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Next Conservative leader

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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,958
    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    Sunak seems to be the one with the most realistic economic outlook.
    I dont see that unfunded tax cuts are realistic.
    Although many people are currently struggling.
    Many more will be in deeper sh1t after the October utility increases.

    I listened briefly the other day to a summary of the countries finances.
    We borrowed loads of money because of covid.
    That was not the governments fault.
    However it was mooted that the terms and conditions for this borrowing could have been improved.
    The annual interest on these loans comes to £90billion.
    That is just interest and does not include any repayments.
    £90billion is more than the whole of the defence budget.

    Inflation continues to increase, the cost of living crisis will become worse from October.
    Millions of people will be fighting for large pay rises, the social care scandal continues, NHS waiting lists are at a record high, and continue to increase,pensioners are set to receive a large increase next year, our financial help to Ukraine continues, etc, etc, etc,
    Reductions in tax can only be funded by cutbacks in expenditure, or by borrowing more money.
    What on earth can they cut?
    Why do they want to increase borrowing?

    Going off at a tangent my wife went out to get a couple of bits this morning.
    Four pints of milk was on her shopping list.
    She informs me that this cost £1 the other day.
    This morning in Tesco £1.65.
    She also popped into Marks&Spencers, because they have better croissants, and they were surprisingly cheaper at £1.45.
    This is a huge increase on just one item.
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 12,013
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    Truss is as short as 4/7 in a couple of places.
    You can get 46/1 on Mordaunt.
    Best you can get on Sunak is 18/11.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    Truss is as short as 4/7 in a couple of places.
    You can get 46/1 on Mordaunt.
    Best you can get on Sunak is 18/11.
    Best you can get after the vote,
    Truss 10/11.
    Sunak 13/8.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,958
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    Sunak seems to be the one with the most realistic economic outlook.
    I dont see that unfunded tax cuts are realistic.
    Although many people are currently struggling.
    Many more will be in deeper sh1t after the October utility increases.

    I listened briefly the other day to a summary of the countries finances.
    We borrowed loads of money because of covid.
    That was not the governments fault.
    However it was mooted that the terms and conditions for this borrowing could have been improved.
    The annual interest on these loans comes to £90billion.
    That is just interest and does not include any repayments.
    £90billion is more than the whole of the defence budget.

    Inflation continues to increase, the cost of living crisis will become worse from October.
    Millions of people will be fighting for large pay rises, the social care scandal continues, NHS waiting lists are at a record high, and continue to increase,pensioners are set to receive a large increase next year, our financial help to Ukraine continues, etc, etc, etc,
    Reductions in tax can only be funded by cutbacks in expenditure, or by borrowing more money.
    What on earth can they cut?
    Why do they want to increase borrowing?

    Going off at a tangent my wife went out to get a couple of bits this morning.
    Four pints of milk was on her shopping list.
    She informs me that this cost £1 the other day.
    This morning in Tesco £1.65.
    She also popped into Marks&Spencers, because they have better croissants, and they were surprisingly cheaper at £1.45.
    This is a huge increase on just one item.
    Milk is rocketing on price.

    I like, where possible, to buy such items from my village shop-because if you don't use them, you lose them.

    Lived here 10 months. Price for 4-pints-last Sept-2 for £1.90
    Today-2 for £3.50
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,958
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    Truss is as short as 4/7 in a couple of places.
    You can get 46/1 on Mordaunt.
    Best you can get on Sunak is 18/11.
    The Conservative election is surprisingly undemocratic.

    Leaving to 1 side that 368 people decide who the unknown amount of Party Members get to choose.

    When 4 left, 1st was a Centrist.
    2nd Centrist.
    3rd Rightwinger.
    4th Rightwinger.

    Down to 3, Rightwing votes combine to finish 2nd.

    Suppose the last 3 had been Sunak/Truss/Badenoch. Sunak would have got 200 votes.
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 12,013
    Truss co-authored this book with:
    Kwasi Kwarteng
    Priti Patel
    Dominic Raab
    Chris Skidmore
    Elizabeth Truss

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained




  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,958
    VespaPX said:

    Truss co-authored this book with:
    Kwasi Kwarteng
    Priti Patel
    Dominic Raab
    Chris Skidmore
    Elizabeth Truss

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained




    That would be MPs.

    The House of Commons has 14 weeks' holiday per year. That is 70 working days. As an example, off on Friday until 4th September.

    Even then if the TV cameras are not there, very few stay for long.

    But please feel free to lecture us all on doing a proper day's work.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,296
    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gygpvd9_Ra0
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,958
    Excruciatingly bad.

    Love the way she gives that death smile, and holds it until people applaud.

    Also had forgotten that she was proud to have built on the great work of, er, Owen Paterson.

    I'm reminded of the great sledge from Ian Healy to Phil Tufnell:-

    "Oi, Tufnell! Could you lend us your brain. We're building an idiot"
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 12,013
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Going to be an interesting day, as 368 people decide who is going to be in the last 2.

    People are getting their excuses in early, claiming Sunak supporters may switch horses so as to get the desired opponent.

    What are the options?

    1. Rishi Sunak. A capable Chancellor. But then so were John Major & Gordon Brown. Didn't make either a successful PM. Only been an MP since 2015. Blunt about the need for taxes to remain high, when surely he could press home that advantage in better ways, politically? Is he a leader?

    2. Liz Truss. Terrible Speaker. The 1 likeliest to say something really stupid in relation to Putin. Promising to increase spending, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Apparently, this will not incur debt. Experience-plenty. Achievement? Little or none.

    3. Penny Mordaunt. Affable. Resonates with voters in a way the other 2 do not. But lacks experience of Senior roles within Government, and less than eyecatching agenda for change.

