Your hand AAt8 ds is a very good starting hand an i would want to be playing any size pot with it. The thing to do in this hand for future reference is to check out your opponents actions and cards. Player A 3-bet preflop and called rerasies with a complete bag of nails hand. Player B 5-bet preflop with a complete bag of nails. Player E however was the only other player involved with a decent hand.
So basically you played it fine and what you want to do is make a note of players A and B and realise they are good sources of income because they overplay really bad hands.
Me and you play a hypothetical 100 hands each time with a full pull up. Every hand we are both allin preflop with you as a 55/45 favourite each time.Let us also say that the law of averages plays along and you win 55 of these hands.
How much profit will you make over those 100 hands?
Exactly my point that i am trying to make.overall you would be 10 buy ins up. But once you allow for the rake on 200 buyins over 100 hands then i think you will find that your profit will be very small or possibly non existant.
This is why in a cash game all in as 55% favourite is not a winning move in the long run. It is in tourny or STT play overall. This is why raising to increase the potential winnings is good it is the flop and onwards play that determines your profitability.
Exactly my point that i am trying to make.overall you would be 10 buy ins up. But once you allow for the rake on 200 buyins over 100 hands then i think you will find that your profit will be very small or possibly non existant. This is why in a cash game all in as 55% favourite is not a winning move in the long run. It is in tourny or STT play overall. This is why raising to increase the potential winnings is good it is the flop and onwards play that determines your profitability. Posted by Talon
u wud still be in profit, plus ur not taking in2 account any dead money that is already in d pot, and when mtt/stt rake is higher at 10%, I struggle 2 c how gettin it in there @ 55/45 is more favourable
Shanxta alot of omaha is about the post flop play, pre flop unless you have moster draws there is no point in 4 betting. even with aces/kings unless you have good draws, if someone else 4 bets you can call with hands but i wouldnt be raising with them if that makes sense. I have been taught by talon so he would give you a better explanation but raising pre is a holdem strategy and is not necessary in omaha Posted by YOUNG_GUN
but if ur uber passive and keep flattin 3bets with decent aces its a losing strategy if ur jus hopin 2 flop top set / nut flush everytime?
if u wanna play that passive, which is prob an option given that standard at nl4 tbh then limp pre, dnt raise/ flat 3bet
Hi Talon Just like to say a very good thread m8 I have been following it with interest and must say the advise you give out IMO is spot on, I started to learn Omaha in 1999 when I first started playing poker as at that time it was the preferred game in the UK it was not until Moneymakers WSOP win did holdem take off in this country.
Well done for promoting Omaha and your solid advise I have learnt from the thread.
I sometimes doubt my own advice at times. I am self taught at the game and have not been rolled to play the game properly and possibly to my potential. So because of this all of my advice can not be backed up with me saying how good i am because i am unproved in that aspect. About 90% of feedback i have received has been very positive so i fell i must at least be on the right lines and i will endeavour to improve the advice that i offer.
Thank you for the kind words. I sometimes doubt my own advice at times. I am self taught at the game and have not been rolled to play the game properly and possibly to my potential. So because of this all of my advice can not be backed up with me saying how good i am because i am unproved in that aspect. About 90% of feedback i have received has been very positive so i fell i must at least be on the right lines and i will endeavour to improve the advice that i offer. Posted by Talon
Your welcome look forward to catching up with you at the table
Thank you for the kind words. I sometimes doubt my own advice at times. I am self taught at the game and have not been rolled to play the game properly and possibly to my potential. So because of this all of my advice can not be backed up with me saying how good i am because i am unproved in that aspect. About 90% of feedback i have received has been very positive so i fell i must at least be on the right lines and i will endeavour to improve the advice that i offer. Posted by Talon
out of interest, do u think people like me n doh were just given thousands to start playing?
u play 2/4p correct? any1 with the smallest omaha knowledge should be able to crush that game, and then move on to 5/10p, and so on, no?
Hi Talon This is the hand I spoke about in my email and is a prime example of how redraws occur on every street at Omaha, my action on the flop would not have any difference to the end result as I had to call the shove which xx made with every set he hit.
That is a perfect hand to show the draw and redraw potentials of omaha. And another example of someone playing the hand perfectly and still losing a massive pot.
I have done posts and shown hands before on why folding the nuts on the flop can sometimes be the best move but in this case folding is by far the worst possible option with the nuts and redraws.
My only slight problem with your play on this hand is the fact that you called a flop bet,( was this read oriented) where personally i would favour the raise option here with such a big hand.
Your knowledge of the game is enough to know you played it well and was just unlucky due to the volatile nature of the game.
