You are still playing badly, pricing the draws in...if you keep thinking it is bad luck, you will continue to lose...
Bankroll-wise, that's THE most deadly combo - when we think we are unlucky, but really we murdered the hand.
In the K-5d hand, we never bet until we were behind. Imagine what Villain was thinking pre-flop, on the flop, & on the turn.
Please don't bet, give me a free card.
And we obliged. We never bet, we qave him free cards all the way, thinking we could play it cute.
Until, of course, we were behind. THEN we bet.
It was a little unlucky, but it was completely self-inflicted.
It's the first rule of winning poker. DON'T KEEP LIMPING.
I hope @misterpj takes it on board in the spirit intended - folks really are trying to help him. But if he won't listen, the "beats" will go on.
I am not going to comment on the hands posted, as I'm clearly not qualified to do so, but this was the biggest lesson I had to learn (and continue to have to remind myself). When I look back at all the hands I think I got 'unlucky' on, I actually just limped and gave my opponent the chance to take the card/cards that killed me. I also noted that much of my amazing play, was just luck that the card I gave them didn't help them and cost me money through not having bet. Almost all my loses result from trying to play clever, when I'm not. To help with this I've created a sign (which I have next to my PC) of a comment I got in the chat box once "You think your Phil Ivey, but your just a lucky Frank Spencer"
Just divided into four equal suits, of thirteen cards Just ‘simply’ fundamentally ‘based on PROBABILTY
Quote; un Quote;
People complain about the river so much but you don’t realise that the 5th card is no different from the 1st card that comes out;there (are) not is,5 cards in total just is more annoying that when u lose on the river eg.
quote unquote ( sky poker forum ‘river cards’)
The biggest load of ‘steaming manure’ ever written!
A single, individual deal (nine handed, six handed) is but a single individual deal (totally isolated) what has gone before, irrelevant;
Poker fundamental; (A) the deal; (B) the flop; (C) the turn; (D) the river; under pinned by PROBABILTY
Each stage, Poker Probability, changes, fundamentally, at every stage; that would be ‘probability’ pure Math’s’,
so it is absolute garbage, that the river card, is but one, of a total of’ five, community cards, that happens to ‘be dealt’ fifth, rather than, first, second, third, fourth.
If? ,which I am not, but if ?,
I was; really nasty, really vindictive,(which I am not) probably ?
If ‘Carlsberg’ did Poker,the most, generous, self-deprecating, individual; on the planet. ( and,in an hour or so,look in the other place,bad beats)
I gaurentee, Carlsberg,and if,'they did Poker' will make you chuckle.
Hence, and defacto, to save, any select individuals, from mugging themselves, right off, in public,not my words ! (with which; I concur absolutely,but,'they'are the thoughts, of one of the, collosal, long term winning players, on here……………………………… So, I have certainly saved, one or to; Pirannas, from making themselves, look stupid.
Take a look, on here, in bad beats, brags, and variance, (at todays) Jan 31 2019 post,'when does ever playing the best poker,ever pay off ?' then, feel free to, offer advice?! and laugh about 'if Carlsberg did poker,and,very finally, take an objective look,at;if ? it is possible (which I know it is,possible) but, ? probable ? to run, this, rank,this long,and keep coming back for more !.............................................
While some of those hands are unlucky and played fine, there are others here that you have really butchered, such as the k5dd and 98dd hands.
The biggest mistake you seem to make is you try to get cute with a monster hand by min-raising and then feel disgruntled when you get sucked out on. Of course you are going to get sucked out on sometimes when you give players such a good price to continue. Playing these hands like this is the complete WRONG strategy especially at micro stakes where the average player calls far too wide and chases draws that are too weak. When You flop a monster like a flush and you should really start getting chips in. Especially when players have a lot of draws they can chase. BET BIGGER. YOUR BETS SHOULD BE RELATIVE TO POT SIZE. DON'T MINIMUM RAISE 300 INTO A POT OF 1000. Make it closer to pot. If you are going to make a bet make it at least half pot as a general rule.
