 3/4 pot is probably a bit low because it prices in too many hands at this point but allows a possibly bigger pot with more opponents. I always favour a full pot bet here.
Turn: Again i like the continued strength with the bet again though possibly pot size again would be better. When you get the raise coming back at you you are getting about 6 to 1 to make the call which is easily the right odds with your nut draws.
Interestingly look at your opponents hand at this point. He has the second nuts on the board and a dead hand so he must know at this point that the river has to be amazing for him to win.
As it was your draw came in and you took down a nice pot. If you had raised pre flop and potted the flop you could have increased the pot size and taken down a bit bigger pot.As the cards came down everything was completely standard about the hand and you played it pretty well and very nearly maximised your winnings.
Omaha is a twofold game being about aggression and paranoia. There was nothing on the board to be paranoid about this time but the need for a bit more aggression is probably needed.
I had the pleasure of sharing a table with you last night and was talking to you about preflop aggression and you saw how i was behaving preflop. I was raising quite a few times(strangely normally on your BB) but i was not automatically firing out a c-bet. This allowed me to thin out the fields and lose the minimum when i missed and maximise my winnings when i hit.
Thanks Talon, as i said it really helps your analysis of my hands. although i am getting better understanding each time in particular last night, really helped being at your table and listening to your thoughts and once i did i started gathering some of the loses back
Was fun at the table, think allsorts overated his 2 pairs, although did get a bit of a card rack later on lol
I look forward to playing with you again may play a bit more lately as i think there is more of an edge then in holdem on here
Hand 1. The raise on the flop showed great strength and the flat call behind should fire out some warning bells.So you need to think of possible holdings here. We can immediately rule out the over set which leaves us with flush draw or wrapped straight draw or(this being a 4 card game) both of these.So we know we are ahead at this point but our opponent has a lot of outs.Unless our opponent has QQ the turn is a blank although putting more straight draws on the board.So again we can be quite certain to be ahead here but there are now a lot of cards to dodge.You were right to bet out again and to call the allin.Your opponent had only 7 outs available to him making you about a 6 to 1 favourite to win the pot and you just got unlucky that he hit.But he realised at the time that he was gambling.you played it well and played it right and the result was just the downside of variance but keep doing this and it is a winning play
Hand 2. This is a perfect example of holdem play in an omaha hand.You did the right thing by betting out on the flop with your nut draw.When you were called you have to put your opponent on a range of possible holdings. In this case wweak flush draw, wrap straight draw set or 2 pair.The turn is the worst card possible because although it completes your draw it takes you a long way away from the nuts. You now have 2 options, bet to find out where you are or check, either is acceptable in this case. You chose the first option and as soon as you were raised you should have snap folded because you are now only beating a bad flush or a bluff.
If this were NLHE then you could be pretty certain of being ahead at this point and should be going all the way but in omaha Mr Paranoia should appear and tell you your behind and you should listen to him.You said yourself you knew you were behind and drawing virtually dead but you carried on. The default setting in omaha should be if i think i am behind and drawing thin= FOLD.
thanks talon really appreciate your help again, hand 2 main reason i bet out because pot odds i was going to call if he shoved so thought i would take the initiative here, either way due to his stack and that turn was goin in here
The only question with the hand above, is really should I call or fold, assuming my outs to fh and fd are good.
Is this too big an asuumption?
The one below, I decided the guy on the button was raising almost every pot. So to build the pot, rather than raising myself, I wud limp raise. On the flop, I reckon my hand is strong enough to stack off?
Right not really played any pots topped up a couple of times, and get the best hand ive had in the 30 mins session just straight draws and double suited but person raising has been raising everyhand with not alot tbh
On the flop i figure i may be behind to j9 but think im good with the flush draw, although essentially was a gamble as not played a pot and had to be back at work. Still would like advise, personally i dont mind the pre call. then that flop is good for me so i have gone all in knowing i could also hit although not the nut straight should i have just folded here or called? i think i made the right play as i just wanted to have a gamble this once, but im guessing talon would have folded to flop bet as he said he had the nuts on the flop? also think i had a straight flush possibilty although wba had 1 of those outs which i didnt know
I'd fold in that spot JJ, mainly because your open ended could get you in a bad spot as the flush draw is out. two pair will still be in this spot & so would a set just think its a bit expensive
Knowing Talon he has nut flush draw and maybe top pair top kicker to go with or two pair
Apart from the obvious omission of the possibility of an overset and better flush draw as well as nut straight in your opponents hand you played this perfectly. As it was you were right about all your draws being live which gave you 17 winning outs and 2 more for the split which makes you about 2 to 1 to win the pot. You called off £2-36 to win a pot of £7-60 which is better than 2 to 1 so it was the correct call mathematically in this situation.
Just be aware of the possibility that your opponent might not have a totally dead hand at this point and have redraws as well.
Yes the guy was playing a very aggro game both pre and post flop with some very marginal holdings and you decided to make a stand against him here.If you are going to make a stand this is the perfect hand to do so with 5 nut drawing hands and 1 second nut drawing. For perfections sake it would have been better double suited but still a very strong hand.
