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Shamima Begum: Ex-Bethnal Green schoolgirl who joined IS 'wants to come home'

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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,658
    madprof said:

    Essexphil said:

    madprof said:

    madprof said:

    tomgoodun said:

    well anyone who thinks someone who joins a terrorist cell and justifies why they bombed manchester want their head testing you did hear the bit where she showed no remorse and justified bombing manchester right...so you want people like this to come back to the uk potentially radicalise other people or even murder other people in our country all in the name of isis you want your head testing !!!!
    if one person gets murdered would you be prepared to say sorry to the families because you belive they deserve a 2nd chance

    What punishment is appropriate to this woman?

    Conspired against britain for another power safe to say treason would be good hang the **** for me
    No, no speak your mind...don't hold back!
    Sorry, should clarify my position I suppose

    I think she left Britain as an articulate, educated but naive 15 year old...she now wants to return as a woman - who has had more than enough life experiences to enable her to have a more informed view..unfortunately when interviewed, her views on Manchester continued to be biased towards the life she has been living within the ISIS world , by choice!

    The recent interview with her Dutch husband seemed to illustrate that she appears to be still more radical than him!

    Whilst it has no basis in law and I think it will be overturned on appeal, Saveed Javed's decision was the right one for all parties:

    She won't be at risk of her life
    It won't cost the public purse in protection costs
    The political stance sends a message that if you go to support a terrorist regime, you don't deserve to retain your citizenship

    Having said that, she will probably come home, face UK justice and cost the country millions over her lifetime being 'protected'

    She should go to Holland and be with her husband...in jail btw
    Hi Prof.

    There is no natural other home for this woman.

    Her Dutch Husband is seeking to use her as a bargaining chip-unlike her, he is facing likely charges in Syria. He has no doubt killed people fighting for his cause.

    How would we react if it were the other way round. Would you be happy to take the foreign wife of a UK-born terrorist, even though she had no other link to this country?
    Hey Phil

    I don't hold the radical views posted re: all forms of retribution, other than an expectation that as an adult woman, she should face the legal processes in this country, should she return as a UK citizen, in line with our laws against terrorism

    Agreed re ; status, hence why I said originally the appeal against Saveed Javed's ruling will in all likelihood be heard and won, though she can claim Dutch citizenship as the spouse? ( I know they don't want her either!)

    Re: Husband-I haven't followed is a closely as you so accept your interpretation and views,

    Yes, I agree, like Holland I probably wouldn't want the foreign wife here

    So its lose, lose, lose all the way around.

    Another post suggested that the costs of this issues shouldn't be considered.....can't agree that this isn't an issue

    Final point on this matter, from me anyway; thanks for not correcting my grammar/typos btw

    The ancient law of treason may be rewritten to make it easier to prosecute returning jihadist fighters and their supporters, the Home Secretary has said.

    Sajid Javid said that the idea of updating 650-year-old legislation to catch more home-grown extremists was “worth looking at carefully”.

    It comes amid concerns that too many jihadists and their brides are escaping prosecution after returning to Britain.

    Ministers are currently examining ways to legally prevent 19-year-old Shamima Begum from finding her way back to the UK after she ran away from her London school to join Isil.



    Doubt this has happened yet? You're the legal eagle on these things

    GL in Vegas sats

    Agree with all that apart from the treason bit.

    We might need new laws. We don't need old ones-there is always a reason they were dropped.

    GL
  • tomgooduntomgoodun Member Posts: 3,753

    tomgoodun said:

    healing process will never made Simply because they are following a ideal set by religion we will alway be the enemy
    i am a realist and it takes bad people to protect =do gooders who think they are helping society her mindset is made and wont change she may saywhat you want to hear but ultimately her beliefs are strong
    its a bit like knife crime they cried fould for stop and search etc pleaded racist and everyone clambered to appease the pc brigade now we have an epidemic
    Same goes to terrorists give them a chance and your breeding the next generation of jihadis when they spread their filth in the uk to naive people helped because eu rules forbid us from kicking them out go figure
    Let her rot there is consequences for actions

    Taking this stance to its logical conclusion, we keep fighting each other, keep killing each other, what’s your projection of the end game? Would it be when all those who get radicalised and those doing the radicalising are wiped off the face of the earth?
    Biggest gun / weapons win?