If you convince yourself you are just really unlucky and play well then why would you ever try and improve if its completely out of your hands. It's a lot easier to say you have bad luck when you actually misplayed hands. You clearly misplayed hands here, and these were cherry-picked to display your 'bad luck' so I'm sure there are plenty of hands you played worse that did not make it here. Slowplaying should not be your go to strategy. It is only effective against very aggressive opponents and on boards where it is hard for your opponent to have much to continue with (eg you have AA on A62). On these wet dynamic boards with lots of draws and pairs opponents can have slowplaying is horrible, such as on Jd9d3d when you have Kd5d.
P.S a coin flip (where your equity is basically 50/50) is not a bad beat or unlucky, regardless of the run-out. You got your chips in with the expectation to win half the time, it doesn't matter if they river 2 outs when its gone in as a flip. Annoying, maybe, unlucky, not so much.
Strained every sinew, to keep it buttoned! Going to have, a ‘right old huff n puff’ you decide if justified? Or not, but that’s for later. By way of an ‘olive’, maybe not a ‘branch’ how about a ‘seed’. A fun conversation about poker over (last) weekend,culminated,in a discussion,on,what would completely focus your mind,(like never before) to play the best sustained Poker of your life, for example, you have just made, nine handed, the World Series Final. Would that (obviously) should be, enough, pun intended, to ‘put it all in’ like never before. That led on to, ‘if Carlsberg did World Series Finals’ the oldies will get it, if you don’t? I am sure you will grasp it. Enjoyed reading, probably, every single post, in each section of the forum, all the way back, to the beginning, interesting stuff. The next contributor, another very long term winner, weighed in with, one of the problems with novice, newer players, or those that play, but do not have a full grasp on mathamatics,what is perceived, as a beat, a suck out, a lot of the time, is not in fact, as pure poker maths, is a joy to behold. Something like, pocket AK suited v 7 2 off, (pre) 30 times in 100, 300 times in a 1000,your 7 2 off suit, when you call the pocket AK suited in front, ( madness in the cold light of day) but set in stone fact, 7 2 off beats AK suited,300 times every time you ‘run it’. Yes, I know, I know, the majority of you reading this, know that instently.I digress. Well, could not exactly call this an? Erm. Olive branch! maybe a sapling ‘twiglet’ ! One thing, I don’t think I was ever able to articulate, properly,was,the hands I mentioned (previously), were only ever ‘key hands’ relative, of course, but key hands to me, relative to what MTT tournament situation, I found myself in. So, last Saturday, a little gathering, good company, fantastic food, nice wine, (not exactly a party) but a group of ‘well oiled’ 50 plus males and females, ultimately descended into (bad, mum n dad dancing) I digress,earlier,the conversation turned to Poker,( I am sure you will find this very hard to believe ?) down to me, an ‘argument started’ but of the 100% good natured variety, I might have just taken (another, savage beat ? !) You decide.., in fact, to continue the theme, of this post, I will post the hand (hands) just two. And, if you stick with this, you will realise, (A) this is not about beats, suck outs,(B) this is actually about, a life time love and respect for Poker, but the second, of the two hands posted,inspired,the (enjoyable heated debate) which was, about, Poker abilty,and,lead on to, ‘if Carlsberg did Poker. Not sure what the weather is like in the rest of U.K,but amazed to wake up to,lazer like beautiful sunshine, last few days, been, Siberian esc !, Polar Bears, even a Wholly Mammoth ! I will do, this bit of this post now, and not,say,seven key hands,MTT critical pots (after two,three,four hours stack building) all from last weekend, featuring, 500 runner MTT ,think it was a bounty hunter, just gone final table, six handed, and heads up, 125,000, I shove, (heads up) pre, pocket JJ, snap called, by pocket ….. 