In answer to your hand.as you can tell there was an early position min bet which i called( with KK by the way). Then the villain raise it up. First we have to think about his range for this , this includes any3(possibly 33), overpair or bad raise with a 7.You have flopped the second nuts and you need to find out exactly where you are in the hand so you were right to raise it up to assertain your position in the hand and remove any possible callers with overpairs like me.As soon as he flat calls behind you know you are a mile in front and have him drawing very thin.
Now if we are putting him on a 3 then he is drawing to a house or quads.You want him to hit the house but not quads so you have to take away the odds of hitting the 1 outer and the only way to do this is to bet the turn.Your hand is not invulnerable so needs some protection.Your options are limited by being in position and i feel the bet was correct. Out of position a weak bet or check could be used to lure him into betting.
The main thing is you played it spot on and picked up a nice size pot very easily with no effort and got paid 25BB off of a guy just because he had a 3 in his hand.
Per fect drawing hand JJ. Firstly you got lucky by being against a set and not the flush draw as well. Firstly he has 7 killer outs rising to 10 on the turn. but you have.
4 3's 3 4's 3 5's 3 8's 3 9's and 4 T's Giving you a grand total of 20 nut drawing outs. Perfect spot for you to be in with 2 cards to come but watch out for the redraws.
Edit to my post. You do not have 20 outs but 21 if we include the back door flush.You were never going to be a massive favourite against his holding but you would always be in a very good spot.
very strange hand. OK lets look at it all the way.Preflop standard and meaningless.
Flop: straightening board and weak lead bet. Turn: Very straightening and now flushing , again identical weak lead bet, followed by weak raise. River: now a housing board. and yet again a weak lead bet.
I am struggling to put him on any type of hand whatsoever because of the bet sizing. Flopped set would bet stronger flop and turn to protect from redraws so difficult to put him there. Betting on a draw seems unlikely because of the flat call to your raise and then the weak lead out to the card that busts all the draws.The only thing i can possibly put him on on this hand is a badly played flopped set or a very badly played over pair to the board as no other possible holding makes sense on that board as it is played. You are losing to both of these holding so i believe you made the right fold.
As to your play. I like the flat on the flop with nut redraws. The raise on the turn is awful either pot raise, call or fold as the min raise does nothing but pot build in a hand where you are not sure where you are.The fold on the river is good because you are only beating a complete bluff which i can not see as being held here.As bad as your play on the turn was titch's was worse because he committed himself for half of his stack to a bet and a raise and was willing to fold the river.
Very strange hand and would be interesting to find out his holdings to see what the bet were about because they made very little sense on an ever changing board.To get to the river 3 handed with strength being shown on all streets the pot was still very small compared to what it should have been and that is why any possible reads are impossible.
Cheers colins my thoughts exactly, only thing im beating is a busted draw but he played this very weird
looking back the min re-raise was where i got stuck i should have potted then could fold happily or could have taken pot or had a better idea. dont think they post in the forum unfortunately so doubt well ever know
Looking back i played that terrible lol got commited to 2 cards!
on the re-raise on the flop wasn't really getting the odds although implied odds Turn gives me 4 more outs and but not really a fave against any hands here so silly call. Lookin back i would say get rid after raise on flop, silly me!
Firstly the big raise on the flop stinks of set and for me if you are going to play this hand then you are best to jam it in at this point and not flat call. You know where you are and what your outs are so here is the right time to get yourself committed.
That being said you took the turn, and the card came down that at first glance looked good but was in fact just about the worst card possible because it didnt really improve your hand by much. Now if the card had have been a Ten then that would have been different because you would have had the full wrap straight draw to go with your nut flush draw. As played the turn is an instafold.
Right played long heads up game last night with the infamous bobbyp, this is the winning hand before i eventually was too tired. was all swings and roundabouts he started with 20 me 10, i got up to 20 he was on 6, then he won his back. then i gradually got back. Just wanted to see whether this is big cooler for him although think he has played this bad, he didnt moan or anything just would like this hand analysed.....
As far as his play is concerned he only made one mistake/misplay in the whole hand while you made several.
When playinf HU PLO the button/SB has 2 sensible options raise or fold, calling is very bad. This is because if you are going to play the hand you want to make the pot worthwhile and a limped pot will take too long to get to a sensible level.
Flop. he has bottom set and OESD and bets pot which you call with a very weak second pair. Perfect by him loose by you.
Turn . He now has the boat and bets pot again. You call a weak trips and 6 outs to win the pot. You called getting 2 to 1 odds when you were about 7 to 1 to win the pot. Again perfect by him and loose/unbelieving by you.
River. You hit your miracle card and get paid off but the question is should you even have been in the pot at this stage.
In conclusion apart from not raising preflop he played it perfectly. You however kept calling all the way either by being a non-believer or hoping to get lucky and you did by hitting runner runner to outdraw him.
Well summed up, did put on set but was hoping to get lucky although only getting 2-1 in each instance thought of implied odds. still very lucky with last card but if didnt hit i would have check/folded, like you say i played bad he didnt up until river think he should have just called the 1.80 bet as not bluffing in this spot thats reason for that size bet wanted to get paid
I was wondering if you would be able to recommend any books about playing Omaha cash games?
I do pretty well on the £3.30 DYM's and play little else, but the dynamics of those are very different from cash (or even stt/mtt's), and I could do with some pointers to help me out.
Hi Talon, nice thread fella. I was wondering if you would be able to recommend any books about playing Omaha cash games? I do pretty well on the £3.30 DYM's and play little else, but the dynamics of those are very different from cash (or even stt/mtt's), and I could do with some pointers to help me out. Posted by Darntootin
No need for books mate, sure Talon can write a bit to you may even be in this thread at some point but he will help you loads as he has with me
Unfortunately i am unable to recommend any books to you at all on the subject of omaha due to the fact that i have never read one on the subject being totally self taught.