That is a perfect hand to show the draw and redraw potentials of omaha. And another example of someone playing the hand perfectly and still losing a massive pot. I have done posts and shown hands before on why folding the nuts on the flop can sometimes be the best move but in this case folding is by far the worst possible option with the nuts and redraws. My only slight problem with your play on this hand is the fact that you called a flop bet,( was this read oriented) where personally i would favour the raise option here with such a big hand. Your knowledge of the game is enough to know you played it well and was just unlucky due to the volatile nature of the game. Posted by Talon
My call on the flop was because it was turning into a game of bingo with players pushing hard with pairs, 2 pairs and sets and trips, I expected a raise with the intention to reraise the pot but as you see did not quite go to plan.
I beleive its a reasonable starting hand, and when the flop came i was more than happy with what i saw, just wasnt so happy with the action i saw. Is this an easy fold in this position? An easy call? An easy shove? I folded in the end and in this instance it was the correct choice but over time is the fold the correct play?
For me this is an instafold with no reads on opponents.
Firstly you do have a really nice starting hand but the flop was not kind to you at all. You have Top pair top kicker which is close to worthless and the third nut flush draw.
When action comes from 2 spots before you with a bet and a raise there is a good chance that you are already dealing with a set and a better flush draw. I really see no point in chasing your moderate draw in this spot. You have very little invested and you can find much better spots than this to get your money over the line.
Ok another hand which I like, and once again I think its a pretty good flop gives me soooo many outs, I probably should have bet out rather than checked, but now ive checked and after that action what would you do??
For me this is an instafold with no reads on opponents. Firstly you do have a really nice starting hand but the flop was not kind to you at all. You have Top pair top kicker which is close to worthless and the third nut flush draw. When action comes from 2 spots before you with a bet and a raise there is a good chance that you are already dealing with a set and a better flush draw. I really see no point in chasing your moderate draw in this spot. You have very little invested and you can find much better spots than this to get your money over the line. Posted by Talon
Thanks, as i said i did fold and it was correct this time, just didnt think it was, ill never get the hang of this game but do enjoy playing it
Comments
Your hand AAt8 ds is a very good starting hand an i would want to be playing any size pot with it. The thing to do in this hand for future reference is to check out your opponents actions and cards.
Player A 3-bet preflop and called rerasies with a complete bag of nails hand.
Player B 5-bet preflop with a complete bag of nails.
Player E however was the only other player involved with a decent hand.
So basically you played it fine and what you want to do is make a note of players A and B and realise they are good sources of income because they overplay really bad hands.
Me and you play a hypothetical 100 hands each time with a full pull up. Every hand we are both allin preflop with you as a 55/45 favourite each time.Let us also say that the law of averages plays along and you win 55 of these hands.
How much profit will you make over those 100 hands?
Hmmmmm i dunno, id win 55 x 8 and lose 45 x 8......then take out the rake. Whats the rake?
Ive no idea.
Oh and id need to make a return of £400 to break even obv....
This is why in a cash game all in as 55% favourite is not a winning move in the long run. It is in tourny or STT play overall. This is why raising to increase the potential winnings is good it is the flop and onwards play that determines your profitability.
Just like to say a very good thread m8 I have been following it with interest and must say the advise you give out IMO is spot on, I started to learn Omaha in 1999 when I first started playing poker as at that time it was the preferred game in the UK it was not until Moneymakers WSOP win did holdem take off in this country.
Well done for promoting Omaha and your solid advise I have learnt from the thread.
I sometimes doubt my own advice at times. I am self taught at the game and have not been rolled to play the game properly and possibly to my potential. So because of this all of my advice can not be backed up with me saying how good i am because i am unproved in that aspect. About 90% of feedback i have received has been very positive so i fell i must at least be on the right lines and i will endeavour to improve the advice that i offer.
Also, fwiw (which isn't much), here is a hand where AAxx is losing pre-flop (just):
AsAc3d2h v 9h8h7d6d.
It's about 47/53.
Ahhhh Helmuths a liar!!
I want a refund on the book that someone sent me via email!!!
This is the hand I spoke about in my email and is a prime example of how redraws occur on every street at Omaha, my action on the flop would not have any difference to the end result as I had to call the shove which xx made with every set he hit.
I have done posts and shown hands before on why folding the nuts on the flop can sometimes be the best move but in this case folding is by far the worst possible option with the nuts and redraws.
My only slight problem with your play on this hand is the fact that you called a flop bet,( was this read oriented) where personally i would favour the raise option here with such a big hand.
Your knowledge of the game is enough to know you played it well and was just unlucky due to the volatile nature of the game.
Firstly you do have a really nice starting hand but the flop was not kind to you at all. You have Top pair top kicker which is close to worthless and the third nut flush draw.
When action comes from 2 spots before you with a bet and a raise there is a good chance that you are already dealing with a set and a better flush draw. I really see no point in chasing your moderate draw in this spot. You have very little invested and you can find much better spots than this to get your money over the line.