10 10 …guess the rest; will post that in the week. All I will post now (below) only two hands, from the same mtt,early last Sat evening, at 19.22,and 19.44,after hours building a stack. It is the second hand, the 19.44 one,(that ‘inspired the heated debate, on Poker ability, with my ‘chums’) Myself, pocket AJ suited hearts, and call the BB 3000,that gets raised, I call it (pre) flop comes, As 7S 4h (top pair AA top kicker J) villain bets 3000, I snap call, all in, a further 21,000 chips, which is snap called back, pocket AJ suited, flop top pair top kicker ,by, Ac8h, no flush draw, no straight draw, dominated, and, I have a few non playing Poker buddys,wine glasses in hand, watching me play, telling them ‘ tongue in cheek, I’m the best player on the planet. This specific hand, 70% fav pre, 81% fav post,56000 pot, Played four hours to get to this point, and, just, and only just, about, last weekend, from Sat, seven exact plus same scenarios as this, all in separate,£.5.50 BH, Deep Stacks,Re Buys, it is soul destroying, to have continually run like this, for months. And, PLEASE, please, no one, come at me, with the ridiculous hairy old chestnut, players do not remember, beats and suck outs dished out, ? why so, I can well understand, how those multi tabling 16 tables, do not remember, but, for a dinosaur like me, who ‘loves’ Poker, who does not multi table, because, (shock horror) I like, I enjoy Poker, I like ‘studying other players play’ hence and defacto, I ‘like’ looking back at key hands, to study, so I know, a million %, I dish out, a key significant beat or suck, as regularly as your average rocking horse, experiences bowel movement, (sorry for analogy) not very often ! (Hardly ever) last one, months ago, pocket JJ called by QQ, spiked a J on the flop, and said I am really really sorry. I have been, on the wrong end of, the AJ A8 scenario,constently, (yes, I know,downswing,varience,run bad) If I ever run remotely reasonably again, I will dump into here, 200 average stake buy ins, join shark scope, reset, and start again, but ……………………………………….
using Mr Bates advice, build a stack,so you can take a hit, so, three hours deep,built a stack,first hand 19.22, not a beat,well played,but had a stack, to take this,and then,19.44, the same old story.
might just be, one of the best examples, of running bad, final table, heads up,had been for a while,having fired in near 80,000 chips pre, 52% pre ( get it all in as fav !) 70 % fav post, 68% fav after the turn,
Comments
turn river runner runner (again) today, just unlucky ! river 22% chance gets there again,
You are still playing badly, pricing the draws in...if you keep thinking it is bad luck, you will continue to lose...
In the K-5d hand, we never bet until we were behind. Imagine what Villain was thinking pre-flop, on the flop, & on the turn.
Please don't bet, give me a free card.
And we obliged. We never bet, we qave him free cards all the way, thinking we could play it cute.
Until, of course, we were behind. THEN we bet.
It was a little unlucky, but it was completely self-inflicted.
It's the first rule of winning poker. DON'T KEEP LIMPING.
I hope @misterpj takes it on board in the spirit intended - folks really are trying to help him. But if he won't listen, the "beats" will go on.
I am not going to comment on the hands posted, as I'm clearly not qualified to do so, but this was the biggest lesson I had to learn (and continue to have to remind myself). When I look back at all the hands I think I got 'unlucky' on, I actually just limped and gave my opponent the chance to take the card/cards that killed me. I also noted that much of my amazing play, was just luck that the card I gave them didn't help them and cost me money through not having bet.
Almost all my loses result from trying to play clever, when I'm not. To help with this I've created a sign (which I have next to my PC) of a comment I got in the chat box once "You think your Phil Ivey, but your just a lucky Frank Spencer"
posted in community, the following;
Poker, (no limit hold em);
Just 52 cards
Just divided into four equal suits, of thirteen cards
Just ‘simply’ fundamentally ‘based on PROBABILTY
Quote; un Quote;
People complain about the river so much but you don’t realise that the 5th card is no different from the 1st card that comes out;there (are) not is,5 cards in total just is more annoying that when u lose on the river eg.
quote unquote ( sky poker forum ‘river cards’)
The biggest load of ‘steaming manure’ ever written!
