@ pianoplaya - got it. I started with 8 quid at NL4 so i am used to being stuck at one level for ages. ;-) @ Dudeskin - lmao, dunno where my 'pound' sign is on this **** keyboard so have resigned myself to the fact that i have to use dollars. It tilts me too but i dont know how to change it, i think the keyboard settings were set up incorrectly on this darn laptop. Sorry. !@#$%^&*()_+{}|":< />?|\`~[]\';,./+-*/ See, no quid sign. Frickin annoys me! Posted by DrSharp
@ Don - he had KK here well done to the dealer but what if he has AK, wouldn't getting it in pre be better ? @ Sharp - You don't need £260 to start playing NL10, imo £220 is more than enough maybe less. Oh and you play with POUNDS on Sky not DOLLARS ££££££££££££££££££££, sorry it's tilted me for a while now. Posted by Dudeskin8
This is actually why im disappointed with the hand tbh.
When i flat pre im turning my hand into a set mine without the correct odds. Although in posision. If i felt he had AK i should then raise the flop. As far as im consearned not doing that im allowing AK to double barrel. Secondly by the turn i beat AK and Jacks and nothing else. Which imo makes my call pretty bad here.
Maybe im being a little harsh on myself but i really feel i played pre, flop and turn badly. River plays itself
Don the hand I was using as an example was your AAhd v A8cc and J9o from the previous page (I tried to copy it but had a mare), you open 4x which is fine, although as I said I would suggest trying 5x/6x, why because they call and you expect to win a high percentage of the pots when opening AA, therefore you want to make the pot bigger to win more when you take it down. When raising with QQ+ you want to get the money in fast as a one pair hand/AK that hits is vulnurable, a bigger opening raise size helps acomplish this.
For example looking at NL 10, assume you start with £10 and go bet, bet, bet
Raise 4x pre get two callers pot is 3 x 40 + 15 = £1.35
3/4 pot flop bet = £1.01, get one caller pot is £3.37
3/4 pot turn bet = £2.52, get one caller pot is £8.41
River you have £6.07 so you shove, less than a pot size bet but still 72% pot
Raise 5x pre get two callers pot is 3 x 50 + 15 = £1.65
3/4 pot flop bet = £1.23, get one caller pot is £3.81
3/4 pot turn bet = £2.85, get one caller pot is £9.51 - 11 big blinds more than the 4x raise at this point
River you have £5.42 so you shove, now only 57% of pot
Raise 5x pre get two callers pot is 3 x 50 + 15 = £1.65
Pot sized flop bet = £1.65, get one caller pot is £4.95
Pot sized turn bet = £4.95, get one caller pot is £14.85 - 64 big blinds more than the 4x raise at this point
River you have £2.90 so you shove, he's not folding much unless he's missed his draw.
The other relevant point is your equity v 2 villains in the hand above AA v 2 villains.
Preflop you have 72% equity v both hands
On the flop you have 63% v both hands
On the turn you have 59% v both hands
Your not a huge favourite post flop so you should be charging them more and getting the money in faster whilst thay have a draw to catch. As played on the river you are still putting the money in on the 3rd club, it would have been better to have got most if not all the money in on the turn whilst you were still likely best and whilst the draws will still call. Svenstr8s had £3.67 left on the river that you were never going to win as played, if he misses his flush draw he folds the river and when he hits he's sticking it in but your not getting it. £3.67 may not sound like much but it's 45 bb at this level with 8p bb's, at nl100 its like leaving £45 on the table.