You hit the flop very hard with the only weakness being the lack of flush draw. You made the correct call again and got unlucky that is all. With the way he was playing at that time being prepared to pot commit himself with a weak holding preflop and then shoving with a 7 high flush draw it shows the correctness of your play.
On a side note this hand perfectly displays what i have been preaching for a long time. Hands like KQT9( preferably double suited) are brilliant preflop holdings and are ideal raising or calling hands. Too much time preflop raising is based on pocket pairs and nothing else which is marginal at best whereas i would like to see more preflop action with this type of great starting hand.
Cant remember it exactly but knowing my ranges i cant see me betting that flop with less than nut flush draw. If you think it through oesd vs flush draw, flush has 9 outs and oesd has only 6(losing 2 to flushing cards).So for that reason you dont want to play those draws against eachother.
When i bet out and get raised this becomes the easiest fold in the world for you because i would think that a set is definately likely with this betting as well.
Logdon you can only use 3 community cards & have to use your two, if you had ace hearts and another heart then you would have a flush in this case you dont you have a pair(aces) and whatevers on the board here
The thing to remember when playing omaha is that your hand will consist of 2 cards from your hand and 3 from the board. Unlike in holdem where you can play any combination of board and hand cards.For future playing adjust your options so it shows you what hand you actually have, this will make it a lot easier for you to follow
A hand I just played on our current table. I've seen villain in hand play a little close to NLHE. In one hand he called a flop bet with 2nd pair and a 5 high Club draw, called another bet after turning an additional OESD, and called a river bet when he made trips. Definitely got the impression that he's capable of calling down fairly light.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
chirker
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£3.42
BOBBYP1954
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£3.26
Your hole cards
7
7
10
Q
karen80
Call
£0.04
£0.10
£3.70
Talon
Call
£0.04
£0.14
£5.32
Villain
Call
£0.04
£0.18
£9.95
YoungUn
Call
£0.04
£0.22
£3.50
chirker
Call
£0.02
£0.24
£3.40
BOBBYP1954
Check
Flop
3
3
7
chirker
Check
BOBBYP1954
Bet
£0.04
£0.28
£3.22
karen80
Fold
Talon
Call
£0.04
£0.32
£5.28
Villain
Raise
£0.40
£0.72
£9.55
YoungUn
Raise
£1.00
£1.72
£2.50
chirker
Fold
BOBBYP1954
Fold
Talon
Fold
Villain
Call
£0.60
£2.32
£8.95
Turn
J
Villain
Check
Couple of questions. First, is the flop raise particularly necessary? I feel he's reasonably likely to be raising with just a 3, in which case I can only lose to the case 3 or runners to a higher full-house (if he pairs any of his other hole cards he has 3s full which still loses to my 7s full), so is calling an okay play here? It may bring one of the other 2 players in behind and it definitely helps disguise my hand, and I find it very likely that he'll beat into me again on any safe turn?
The other question, as played, can I check back here? It seems very likely now that he just has a 3, so can I give him a free chance at making a weaker FH? If I should bet, how much should it be, considering my stack is slightly more than the pot? Should I have made it £1.20 on the flop to make the pot bigger hence meaning an all-in < pot size on the turn?
Comments
I realise now though i should be raising my good drawing hands other then that played itself just a shame was against shortstack:P
Talon going to post another couple on here in a bit you will remember one hand just want to see whether i could of got away with it or could have played differently
Preflop: You have a good strong hand and you do not really want to be playing it 4 handed or if you do you want to be playing it for a very big pot, so i think you really should have raised preflop.With 2 limpers you were probably going to be called anyway but this is the chance of turning a good starting hand into a potential massive coup.
Flop: You did the right thing to bet out with your draw because of the need to build the pot up for if you do hit it. 3/4 pot is probably a bit low because it prices in too many hands at this point but allows a possibly bigger pot with more opponents. I always favour a full pot bet here.
Turn: Again i like the continued strength with the bet again though possibly pot size again would be better. When you get the raise coming back at you you are getting about 6 to 1 to make the call which is easily the right odds with your nut draws.
Interestingly look at your opponents hand at this point. He has the second nuts on the board and a dead hand so he must know at this point that the river has to be amazing for him to win.
As it was your draw came in and you took down a nice pot. If you had raised pre flop and potted the flop you could have increased the pot size and taken down a bit bigger pot.As the cards came down everything was completely standard about the hand and you played it pretty well and very nearly maximised your winnings.
Omaha is a twofold game being about aggression and paranoia. There was nothing on the board to be paranoid about this time but the need for a bit more aggression is probably needed.
I had the pleasure of sharing a table with you last night and was talking to you about preflop aggression and you saw how i was behaving preflop. I was raising quite a few times(strangely normally on your BB) but i was not automatically firing out a c-bet. This allowed me to thin out the fields and lose the minimum when i missed and maximise my winnings when i hit.
Talon you was here and said this is just standard here but i just wondered whether could have been played differently at all here?
due to his chipsize mainly but still could i have got away from this, maybe bet more on the flop?