A single, individual deal (nine handed, six handed) is but a single individual deal
(totally isolated) what has gone before, irrelevant;
Poker fundamental;
(A) the deal;
(B) the flop;
(C) the turn;
(D) the river;
under pinned by PROBABILTY
Each stage, Poker Probability, changes, fundamentally, at every stage; that would be ‘probability’ pure Math’s’,
so it is absolute garbage, that the river card, is but one, of a total of’ five, community cards, that happens to ‘be dealt’ fifth, rather than, first, second, third, fourth.
If? ,which I am not, but if ?,
I was; really nasty, really vindictive,(which I am not) probably ?
If ‘Carlsberg’ did Poker,the most, generous, self-deprecating, individual; on the planet.
( and,in an hour or so,look in the other place,bad beats)
I gaurentee, Carlsberg,and if,'they did Poker' will make you chuckle.
Hence, and defacto, to save, any select individuals, from mugging themselves, right off, in public,not my words ! (with which; I concur absolutely,but,'they'are the thoughts, of one of the, collosal, long term winning players, on here………………………………
So, I have certainly saved, one or to; Pirannas, from making themselves, look stupid.
Take a look, on here, in bad beats, brags, and variance, (at todays) Jan 31 2019 post,'when does ever playing the best poker,ever pay off ?' then, feel free to, offer advice?! and laugh about 'if Carlsberg did poker,and,very finally, take an objective look,at;if ? it is possible (which I know it is,possible) but, ? probable ? to run, this, rank,this long,and keep coming back for more !.............................................
The biggest mistake you seem to make is you try to get cute with a monster hand by min-raising and then feel disgruntled when you get sucked out on. Of course you are going to get sucked out on sometimes when you give players such a good price to continue. Playing these hands like this is the complete WRONG strategy especially at micro stakes where the average player calls far too wide and chases draws that are too weak. When You flop a monster like a flush and you should really start getting chips in. Especially when players have a lot of draws they can chase. BET BIGGER. YOUR BETS SHOULD BE RELATIVE TO POT SIZE. DON'T MINIMUM RAISE 300 INTO A POT OF 1000. Make it closer to pot. If you are going to make a bet make it at least half pot as a general rule.
If you convince yourself you are just really unlucky and play well then why would you ever try and improve if its completely out of your hands. It's a lot easier to say you have bad luck when you actually misplayed hands. You clearly misplayed hands here, and these were cherry-picked to display your 'bad luck' so I'm sure there are plenty of hands you played worse that did not make it here. Slowplaying should not be your go to strategy. It is only effective against very aggressive opponents and on boards where it is hard for your opponent to have much to continue with (eg you have AA on A62). On these wet dynamic boards with lots of draws and pairs opponents can have slowplaying is horrible, such as on Jd9d3d when you have Kd5d.
P.S a coin flip (where your equity is basically 50/50) is not a bad beat or unlucky, regardless of the run-out. You got your chips in with the expectation to win half the time, it doesn't matter if they river 2 outs when its gone in as a flip. Annoying, maybe, unlucky, not so much.
That led on to, ‘if Carlsberg did World Series Finals’ the oldies will get it, if you don’t? I am sure you will grasp it.
Enjoyed reading, probably, every single post, in each section of the forum, all the way back, to the beginning, interesting stuff.
The next contributor, another very long term winner, weighed in with, one of the problems with novice, newer players, or those that play, but do not have a full grasp on mathamatics,what is perceived, as a beat, a suck out, a lot of the time, is not in fact, as pure poker maths, is a joy to behold. Something like, pocket AK suited v 7 2 off, (pre) 30 times in 100, 300 times in a 1000,your 7 2 off suit, when you call the pocket AK suited in front, ( madness in the cold light of day) but set in stone fact, 7 2 off beats AK suited,300 times every time you ‘run it’. Yes, I know, I know, the majority of you reading this, know that instently.I digress.