Don the hand I was using as an example was your AAhd v A8cc and J9o from the previous page (I tried to copy it but had a mare), you open 4x which is fine, although as I said I would suggest trying 5x/6x, why because they call and you expect to win a high percentage of the pots when opening AA, therefore you want to make the pot bigger to win more when you take it down. When raising with QQ+ you want to get the money in fast as a one pair hand/AK that hits is vulnurable, a bigger opening raise size helps acomplish this. For example looking at NL 10, assume you start with £10 and go bet, bet, bet Raise 4x pre get two callers pot is 3 x 40 + 15 = £1.35 3/4 pot flop bet = £1.01, get one caller pot is £3.37 3/4 pot turn bet = £2.52, get one caller pot is £8.41 River you have £6.07 so you shove, less than a pot size bet but still 72% pot Raise 5x pre get two callers pot is 3 x 50 + 15 = £1.65 3/4 pot flop bet = £1.23, get one caller pot is £3.81 3/4 pot turn bet = £2.85, get one caller pot is £9.51 - 11 big blinds more than the 4x raise at this point River you have £5.42 so you shove, now only 57% of pot Raise 5x pre get two callers pot is 3 x 50 + 15 = £1.65 Pot sized flop bet = £1.65, get one caller pot is £4.95 Pot sized turn bet = £4.95, get one caller pot is £14.85 - 64 big blinds more than the 4x raise at this point River you have £2.90 so you shove, he's not folding much unless he's missed his draw. The other relevant point is your equity v 2 villains in the hand above AA v 2 villains. Preflop you have 72% equity v both hands On the flop you have 63% v both hands On the turn you have 59% v both hands Your not a huge favourite post flop so you should be charging them more and getting the money in faster whilst thay have a draw to catch. As played o n the river you are still putting the money in on the 3rd club, it would have been better to have got most if not all the money in on the turn whilst you were still likely best and whilst the draws will still call. Svenstr8s had £3.67 left on the river that you were never going to win as played, if he misses his flush draw he folds the river and when he hits he's sticking it in but your not getting it. £3.67 may not sound like much but it's 45 bb at this level with 8p bb's, at nl100 its like leaving £45 on the table. These were the points I was trying to make. Posted by stien
Ah ty for getting back. Yeah this makes much more sense i was looking for ur examples lol. ty.
17th Oct Tea time Disaster, 3 UKOPs sats, 3 bubbles while 70% fav and yeah cash went well too.Really taking a battering. FML. Might as well give up. If i cant beat NL10 what can i beat. Posted by The_Don90
In Response to Re: taking on NL4 (and beyond) diary : NL4 and NL8...... Mon the Don Posted by DOHHHHHHH
id rather quit. ive not worked this hard to grind for pennies a day. 2 years work and studying the game and i still cant beat passive fish. Woohoo. Really shows what a good player i am.
stop focusing on what levels you should be playing within your roll multitabling 20BIs is way too short anwyay just play good tables. id rather play a 30nl table with a load of bad players than a 100nl table full of regs, and i do that on a daily basis. Posted by scotty77
Ryan i dont fully understand ur post mate ive bolded what i do understand and am replying to.
I was considering going back to NL4 for a 100BI roll but Dohhhh said that would be too cautious curious on other opinions.
I agree id rather play worse players as clearly better players we have lesser an edge.
what i mean is i think its bad to say 'i have 200 quid now, im gonna only play nl10' fair enough if the tables look good then sit and play but don't just play nl10 simply cos you feel that you are well rolled enough for it. sometimes i have a spread of tables between nl20 and nl200 and thats has nothing to do with my roll but because they are the tables where i think i have the most edge.
i see no reason why you cant play a mix of nl10/nl8/nl4
you should be looking for good tables
20bi is too short if you are playing 4 tables. 30-40 is fine imo but its also fine taking shots now and then.
Yh agree with Ryan, I'm (just about) rolled for NL20 now but I won't sit down with a bunch of nits where I have to either play poker or wait for coolers when I can play NL10 or even NL8 tables with awful mindless zombies who never fold a hand, only reason for persisting at NL20 mainly is for points but in terms of making cold cash I can do the same at NL10 quite easily.
Those hands you just posted were mainly just beats and spots you can't get away from, most times you'll end up good there .
