In Response to Re: Cash players... please resolve this argument for me: : Dont you think that it was too much of a risk though? Is that hand really goon enough, i mean, its sort of well loosable and more gambling than playing the game to me but i'm not saying your wrong. Posted by AIRWALKER
If you dont call when you are well ahead of his range, then someone else on the table will, and I doubt they will be waiting for a hand as big as AJs. So then, someone else who is playing far better has got his money. It could be a lot harder to get it off them. If he busts you, reload and do the same.
using poker stove: i assigned him the range of any ace, any pair, any king, and pretty much any broadway... with AJs i am 61% favourite to win against this range. Take away the 5% rake and thats a long term profitable call imo. airwalker... its not about the strength of my hand, its about how it compares to the strength of his range. If i know for a fact he has 72o and shoves... then i will 100% call with 73o because i will be about 70% favourite to win the hand.
If you dont call when you are well ahead of his range, then someone else on the table will, and I doubt they will be waiting for a hand as big as AJs. So then, someone else who is playing far better has got his money. It could be a lot harder to get it off them. If he busts you, reload and do the same. Posted by OMahonyO
He sucked out 3 times against me lol so i reloaded to the maxium (250BB) to cover him and this is where the decision came up...
In Response to Re: Cash players... please resolve this argument for me: : Err i mean good enough lol Posted by AIRWALKER
if you said to me, this dude yo, he went all in 200x the blind, you haz Ace and a jack and its sooooooted. Wats your move?
I'd ask about the player, if you have no information it's a clear fold. However blackfish has given us his estimation of the range of hands his opponents will shove with. If we assume these assumptions to be correct we can mathematically work out if the play is a winning one or not. We can then adjust the ranges and see the difference in how much of a winning play it is and decide from there where we want our cut off point to be for calling. There are lots of other factors that could sway your decision (like if you know it's his last hand, or you know that he will be there all night etc etc).
I think you said something about it not being 'playing the game' but it is the whole point of the game. We have to make judgements about our opponents and act accordingly.
In Response to Re: Cash players... please resolve this argument for me: : if you said to me, this dude yo, he went all in 200x the blind, you haz Ace and a jack and its sooooooted. Wats your move? I'd ask about the player, if you have no information it's a clear fold. However blackfish has given us his estimation of the range of hands his opponents will shove with. If we assume these assumptions to be correct we can mathematically work out if the play is a winning one or not. We can then adjust the ranges and see the difference in how much of a winning play it is and decide from there where we want our cut off point to be for calling. There are lots of other factors that could sway your decision (like if you know it's his last hand, or you know that he will be there all night etc etc). I think you said something about it not being 'playing the game' but it is the whole point of the game. We have to make judgements about our opponents and act accordingly. Posted by beaneh
Thanks for that, i understand what you and blackfish are saying now.
The kind of hands he has been shoving are normally worse than aj so he had a good chance but if he was only shoving with top top cards or high pairs then you would think about it a bit more.......i think
As for playing the game the object with cash is to have more than you started with when you sign out isn't it?
You don't have to get all the cash on a table do you like when you are playing for chips you have to have them all?
In Response to Re: Cash players... please resolve this argument for me: : i think As for playing the game the object with cash is to have more than you started with when you sign out isn't it? You don't have to get all the cash on a table do you like when you are playing for chips you have to have them all?
Posted by AIRWALKER
When you sit at a cash table, the idea is to get your money in good and let the poker gods do there thing. You cant stop suck outs or influence your result in that way. You have to keep making plays that show a profit period.
Against a normal player or someone you know nowt about - 100% fold.
Against this clown - 100% call, if he has the goods (even clowns get hands sometimes) so be it. Reload and try again. Most of the time you're in good shape.
over 200 big blinds infront of you, just forget what cash level you are playing at for 1 second!!!!
this is not a call, lets pretend that they are both sat with 1k each, is it a snap call then? no it is not its an instant fold so cottlad stop making out this is a call, anyone who calls here deserves to lose!!!