    Do you think education and love for fellow human is a waste of time?
    Well nothing new there been going on for a couple thousand years

    one thing i will say all you lot giving her a chance who would be happy with her living next door !!!
    “Been going on for a couple thousand years” . Does that not tell you anything? The hate for each other isn’t working...
    Have you ever made a stupid choice in your life? Do you still stand by that choice?
    As mentioned, would be safer with her next door than a lot of places, if indeed she doesn’t go to jail, and have a lengthy de-radicalisation program put in place.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 168,715

    tomgoodun said:

    healing process will never made Simply because they are following a ideal set by religion we will alway be the enemy
    i am a realist and it takes bad people to protect =do gooders who think they are helping society her mindset is made and wont change she may saywhat you want to hear but ultimately her beliefs are strong
    its a bit like knife crime they cried fould for stop and search etc pleaded racist and everyone clambered to appease the pc brigade now we have an epidemic
    Same goes to terrorists give them a chance and your breeding the next generation of jihadis when they spread their filth in the uk to naive people helped because eu rules forbid us from kicking them out go figure
    Let her rot there is consequences for actions

    Taking this stance to its logical conclusion, we keep fighting each other, keep killing each other, what’s your projection of the end game? Would it be when all those who get radicalised and those doing the radicalising are wiped off the face of the earth?
    Biggest gun / weapons win?

    Do you think education and love for fellow human is a waste of time?
    Well nothing new there been going on for a couple thousand years

    one thing i will say all you lot giving her a chance who would be happy with her living next door !!!

    Wouldn't it be the best thing ever if we were the generation that stopped that helped to stop that endless circle of violence?

    Animals fight, instinctively, humans can surely do better than that?

    At some point we have to try & stop all this hating & fighting, and if that means we are the first, fine by me.

  • MasoniReefMasoniReef Member Posts: 168
    Tikay10 said:

    tomgoodun said:

    healing process will never made Simply because they are following a ideal set by religion we will alway be the enemy
    i am a realist and it takes bad people to protect =do gooders who think they are helping society her mindset is made and wont change she may saywhat you want to hear but ultimately her beliefs are strong
    its a bit like knife crime they cried fould for stop and search etc pleaded racist and everyone clambered to appease the pc brigade now we have an epidemic
    Same goes to terrorists give them a chance and your breeding the next generation of jihadis when they spread their filth in the uk to naive people helped because eu rules forbid us from kicking them out go figure
    Let her rot there is consequences for actions

    Taking this stance to its logical conclusion, we keep fighting each other, keep killing each other, what’s your projection of the end game? Would it be when all those who get radicalised and those doing the radicalising are wiped off the face of the earth?
    Biggest gun / weapons win?

    Do you think education and love for fellow human is a waste of time?
    Well nothing new there been going on for a couple thousand years

    one thing i will say all you lot giving her a chance who would be happy with her living next door !!!

    Wouldn't it be the best thing ever if we were the generation that stopped that helped to stop that endless circle of violence?

    Animals fight, instinctively, humans can surely do better than that?