    All 3 will be more honest than Boris. But I do not believe any of them are more likely to win the next General Election.

    Truss is as short as 4/7 in a couple of places.
    You can get 46/1 on Mordaunt.
    Best you can get on Sunak is 18/11.
    The Conservative election is surprisingly undemocratic.

    Leaving to 1 side that 368 people decide who the unknown amount of Party Members get to choose.

    When 4 left, 1st was a Centrist.
    2nd Centrist.
    3rd Rightwinger.
    4th Rightwinger.

    Down to 3, Rightwing votes combine to finish 2nd.

    Suppose the last 3 had been Sunak/Truss/Badenoch. Sunak would have got 200 votes.
    Dominic Cummings mocks Tory Brexiteers for backing ‘truly useless’ Remainer Liz Truss


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/dominic-cummings-mocks-tory-brexiteers-154750982.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Essexphil said:

    Excruciatingly bad.

    Love the way she gives that death smile, and holds it until people applaud.

    Also had forgotten that she was proud to have built on the great work of, er, Owen Paterson.

    I'm reminded of the great sledge from Ian Healy to Phil Tufnell:-

    "Oi, Tufnell! Could you lend us your brain. We're building an idiot"

    Dominic Cummings says PM backs 'human hand grenade' Liz Truss as he's plotting comeback


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/dominic-cummings-says-pm-backs-human-hand-grenade-liz-truss-as-he-s-plotting-comeback/ar-AAZNn8M?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c403b08a0f34487c9c5a46c05c81bb8c
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Liz Truss launches stinging attack on Rishi Sunak's 'wrong direction' economic record and vows to hold emergency tax-cut budget, build 'aspiration nation' and defend 'our country, history and values' in manifesto to become next PM



    Liz Truss (main, as she makes final two in Tory leadership contest) today vows to beat Labour by 'governing as a true tax-cutting, freedom-loving Conservative'. The Foreign Secretary last night surged into the final run-off (inset, the tally) against Rishi Sunak (pictured on Wednesday leaving an office in London) in the race to become prime minister, knocking out rival Penny Mordaunt . Writing in the Daily Mail today, Miss Truss sets out an agenda that will see her pursuing Boris Johnson's freedom-loving instincts while reversing Mr Sunak's high-tax agenda. In an attack on the former chancellor's record, she says the Government has been 'going in the wrong direction on tax, with the tax burden at its highest in 70 years'. She pledges to hold an emergency budget to push through immediate tax cuts to ease the cost of living and encourage enterprise. 'We cannot have business-as-usual managerialism on the economy,' she writes. 'I am the tax-cutting candidate who will help squeezed families by reversing April's national insurance rise and suspending the green levy on energy bills.' Miss Truss also promises to take on the 'Whitehall Blob' to drive through 'tax-cutting, enterprise boosting, business-friendly Conservative policy'. And she signals that she will take on the Left in the 'culture wars'.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11033315/Liz-Truss-vows-hold-emergency-tax-cut-budget-build-aspiration-nation-defend-country.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Young Liz Truss is applauded at Liberal Democrat conference in unearthed footage showing her taking about 'abolishing the Monarchy'

    https://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2022/07/20/7763220666343902791/636x382_MP4_7763220666343902791.mp4

    Footage has been released of Liz Truss, when she was 19, speaking (main) about how she surveyed a 'reactionary-looking' trio of voters who told her that they had had 'enough' of the Royal Family. It was part of a motion at the 1994 Lib Dem conference in Brighton (inset) which called for republicanism in the UK and the abolition of the Monarchy. The Foreign Secretary, now 46, who used to be the leader of Oxford University's Liberal Democrats has recently said she now understands that the Queen and the rest of the Royals are 'key' to the success of the UK. She became a Conservative in 1996, and is now in the final two of the Tory leadership campaign to become Prime Minister along with former chancellor Rishi Sunak.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11033679/Liz-Truss-applauded-Lib-Dem-conference-1994-trio-wanted-abolish-Monarchy.html
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,958
    In some respects, this sums up this country, and the fact that we get the leaders we deserve, rather than what we need.

    We are facing the biggest Cost of Living crisis since at least the 1970s, and probably since World War 2. Tens of thousands of people (or possibly millions) are unable to afford to live right now. Simply because inflation does not affect everyone equally-fuel and food rises impact far more on the poor. But Benefits take no account of that.

    But we live in a country where the ruling Party can't be bothered to even have anyone leading this country for the next 6 weeks.

    Meanwhile, a tiny fraction of the electorate get to choose between a Billionaire tax riser and an Idiot. No rush. Take your time. Need a month to manage to put an "X" in a box? That's fine.

    Funny how the state of the country, Ukraine, etc, don't matter when it comes to choosing the 3rd unelected PM in a row.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,522
    Essexphil said:

    In some respects, this sums up this country, and the fact that we get the leaders we deserve, rather than what we need.

    We are facing the biggest Cost of Living crisis since at least the 1970s, and probably since World War 2. Tens of thousands of people (or possibly millions) are unable to afford to live right now. Simply because inflation does not affect everyone equally-fuel and food rises impact far more on the poor. But Benefits take no account of that.

    But we live in a country where the ruling Party can't be bothered to even have anyone leading this country for the next 6 weeks.

    Meanwhile, a tiny fraction of the electorate get to choose between a Billionaire tax riser and an Idiot. No rush. Take your time. Need a month to manage to put an "X" in a box? That's fine.

    Funny how the state of the country, Ukraine, etc, don't matter when it comes to choosing the 3rd unelected PM in a row.

    It seems very unfortunate that the majority of Tory members are preparing to vote for the idiot.
    There is a very small window available for Sunak to change that, as it seems that many Tory members will be voting very soon after receiving their ballot papers.
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