As far as playing PLO on the various structures, STT MTT and cash. I will always err on the side of cash. PLO is a game of flops and streets and therefore in my opinion does not tranfer well into any fast blind structure where preflop aggro becomes paramount.With cash you can much easier make correct calls with the odds chasing down the streets.As long as you make sure you sit down with a full pull up you can give yourself full licence to play every hand properly.
If there is anything you want to know feel free to ask either on this thread or if you find me on a table, as anyone will tell you i am always willing to help. My desire is to increase the knowledge,ability and enjoyment of any player in this wonderful variant of the game.
Comments
In answer to your hand.as you can tell there was an early position min bet which i called( with KK by the way). Then the villain raise it up. First we have to think about his range for this , this includes any3(possibly 33), overpair or bad raise with a 7.You have flopped the second nuts and you need to find out exactly where you are in the hand so you were right to raise it up to assertain your position in the hand and remove any possible callers with overpairs like me.As soon as he flat calls behind you know you are a mile in front and have him drawing very thin.
Now if we are putting him on a 3 then he is drawing to a house or quads.You want him to hit the house but not quads so you have to take away the odds of hitting the 1 outer and the only way to do this is to bet the turn.Your hand is not invulnerable so needs some protection.Your options are limited by being in position and i feel the bet was correct. Out of position a weak bet or check could be used to lure him into betting.
The main thing is you played it spot on and picked up a nice size pot very easily with no effort and got paid 25BB off of a guy just because he had a 3 in his hand.
Bajillion outs right??
4 3's
3 4's
3 5's
3 8's
3 9's and
4 T's Giving you a grand total of 20 nut drawing outs. Perfect spot for you to be in with 2 cards to come but watch out for the redraws.
I know you say not to min-raise i forgot and was pot building thinking my 2 pair was good
not got time to x out apologise for those involved
Flop: straightening board and weak lead bet.
Turn: Very straightening and now flushing , again identical weak lead bet, followed by weak raise.
River: now a housing board. and yet again a weak lead bet.
I am struggling to put him on any type of hand whatsoever because of the bet sizing. Flopped set would bet stronger flop and turn to protect from redraws so difficult to put him there. Betting on a draw seems unlikely because of the flat call to your raise and then the weak lead out to the card that busts all the draws.The only thing i can possibly put him on on this hand is a badly played flopped set or a very badly played over pair to the board as no other possible holding makes sense on that board as it is played. You are losing to both of these holding so i believe you made the right fold.
As to your play. I like the flat on the flop with nut redraws. The raise on the turn is awful either pot raise, call or fold as the min raise does nothing but pot build in a hand where you are not sure where you are.The fold on the river is good because you are only beating a complete bluff which i can not see as being held here.As bad as your play on the turn was titch's was worse because he committed himself for half of his stack to a bet and a raise and was willing to fold the river.
Very strange hand and would be interesting to find out his holdings to see what the bet were about because they made very little sense on an ever changing board.To get to the river 3 handed with strength being shown on all streets the pot was still very small compared to what it should have been and that is why any possible reads are impossible.
looking back the min re-raise was where i got stuck i should have potted then could fold happily or could have taken pot or had a better idea. dont think they post in the forum unfortunately so doubt well ever know
Only hand i lost over £5 in omaha yesterday and still had a good sesh winning wise
on the re-raise on the flop wasn't really getting the odds although implied odds Turn gives me 4 more outs and but not really a fave against any hands here so silly call. Lookin back i would say get rid after raise on flop, silly me!
That being said you took the turn, and the card came down that at first glance looked good but was in fact just about the worst card possible because it didnt really improve your hand by much. Now if the card had have been a Ten then that would have been different because you would have had the full wrap straight draw to go with your nut flush draw. As played the turn is an instafold.
But i think you have realised all of this anyway
When playinf HU PLO the button/SB has 2 sensible options raise or fold, calling is very bad. This is because if you are going to play the hand you want to make the pot worthwhile and a limped pot will take too long to get to a sensible level.
Flop. he has bottom set and OESD and bets pot which you call with a very weak second pair. Perfect by him loose by you.
Turn . He now has the boat and bets pot again. You call a weak trips and 6 outs to win the pot. You called getting 2 to 1 odds when you were about 7 to 1 to win the pot. Again perfect by him and loose/unbelieving by you.
River. You hit your miracle card and get paid off but the question is should you even have been in the pot at this stage.
In conclusion apart from not raising preflop he played it perfectly. You however kept calling all the way either by being a non-believer or hoping to get lucky and you did by hitting runner runner to outdraw him.
I was wondering if you would be able to recommend any books about playing Omaha cash games?
I do pretty well on the £3.30 DYM's and play little else, but the dynamics of those are very different from cash (or even stt/mtt's), and I could do with some pointers to help me out.
Unfortunately i am unable to recommend any books to you at all on the subject of omaha due to the fact that i have never read one on the subject being totally self taught.
As far as playing PLO on the various structures, STT MTT and cash. I will always err on the side of cash. PLO is a game of flops and streets and therefore in my opinion does not tranfer well into any fast blind structure where preflop aggro becomes paramount.With cash you can much easier make correct calls with the odds chasing down the streets.As long as you make sure you sit down with a full pull up you can give yourself full licence to play every hand properly.
If there is anything you want to know feel free to ask either on this thread or if you find me on a table, as anyone will tell you i am always willing to help. My desire is to increase the knowledge,ability and enjoyment of any player in this wonderful variant of the game.