Was fun at the table, think allsorts overated his 2 pairs, although did get a bit of a card rack later on lol
I look forward to playing with you again may play a bit more lately as i think there is more of an edge then in holdem on here
Regards
John
Hand 1. The raise on the flop showed great strength and the flat call behind should fire out some warning bells.So you need to think of possible holdings here. We can immediately rule out the over set which leaves us with flush draw or wrapped straight draw or(this being a 4 card game) both of these.So we know we are ahead at this point but our opponent has a lot of outs.Unless our opponent has QQ the turn is a blank although putting more straight draws on the board.So again we can be quite certain to be ahead here but there are now a lot of cards to dodge.You were right to bet out again and to call the allin.Your opponent had only 7 outs available to him making you about a 6 to 1 favourite to win the pot and you just got unlucky that he hit.But he realised at the time that he was gambling.you played it well and played it right and the result was just the downside of variance but keep doing this and it is a winning play
Hand 2. This is a perfect example of holdem play in an omaha hand.You did the right thing by betting out on the flop with your nut draw.When you were called you have to put your opponent on a range of possible holdings. In this case wweak flush draw, wrap straight draw set or 2 pair.The turn is the worst card possible because although it completes your draw it takes you a long way away from the nuts. You now have 2 options, bet to find out where you are or check, either is acceptable in this case. You chose the first option and as soon as you were raised you should have snap folded because you are now only beating a bad flush or a bluff.
If this were NLHE then you could be pretty certain of being ahead at this point and should be going all the way but in omaha Mr Paranoia should appear and tell you your behind and you should listen to him.You said yourself you knew you were behind and drawing virtually dead but you carried on. The default setting in omaha should be if i think i am behind and drawing thin= FOLD.
The only question with the hand above, is really should I call or fold, assuming my outs to fh and fd are good.
Is this too big an asuumption?
The one below, I decided the guy on the button was raising almost every pot. So to build the pot, rather than raising myself, I wud limp raise. On the flop, I reckon my hand is strong enough to stack off?
On the flop i figure i may be behind to j9 but think im good with the flush draw, although essentially was a gamble as not played a pot and had to be back at work. Still would like advise, personally i dont mind the pre call. then that flop is good for me so i have gone all in knowing i could also hit although not the nut straight should i have just folded here or called? i think i made the right play as i just wanted to have a gamble this once, but im guessing talon would have folded to flop bet as he said he had the nuts on the flop? also think i had a straight flush possibilty although wba had 1 of those outs which i didnt know
TP TK, U/D SD.....
???
Knowing Talon he has nut flush draw and maybe top pair top kicker to go with or two pair
Apart from the obvious omission of the possibility of an overset and better flush draw as well as nut straight in your opponents hand you played this perfectly. As it was you were right about all your draws being live which gave you 17 winning outs and 2 more for the split which makes you about 2 to 1 to win the pot. You called off £2-36 to win a pot of £7-60 which is better than 2 to 1 so it was the correct call mathematically in this situation.
Just be aware of the possibility that your opponent might not have a totally dead hand at this point and have redraws as well.
Yes the guy was playing a very aggro game both pre and post flop with some very marginal holdings and you decided to make a stand against him here.If you are going to make a stand this is the perfect hand to do so with 5 nut drawing hands and 1 second nut drawing. For perfections sake it would have been better double suited but still a very strong hand.
You hit the flop very hard with the only weakness being the lack of flush draw. You made the correct call again and got unlucky that is all. With the way he was playing at that time being prepared to pot commit himself with a weak holding preflop and then shoving with a 7 high flush draw it shows the correctness of your play.
On a side note this hand perfectly displays what i have been preaching for a long time. Hands like KQT9( preferably double suited) are brilliant preflop holdings and are ideal raising or calling hands. Too much time preflop raising is based on pocket pairs and nothing else which is marginal at best whereas i would like to see more preflop action with this type of great starting hand.
Cant remember it exactly but knowing my ranges i cant see me betting that flop with less than nut flush draw. If you think it through oesd vs flush draw, flush has 9 outs and oesd has only 6(losing 2 to flushing cards).So for that reason you dont want to play those draws against eachother.
When i bet out and get raised this becomes the easiest fold in the world for you because i would think that a set is definately likely with this betting as well.
The thing to remember when playing omaha is that your hand will consist of 2 cards from your hand and 3 from the board. Unlike in holdem where you can play any combination of board and hand cards.For future playing adjust your options so it shows you what hand you actually have, this will make it a lot easier for you to follow
A hand I just played on our current table. I've seen villain in hand play a little close to NLHE. In one hand he called a flop bet with 2nd pair and a 5 high Club draw, called another bet after turning an additional OESD, and called a river bet when he made trips. Definitely got the impression that he's capable of calling down fairly light.
The other question, as played, can I check back here? It seems very likely now that he just has a 3, so can I give him a free chance at making a weaker FH? If I should bet, how much should it be, considering my stack is slightly more than the pot? Should I have made it £1.20 on the flop to make the pot bigger hence meaning an all-in < pot size on the turn?