over 200 big blinds infront of you, just forget what cash level you are playing at for 1 second!!!! this is not a call, lets pretend that they are both sat with 1k each, is it a snap call then? no it is not its an instant fold so cottlad stop making out this is a call, anyone who calls here deserves to lose!!! Posted by webby234
In Response to Re: Cash players... please resolve this argument for me: : Made hand v unmade hand? Posted by TRIP5
Made hand has nothing do do with this. A J v's Q 7 is as good as made. he has to hit, you don't - works the same way as 66 v's Q 7 you see, he has to hit - you don't
Your calling this all day long against someone with his table image. I'm going to assume your a tournament player Trip5 as you can't seriously consider folding here against the oppos range
lol i put it into a poker stove and its a profitable call... i would rather of had 1k infront of me and not just 10 quid because then i would have made even more in the long run. I am over a 60% favourite against his range... easy call for me surely? and quickly before anyone else has the chance to stack him.
over 200 big blinds infront of you, just forget what cash level you are playing at for 1 second!!!! this is not a call, lets pretend that they are both sat with 1k each, is it a snap call then? no it is not its an instant fold so cottlad stop making out this is a call, anyone who calls here deserves to lose!!! Posted by webby234
Its the player i am playing here with the info i already have on him,therefore it is a CALL.
over 200 big blinds infront of you, just forget what cash level you are playingat for 1 second!!!! this is not a call, lets pretend that they are both sat with 1k each,is it a snap call then? no it is not its an instant fold so cottlad stop making out this is a call, anyone who calls here deserves to lose!!! Posted by webby234
Why say forget the level and then put a £1k price tag on it?
The cash is irrelevant - Would i call for £1k - No because £1k would keep my kids in shoes for a year (well almost) so that is a disproportionate amount for me to lose, this is the reason people play within their roll, so they can fully forget the money and just make the decision. Your example only works because you would be scarred to lose £1k.... so lets swap it the other way.... If your both sitting with £1 on 1p blinds do you call AJ then against a guy whos been shoving you with junk and sucking out?????? yes of course you do because your beating his range.
If you were making the call for £1k then £1k is an insignificant amount of money to you (or your an idiot). As the money holds no significance then this purely comes down to if you believe you are ahead of the raisers range. You are and therefore you call....... Simples
It's the 25th hand, he has shoved 10 out of 25... that suggests he is shoving 40% of his range, just to make it clearer... if he has been getting good cards and is in fact only shoving the top 30% of his range then according to poker stove: AJs v top 30% of his range = 60.51% v 39.49%
If you take into it the 5% rake then anything over 55% favourite is a profitable call and this is why its a call.
Comments
Take away the 5% rake and thats a long term profitable call imo.
airwalker... its not about the strength of my hand, its about how it compares to the strength of his range. If i know for a fact he has 72o and shoves... then i will 100% call with 73o because i will be about 70% favourite to win the hand.
The kind of hands he has been shoving are normally worse than aj so he had a good chance but if he was only shoving with top top cards or high pairs then you would think about it a bit more.......i think
As for playing the game the object with cash is to have more than you started with when you sign out isn't it?
You don't have to get all the cash on a table do you like when you are playing for chips you have to have them all?
Against this clown - 100% call, if he has the goods (even clowns get hands sometimes) so be it. Reload and try again. Most of the time you're in good shape.
Obviously, if it's a tourney, 100% fold.
ps hi blackfish mate,pllleeaaassseee tell me you called.dav
this is not a call, lets pretend that they are both sat with 1k each, is it a snap call then? no it is not its an instant fold so cottlad stop making out this is a call, anyone who calls here deserves to lose!!!
Your calling this all day long against someone with his table image. I'm going to assume your a tournament player Trip5 as you can't seriously consider folding here against the oppos range
The cash is irrelevant - Would i call for £1k - No because £1k would keep my kids in shoes for a year (well almost) so that is a disproportionate amount for me to lose, this is the reason people play within their roll, so they can fully forget the money and just make the decision. Your example only works because you would be scarred to lose £1k.... so lets swap it the other way.... If your both sitting with £1 on 1p blinds do you call AJ then against a guy whos been shoving you with junk and sucking out?????? yes of course you do because your beating his range.
If you were making the call for £1k then £1k is an insignificant amount of money to you (or your an idiot). As the money holds no significance then this purely comes down to if you believe you are ahead of the raisers range. You are and therefore you call....... Simples
AJs v top 30% of his range = 60.51% v 39.49%
If you take into it the 5% rake then anything over 55% favourite is a profitable call and this is why its a call.