    At some point we have to try & stop all this hating & fighting, and if that means we are the first, fine by me.

    id be more concerned about the pollution of the world than stopping hating for the sake of welcoming a terrorist back with open arms

    However Would you have her as a neighbour and be Happy

    it is a typical soft touch approach what has society as it is now zero respect

    NO apex predator in the wild shows mercy ultimately we are still animals show weakness they will pounce



  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 168,715

    Tikay10 said:

    tomgoodun said:

    healing process will never made Simply because they are following a ideal set by religion we will alway be the enemy
    i am a realist and it takes bad people to protect =do gooders who think they are helping society her mindset is made and wont change she may saywhat you want to hear but ultimately her beliefs are strong
    its a bit like knife crime they cried fould for stop and search etc pleaded racist and everyone clambered to appease the pc brigade now we have an epidemic
    Same goes to terrorists give them a chance and your breeding the next generation of jihadis when they spread their filth in the uk to naive people helped because eu rules forbid us from kicking them out go figure
    Let her rot there is consequences for actions

    Taking this stance to its logical conclusion, we keep fighting each other, keep killing each other, what’s your projection of the end game? Would it be when all those who get radicalised and those doing the radicalising are wiped off the face of the earth?
    Biggest gun / weapons win?

    Do you think education and love for fellow human is a waste of time?
    Well nothing new there been going on for a couple thousand years

    one thing i will say all you lot giving her a chance who would be happy with her living next door !!!

    Wouldn't it be the best thing ever if we were the generation that stopped that helped to stop that endless circle of violence?

    Animals fight, instinctively, humans can surely do better than that?

    At some point we have to try & stop all this hating & fighting, and if that means we are the first, fine by me.

    id be more concerned about the pollution of the world than stopping hating for the sake of welcoming a terrorist back with open arms

    However Would you have her as a neighbour and be Happy

    it is a typical soft touch approach what has society as it is now zero respect

    NO apex predator in the wild shows mercy ultimately we are still animals show weakness they will pounce



    Not sure I would label her a "terrorist". Not sure about "open arms" either, she must be subjected to the course of the law.

    Pollution, yes, a terrible thing, but so are the untold number of deaths from terrorism & hate. Neither will go away unless we change our attitudes & approach.

  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,658

    madprof said:

    Essexphil said:

    madprof said:

    madprof said:

    tomgoodun said:

    well anyone who thinks someone who joins a terrorist cell and justifies why they bombed manchester want their head testing you did hear the bit where she showed no remorse and justified bombing manchester right...so you want people like this to come back to the uk potentially radicalise other people or even murder other people in our country all in the name of isis you want your head testing !!!!
    if one person gets murdered would you be prepared to say sorry to the families because you belive they deserve a 2nd chance

    What punishment is appropriate to this woman?

    Conspired against britain for another power safe to say treason would be good hang the **** for me
    No, no speak your mind...don't hold back!
    Sorry, should clarify my position I suppose

    I think she left Britain as an articulate, educated but naive 15 year old...she now wants to return as a woman - who has had more than enough life experiences to enable her to have a more informed view..unfortunately when interviewed, her views on Manchester continued to be biased towards the life she has been living within the ISIS world , by choice!

    The recent interview with her Dutch husband seemed to illustrate that she appears to be still more radical than him!

    Whilst it has no basis in law and I think it will be overturned on appeal, Saveed Javed's decision was the right one for all parties:

    She won't be at risk of her life
    It won't cost the public purse in protection costs
    The political stance sends a message that if you go to support a terrorist regime, you don't deserve to retain your citizenship

    Having said that, she will probably come home, face UK justice and cost the country millions over her lifetime being 'protected'

    She should go to Holland and be with her husband...in jail btw
    Hi Prof.

    There is no natural other home for this woman.

    Her Dutch Husband is seeking to use her as a bargaining chip-unlike her, he is facing likely charges in Syria. He has no doubt killed people fighting for his cause.

    How would we react if it were the other way round. Would you be happy to take the foreign wife of a UK-born terrorist, even though she had no other link to this country?
    Hey Phil

    I don't hold the radical views posted re: all forms of retribution, other than an expectation that as an adult woman, she should face the legal processes in this country, should she return as a UK citizen, in line with our laws against terrorism

    Agreed re ; status, hence why I said originally the appeal against Saveed Javed's ruling will in all likelihood be heard and won, though she can claim Dutch citizenship as the spouse? ( I know they don't want her either!)