The drop back to NL8 was of mixed results but the recovery is on the way.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
brainer
Small blind
£0.04
£0.04
£4.19
TheRat1
Big blind
£0.08
£0.12
£7.35
Your hole cards
4
4
The_Don90
Call
£0.08
£0.20
£5.90
FRESH2000
Raise
£0.40
£0.60
£3.98
k9bolx1
Fold
mjp123
Call
£0.40
£1.00
£7.47
brainer
Fold
TheRat1
Fold
The_Don90
Call
£0.32
£1.32
£5.58
Flop
3
2
4
The_Don90
Check
FRESH2000
Bet
£0.88
£2.20
£3.10
mjp123
Call
£0.88
£3.08
£6.59
The_Don90
Raise
£3.85
£6.93
£1.73
FRESH2000
All-in
£3.10
£10.03
£0.00
mjp123
All-in
£6.59
£16.62
£0.00
The_Don90
All-in
£1.73
£18.35
£0.00
mjp123
Unmatched bet
£1.89
£16.46
£1.89
The_Don90
Show
4
4
FRESH2000
Show
A
10
mjp123
Show
2
2
Turn
8
River
10
The_Don90
Win
Three 4s
£15.22
£15.22
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
The_Don90
Small blind
£0.04
£0.04
£8.50
tennesee
Big blind
£0.08
£0.12
£2.73
Your hole cards
Q
K
jackandjoe
Fold
JackoG9
Fold
Gorey
Call
£0.08
£0.20
£3.00
Dazza426
Fold
The_Don90
Raise
£0.36
£0.56
£8.14
tennesee
Call
£0.32
£0.88
£2.41
Gorey
Call
£0.32
£1.20
£2.68
Flop
Q
7
5
The_Don90
Bet
£1.20
£2.40
£6.94
tennesee
Raise
£2.40
£4.80
£0.01
Gorey
Call
£2.40
£7.20
£0.28
The_Don90
Raise
£2.40
£9.60
£4.54
tennesee
All-in
£0.01
£9.61
£0.00
Gorey
All-in
£0.28
£9.89
£0.00
The_Don90
Unmatched bet
£0.92
£8.97
£5.46
The_Don90
Show
Q
K
tennesee
Show
9
5
Gorey
Show
A
K
Turn
10
River
2
The_Don90
Win
Flush to the King
£8.29
£13.75
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
JackoG9
Small blind
£0.04
£0.04
£7.88
United4Eva
Big blind
£0.08
£0.12
£4.55
Your hole cards
K
A
Dazza426
Call
£0.08
£0.20
£4.13
The_Don90
Raise
£0.48
£0.68
£15.22
dusithurt
Fold
jackandjoe
Raise
£0.88
£1.56
£3.54
JackoG9
Fold
United4Eva
Call
£0.80
£2.36
£3.75
Dazza426
Fold
The_Don90
All-in
£15.22
£17.58
£0.00
jackandjoe
All-in
£3.54
£21.12
£0.00
United4Eva
All-in
£3.75
£24.87
£0.00
The_Don90
Unmatched bet
£11.07
£13.80
£11.07
United4Eva
Show
J
J
The_Don90
Show
K
A
jackandjoe
Show
Q
Q
Flop
10
9
8
Turn
A
River
10
The_Don90
Win
Two Pairs, Aces and 10s
£12.76
£23.83
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
mala2227
Small blind
£0.04
£0.04
£9.82
lutman01
Big blind
£0.08
£0.12
£5.53
Your hole cards
A
K
brainer
Call
£0.08
£0.20
£5.41
TheRat1
Raise
£0.32
£0.52
£7.10
The_Don90
Raise
£1.28
£1.80
£16.70
mala2227
Fold
lutman01
Fold
brainer
Fold
TheRat1
Call
£0.96
£2.76
£6.14
Flop
5
J
A
TheRat1
Check
The_Don90
Bet
£2.76
£5.52
£13.94
TheRat1
Raise
£5.52
£11.04
£0.62
The_Don90
All-in
£13.94
£24.98
£0.00
TheRat1
All-in
£0.62
£25.60
£0.00
The_Don90
Unmatched bet
£10.56
£15.04
£10.56
TheRat1
Show
J
J
The_Don90
Show
A
K
Turn
3
River
4
TheRat1
Win
Three Jacks
£13.91
£13.91
Closing Balance: £175.70
Felt a little down starting this session and really took me a while to get into any sort of rythum. I think i gave NL10 a pretty hard go too soon. Noteless 6 tabling maybe wasnt the cleverest thing ive done on this jeourny. But ive learnt from it and i will return from it stornger. It may take a few more sessions to build confidence again.
Yeah Don, have to agree regarding multi tabling, i got to 250 quid over the last couple of days or so but because i usually 3 or 4 table i am still unsure about putting 40 quid in play at NL10. Might just find a couple of easyish tables at NL4 or NL8 to go with a table or two of NL10 just to keep my % of br in play down.
Stick to NL8 until the 250 quid mark in my opinion if you are going to multi. Might be a bit nitty but it gives you that extra bit of cushioning to lean in to if things go wrong.
Wow, you started NL10 6-tabling !? I know it's hard to play less tables when you've played loads but I can't think you can make ANY notes whilst playing 6, it's basically all automotive stuff.