Well, could not exactly call this an? Erm. Olive branch! maybe a sapling ‘twiglet’ !
One thing, I don’t think I was ever able to articulate, properly,was,the hands I mentioned (previously), were only ever ‘key hands’ relative, of course, but key hands to me, relative to what MTT tournament situation, I found myself in.
So, last Saturday, a little gathering, good company, fantastic food, nice wine, (not exactly a party) but a group of ‘well oiled’ 50 plus males and females, ultimately descended into (bad, mum n dad dancing) I digress,earlier,the conversation turned to Poker,( I am sure you will find this very hard to believe ?) down to me, an ‘argument started’ but of the 100% good natured variety, I might have just taken (another, savage beat ? !) You decide.., in fact, to continue the theme, of this post, I will post the hand (hands) just two. And, if you stick with this, you will realise, (A) this is not about beats, suck outs,(B) this is actually about, a life time love and respect for Poker, but the second, of the two hands posted,inspired,the (enjoyable heated debate) which was, about, Poker abilty,and,lead on to, ‘if Carlsberg did Poker. Not sure what the weather is like in the rest of U.K,but amazed to wake up to,lazer like beautiful sunshine, last few days, been, Siberian esc !, Polar Bears, even a Wholly Mammoth !
I will do, this bit of this post now, and not,say,seven key hands,MTT critical pots (after two,three,four hours stack building) all from last weekend, featuring, 500 runner MTT ,think it was a bounty hunter, just gone final table, six handed, and heads up, 125,000, I shove, (heads up) pre, pocket JJ, snap called, by pocket ….. 10 10 …guess the rest; will post that in the week.
All I will post now (below) only two hands, from the same mtt,early last Sat evening, at 19.22,and 19.44,after hours building a stack. It is the second hand, the 19.44 one,(that ‘inspired the heated debate, on Poker ability, with my ‘chums’) Myself, pocket AJ suited hearts, and call the BB 3000,that gets raised, I call it (pre) flop comes, As 7S 4h (top pair AA top kicker J) villain bets 3000, I snap call, all in, a further 21,000 chips, which is snap called back, pocket AJ suited, flop top pair top kicker ,by, Ac8h, no flush draw, no straight draw, dominated, and, I have a few non playing Poker buddys,wine glasses in hand, watching me play, telling them ‘ tongue in cheek, I’m the best player on the planet.
This specific hand, 70% fav pre, 81% fav post,56000 pot, Played four hours to get to this point, and, just, and only just, about, last weekend, from Sat, seven exact plus same scenarios as this, all in separate,£.5.50 BH, Deep Stacks,Re Buys, it is soul destroying, to have continually run like this, for months. And, PLEASE, please, no one, come at me, with the ridiculous hairy old chestnut, players do not remember, beats and suck outs dished out, ? why so, I can well understand, how those multi tabling 16 tables, do not remember, but, for a dinosaur like me, who ‘loves’ Poker, who does not multi table, because, (shock horror) I like, I enjoy Poker, I like ‘studying other players play’ hence and defacto, I ‘like’ looking back at key hands, to study, so I know, a million %, I dish out, a key significant beat or suck, as regularly as your average rocking horse, experiences bowel movement, (sorry for analogy) not very often ! (Hardly ever) last one, months ago, pocket JJ called by QQ, spiked a J on the flop, and said I am really really sorry. I have been, on the wrong end of, the AJ A8 scenario,constently, (yes, I know,downswing,varience,run bad) If I ever run remotely reasonably again, I will dump into here, 200 average stake buy ins, join shark scope, reset, and start again, but ……………………………………….
so, three hours deep,built a stack,first hand 19.22, not a beat,well played,but had a stack, to take this,and then,19.44, the same old story.
Should (genuinely) I give the game up (here) ? or, believe, it will all turn around ?