    Re: Husband-I haven't followed is a closely as you so accept your interpretation and views,

    Yes, I agree, like Holland I probably wouldn't want the foreign wife here

    So its lose, lose, lose all the way around.

    Another post suggested that the costs of this issues shouldn't be considered.....can't agree that this isn't an issue

    Final point on this matter, from me anyway; thanks for not correcting my grammar/typos btw

    The ancient law of treason may be rewritten to make it easier to prosecute returning jihadist fighters and their supporters, the Home Secretary has said.

    Sajid Javid said that the idea of updating 650-year-old legislation to catch more home-grown extremists was “worth looking at carefully”.

    It comes amid concerns that too many jihadists and their brides are escaping prosecution after returning to Britain.

    Ministers are currently examining ways to legally prevent 19-year-old Shamima Begum from finding her way back to the UK after she ran away from her London school to join Isil.



    Doubt this has happened yet? You're the legal eagle on these things

    GL in Vegas sats

    650 year common law is used in a lot of legal so therefore easy to apply
    everytime folks are arrested and tried in court they have to apply common law
    statutes mean nothing has to be an act of parliment
    650 year old common law?

    Hardly. That period was called the "Dark Ages" because, between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance very few people recorded anything. So, little or no Common Law. Technological advances mean far more cases reported in last 10 years.

    I cannot recall a single case from before 1750. And I have been doing law since I had hair. I do recall a reported case between 2 highwaymen about division of the loot. I only remember it because both sides were hanged. Not likely today.

    A statute IS an Act of Parliament...
  • MasoniReefMasoniReef Member Posts: 168
    when you are charged with any offence everything is contrary to common law


  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,658

    when you are charged with any offence everything is contrary to common law


    No. Common Law is everything that is not a Statute or what is known as "devolved legislation"-Statutory Instruments, EU directives and the like.

    The reason Prosecutors say "and contrary to common law" is to protect themselves in case they have quoted the wrong act or section number, and because there are still a few common law offences left.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,415
    Essexphil said:

    when you are charged with any offence everything is contrary to common law


    No. Common Law is everything that is not a Statute or what is known as "devolved legislation"-Statutory Instruments, EU directives and the like.

    The reason Prosecutors say "and contrary to common law" is to protect themselves in case they have quoted the wrong act or section number, and because there are still a few common law offences left.
    Hence why I defer to you obewan....
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,832
    You asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer. I'm not going to get into a big debate about the rights and wrongs of each others opinions,as has been seen previously on these type of posts. All I will say,is that (in my opinion) anyone who commits an act of terrorism against their home country,where ever and which ever country that may be in,in the world,forfeits any rights to that said country.
  • MasoniReefMasoniReef Member Posts: 168
    i go further make the entire family accountable but im radical :) get popcorn ready hehe
  • tomgooduntomgoodun Member Posts: 3,753
    Maybe when taking away citizenships we could send them all to an island ( you now, a kinda terrorist only island)
    Nothing could possibly go wrong.
  • MasoniReefMasoniReef Member Posts: 168
    Australia sends its refugees to an island dont hear much screaming civil rights there we got a few islands dotted around :)
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036

    Australia sends its refugees to an island dont hear much screaming civil rights there we got a few islands dotted around :)

    Australia has an appalling history of treatment towards certain sections of their society.

  • MasoniReefMasoniReef Member Posts: 168
    true but dare say they don't have same problem with conforming to the PC brigade
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036

    true but dare say they don't have same problem with conforming to the PC brigade

    What does this even mean?
  • MasoniReefMasoniReef Member Posts: 168
    half the problem is in the uk is conforming to people who call racist card everybody too scared to do owt because your called racist if you say anything about jews your zenophobic oh and if you speak like me your classed as a bigot because it does not conform to PC views
    End of the day she joined a terrorist organisation it should be made very hard for her to come back just might make it a deterrent to others
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