Just start with 2 mate and maybe add one more but try and make notes, even by looking at HH for pots bigger that 20bbs and getting reads when hands are shown.
Play players that are worse than you, whatever level that may be with within your roll Pick your tables, find the easy money - it's not easy taking money from regs Identify regs as number one priority and note them early doors
Don't play six tables of a level you have not beat yet, load up 2 x NL10 and 4 xNL4 If you starting with £230 at NL10 you need a good start, if you lose a couple of buy ins step back to NL8.
Don m8 you seem to have nl4 beat and possibly nl8. Not sure why you are so eager to get straight into nl10 and multi-table when a bad session, through no fault of your own, can see you lose a fair size of your roll. I have sufficient roll to go to nl8 and (on the basis of BI's possibly nl10) but I've not moved up for a number of reasons: 1) I'm not playing that good at present 2) I am beating nl4 (although not today! KK v AA, JJ v KQ - it happens) and want to build up to a level where I can have a couple of bad sessions and it still not mean that I have to drop down. Advice given on the forum to do this due to point 1 I thought was correct and so doing it. 3) I am a BR nit!!!!
Personally I'd rather build up a very decent roll at the lower level so that moving up doesn't feel like I am risking so much if I lose a BI or 2. Don't get me wrong, now I'm taking it a bit more seriously the sooner I get off nl4 the better but if spending a bit longer on it now means I feel less pressure when I do move up it'll be worth it. (see point 3 above!!)
Keep focused m8. You've been doing great the past month or so since starting this thread. Good luck David
Looking back on yesterday. I did try and push myself way too much. The good thing is i am capable of making notes while on 6 tables. probably not as much as i needed but thats still some all the same. Ive picked out a couple of people who i suspect to be regs, and i also picked out some good value opponents. Although still one im very un decided on.
Although i have to say i was staggered by the amount of notes i seen labelled as NL4 and recent.
Anyways ive dropped back down but while im not playing i may consider even just watching NL10. I think i let a few coolers/bad beats get ontop of me yesterday and that isnt exactly ideal.
FAO Dudeskin i may look for you if your playing at somepoint on NL10 and see how you play it. Im not scouting on you but i wana know what im looking for and clearly i completely missed something yesterday.
The road to recovery may take a few days or weeks but i fully believe ill be rolled for NL10 again in no time. But i think i learnt something yesterday tbh.
Keep at it Don. Look at the positives you've achieved over the periiod of this diary. Turned £40 into over £200 so there's no doubt you are beating this.
I'm having similar problems mentally coping with the downswings, but like you each peak at the end of a good run is higher than my account has been before.
Keep at it Don. Look at the positives you've achieved over the periiod of this diary. Turned £40 into over £200 so there's no doubt you are beating this. I'm having similar problems mentally coping with the downswings, but like you each peak at the end of a good run is higher than my account has been before. Posted by harding10
Yeah defo. The problem i think is because of the amount of time ive spent studying the game guess sometimes i just expect the results to walk right on it. Lets face it ive never been the strongest poker player mentally and i know of at least one player who tries to use this to gain an edge on me. Thankfully i have strenthened over the period of the last 8 weeks and it doesnt bother me as much as it used to.
I just think maybe NL10 came a week before i was ready. I was a little on the cocky side moving up. Taking the attitude of, "ive beat NL4 and NL8 in 8 weeks, how hard can it be" Slap. Oh.
I think ive learnt far more than i could have from tournaments in this time. Not being dis-respectful for low stake tourny players but ive been there and done it. I know what it takes. Cash offered me a new challenge where i could improve on bits that tournaments can never teach you. Playing with money in play, turn and rivers, and possibly most important was the mental side of the game i felt i could develop more from cash that tournys.
I dont think theres any doupt im a better player now than when i started this diary. However i want to keep the learning going. Aswell as the profits ofc. Ive always been a firm believer in learning from losses. And yesterday was a great learning from loss. I dont think itll take too long for me to develop further on this and NL10 is itting and waiting for me to come back stronger.
Comments
When i flat pre im turning my hand into a set mine without the correct odds. Although in posision. If i felt he had AK i should then raise the flop. As far as im consearned not doing that im allowing AK to double barrel. Secondly by the turn i beat AK and Jacks and nothing else. Which imo makes my call pretty bad here.
Maybe im being a little harsh on myself but i really feel i played pre, flop and turn badly. River plays itself
Tea time
Disaster, 3 UKOPs sats, 3 bubbles while 70% fav and yeah cash went well too.
Might as well give up. If i cant beat NL10 what can i beat.
gg.
multitabling 20BIs is way too short anwyay
just play good tables.
id rather play a 30nl table with a load of bad players than a 100nl table full of regs, and i do that on a daily basis.
I was considering going back to NL4 for a 100BI roll but Dohhhh said that would be too cautious curious on other opinions.
I agree id rather play worse players as clearly better players we have lesser an edge.
i see no reason why you cant play a mix of nl10/nl8/nl4
you should be looking for good tables
20bi is too short if you are playing 4 tables. 30-40 is fine imo but its also fine taking shots now and then.
Those hands you just posted were mainly just beats and spots you can't get away from, most times you'll end up good there
Night session
The drop back to NL8 was of mixed results but the recovery is on the way.
Felt a little down starting this session and really took me a while to get into any sort of rythum. I think i gave NL10 a pretty hard go too soon. Noteless 6 tabling maybe wasnt the cleverest thing ive done on this jeourny. But ive learnt from it and i will return from it stornger. It may take a few more sessions to build confidence again.
Stick to NL8 until the 250 quid mark in my opinion if you are going to multi. Might be a bit nitty but it gives you that extra bit of cushioning to lean in to if things go wrong.
Just start with 2 mate and maybe add one more but try and make notes, even by looking at HH for pots bigger that 20bbs and getting reads when hands are shown.
Play players that are worse than you, whatever level that may be with within your roll
Pick your tables, find the easy money - it's not easy taking money from regs
Identify regs as number one priority and note them early doors
Don't play six tables of a level you have not beat yet, load up 2 x NL10 and 4 xNL4
If you starting with £230 at NL10 you need a good start, if you lose a couple of buy ins step back to NL8.
Focus Don, you seem to be such a rush
I have sufficient roll to go to nl8 and (on the basis of BI's possibly nl10) but I've not moved up for a number of reasons:
1) I'm not playing that good at present
2) I am beating nl4 (although not today! KK v AA, JJ v KQ - it happens) and want to build up to a level where I can have a couple of bad sessions and it still not mean that I have to drop down. Advice given on the forum to do this due to point 1 I thought was correct and so doing it.
3) I am a BR nit!!!!
Personally I'd rather build up a very decent roll at the lower level so that moving up doesn't feel like I am risking so much if I lose a BI or 2. Don't get me wrong, now I'm taking it a bit more seriously the sooner I get off nl4 the better but if spending a bit longer on it now means I feel less pressure when I do move up it'll be worth it. (see point 3 above!!)
Keep focused m8. You've been doing great the past month or so since starting this thread.
Good luck
David
Although i have to say i was staggered by the amount of notes i seen labelled as NL4 and recent.
Anyways ive dropped back down but while im not playing i may consider even just watching NL10. I think i let a few coolers/bad beats get ontop of me yesterday and that isnt exactly ideal.
FAO Dudeskin i may look for you if your playing at somepoint on NL10 and see how you play it. Im not scouting on you but i wana know what im looking for and clearly i completely missed something yesterday.
The road to recovery may take a few days or weeks but i fully believe ill be rolled for NL10 again in no time. But i think i learnt something yesterday tbh.
I'm having similar problems mentally coping with the downswings, but like you each peak at the end of a good run is higher than my account has been before.
I just think maybe NL10 came a week before i was ready. I was a little on the cocky side moving up. Taking the attitude of, "ive beat NL4 and NL8 in 8 weeks, how hard can it be" Slap. Oh.
I think ive learnt far more than i could have from tournaments in this time. Not being dis-respectful for low stake tourny players but ive been there and done it. I know what it takes. Cash offered me a new challenge where i could improve on bits that tournaments can never teach you. Playing with money in play, turn and rivers, and possibly most important was the mental side of the game i felt i could develop more from cash that tournys.
I dont think theres any doupt im a better player now than when i started this diary. However i want to keep the learning going. Aswell as the profits ofc. Ive always been a firm believer in learning from losses. And yesterday was a great learning from loss. I dont think itll take too long for me to develop further on this and NL10 is itting and waiting for me to come back stronger.